secrets of hand shake, hug, hand kissing and social etiquette

[C_T]

its an alpha ego thing the strong grip

of course society is a pecking order, so is the animal kingdom etc

[incognito]

We are animals.

[AndyAmine.]

That is for sure, but we are the only animals that can speak and premeditate things.
I personally feel thats why body language is so important in human interaction, because its transcendent of animal, race, gender, religion, etiquette, custom, tradition, deception etc.

It is what it is and there is no hiding it but because we are so focused on words that we allow ourselfs to be deceived even when the opposite is being presented in front of our eyes.

I often like watching the news with the sound turned off, the words they speak are just noise, you can really see what is happening through the body language they are using.

Edited August 16, 2013 by AndyAmine.

[C_T]

we are the most domesticated animal, absolutely.

[C_T]

i personally hate it... mostly i shake hands through work, they want to thank me for helping them. most are either old or frail or overweigh, but an old dude or a skinny guy, im not gunna do that, i adjust for the person.

i still look them in the eye. i don't see any souls, just people. its ok to look away as long as you come back. certain things can't be said eye to eye all the time...

but.

why we on the old grand pa stories, i have a seriously bad one... mine who died only a few years ago said when he was a boy (not really that long ago thinking about it!), well his father was a keeper of a singleton farm. and some aboriginals stole some milk or some shit. and the men of the farmers from all surrounding farms hunted them down and shot them like wild pigs...

i expect more from humans... especially this is within 70 years... probably within 60 for fucks sake!!!

nowonder aboriginals hate white people, not only do they kill them on site but rape and pillage all they have...

how isn't that genocide? what, you say that was 60-70yrs ago that means nothing?

no, the rest got raped in the church bullshit they got put in, even mothers without husbans were in the same basket, take under the church and used like slaves physically and sexually.

Edited August 16, 2013 by C_T

[paradox]

yeah domesticated primates. the thing is, we've also evolved in some very interesting & sophisticated ways that trump the hundred million year old mammalian hierarchical dominance system.

one look of complete calm that conveys that you couldn't give a damn about their petty mammal head games & that you understand on a very deep level of awareness that all things are equal in the face of the void & it's only the limitations of lower level human perception that cannot perceive this ultimate equality/unity & you love & respect them even though they are a poor stupid monkey, will circumvent the hardest hand squeeze.

they may or may not get it but it can leave people feeling totally absurd in their ego trips.. or they may not get it at all, it makes no difference. you know very clearly that their games are meaningless to you because you understand that it's only mammalian mind games that separate all things, asign hierarchical definitions to them & fabricate realities around those initial delusions. these games are vital to mammalian social politics & so vital to survival but humans, with the most evolved structure ever know on this planet in our heads are lucky enough to have the capacity to understand that these things are just games & the ego's of ourselves & others are ultimately powerless over us at the deepest level.

the alpha hand squeezing primate is insecure, he tries to reassure himself that he is ok by constructing psycho-dramas out of his mammalian instincts & playing them out. it helps him to understand his place in the world & be free of his insecurity, problem is these illusions by their nature are completely unstable & have to be constantly re asserted, such is the way of all things that are purely constructs of the mind. i feel sorry for him because he may never glimpse the higher evolution of his own nervous system that makes human life unique & truly worthwhile. how could you ever feel inferior to such an impoverished person?

[Darklight]

When I moved to the bush from inner city SYD nearly 30 years ago, I absolutely detested the whole blokey hand shaking thing

But very quickly I also learned to detest and avoid the overly familiar oily hug from hippy strangers

I'm not sure whether the whole handshaking ethos has changed, or I have, or both, but I've now learned to respect it as a form of communication which is frequently used to convey respect, goodwill and even an end to a dispute.

Possibly the change is cos there really is less sexism round here than back then, most blokes will automatically offer me a solid handshake on meeting me and many women will too, and there is no slight intended or perceived if I extend my hand first. But also possibly I changed too

Like many forms of communication it is also used by idiots, but there really isn't anything we can do about that unless some govt department authorises the use of tests and licences to confer the right to shake hands according to standard ( that was a joke )

Personally when meeting complete strangers for the first time I'd prefer a brief foray into my personal space that is offered by a handshake, that gives a small insight into someone's personality and intent before we both go back to our own spaces to process the information.

Oddly enough this preference doesn't stop the wet oily hugs from random strangers I have spoken to for five minutes and have no bond with, even when my body language is indicative that I am not welcoming it. For me, unwanted hugs are a form of social dominance as much as poor quality handhakes are for others and the worst ones are also a passive aggressive invitation to escalation of hostility. If someone I don't like is stifling my movement and insisting on hanging on when I am trying to extracate myself, they have no right to be outraged if I tell them to fuck off

Sometimes people do get it wrong for a bunch of reasons, misreading the situation or not having the skills and experience to adapt to a new situation are two prime ones and malice or social engineering are usually way down the list, but are still out there.

I've probably given hugs that were unwelcome, or the wrong handshake at the wrong time, like most of us have, but the beautiful thing about most communication is that there is usually time to rectify that and restore the balance. And hopefully those misreadings are infrequent, or someone would have told me

I'd still give incog a big bear hug if I saw him on the street tho, if he'd let me. Otherwise I'd shake his hand in a girly limpfish jelly way for shits and giggles ;)

Edited August 17, 2013 by Darklight

[Darklight]

we are the most domesticated animal, absolutely.

And the worst behaved..

[Optimystic]

lol theres every range of handshakes here from brotherly to downright ugly

in business times I used to just let the dudes with bigger arms than me win.. shit if its that easy to make them feel strong whatever lol i'd just pretend to try and then i'd start running my mouth ... when they feel good they're much easier to deal with, i like to get straight to business... most everyone here is a sugar coater and I can't stand it all that much but over years of exposure you just learn to go with the flow... traveling up north where ppl are just blunt was like heaven for me except ffor the climate.. though the funny thing was that it was 70's the whole time I was there and it snowed down in texas that week

One thing I think about my charisma is that people read me as an honest straight shooter.. maybe not so much on the internet cause I hardly care what ppl think about me eh, but in person, i've had alot of friends tell me that...

and probably so cause i've never appreciated liars, not even petty liars and sugar coating... it came down to an identity crisis for me several years back but there was alot of religious crap mixed into that , more like rebellion for me eh ..

I drive a few hours away to austin if I want to get hugged alot laff

I agree that it comes down to the point that we are animals... you just never know the pressures one grew up with unless you grew up with them and so I try not to judge but I do have sense lol Im just lucky enough in life that i've been able to mingle with quite alot of different cultures and I can appreciate a little about each of them.. with few exceptions

but yeah we're animals

I know its old but it still makes me laff

[IndianDreaming]

Regardless of the moral/social/ethical/spiritual bonding behind handshakes, I can't help but think of the 'do you wash after you wipe' thread - There were a significant amount of people that don't bother washing their hands even after number 2's... Then you've got the nail biters. I notice the stubbly fingers coming towards me for a grippy shake and wonder 'Are you also a non wiper-washer? and if so, do you have particles in your mouth?' Do I now have particles and spit on me?

I have a secret weapon when it comes to this issue... I'm left handed, so the chance of something from your firm handshake, going in my mouth, is somewhat reduced. The same goes in reverse, so you can thank me later for my innate ability to keep a lot of my dirty habits from passing to you

A few times with the manly handshake - or the deliberate 'I'll squeeze your hand as hard as I can and It'll be really funny people' I have asked to swap hands and squeezed the living shite out of someone's hand till they drop to their knees. The thing is this; I live in a right handed world, and as such, my right hand does get 80+% of the workout that yours does, but my left hand gets 100% from me all the time, you righties use your left hand much less than I use my right. It's not something that many people notice (unless they're a gifted lefty) but if you get the chance, have a squeeze off with a lefty and you'll be less likely to go into the 'I can squeeze harder than you game' at least with your left hand...

(Note: Many hands were harmed in the making of this deduction, if you try this at home, please wipe first)

Edit: Oops, I wrote 'wipe' when I meant 'wash' - eg, do you wash after you wipe...

Edited August 17, 2013 by IndianDreaming

[incognito]

I gots a big big big oily bearish hug for you anytime aly. I miss u dude x

WhA? Don't bother wiping after number twos?

Even the "perfect turd" ( the one that disappears down the s bend without a trace, leaving not a skerick on an exploratory wipe, they sure as hell make my day and worth telling people about) deserve an exploratory wipe. Now I run shoulders with some particularly unsavoury people, but not one person I've met in this life does not wipe their ass. No toilet paper is not an excuse there are a myriad of every day items that can be used as a flush able or therefore disposable ass wipe.

I'm not to fussed when it comes to a dirty hand to shake, I'm not crazy on hygiene, I mean I shower and brush my teeth everyday but a dirty hand is not to be shied from in my books. U can alwaysg just wipe ur hands no your duds and go about your day. I must say one thing that does annoy me are overly hygienic people. There's being clean then there's ring mentally ill.

The squeeze ur hand until ur in pain thing would not be condoned out here and would signify the squeezer as a doichebag and the squeezee I'd say would get away in a court of law for punching him in the left nostril.

I'm not saying I like, it condone this handshaking shenanigans, but whether I like it or not it is a part of my everyday life.

Just to touch on DL's shake hands to end a dispute- it's known here that once u have shaken hands it's OVER.. Full stop- if a person then after the handshake causes more trouble or bitches about the other person involved in the handshake they have really outed themselves to witnesses as a troublemaker and not to be really trusted.

A bet on a handshake MUST be honoured. I would never want to be the person who doesn't honour a handshook bet. I freaking love a bet ill bet on just about anything with mates normally just on lunches/smoko. It's fun and it's bonding.

DL sexism isn't around here as much any more, as there's ALOT of women working in primary industry, it's known that chicks can do as good a job as guys, in fact many employers prefer women in roles of heavy machinery drivers. ALOT Of lady machinery drivers in the harvest industry. The women know the drop on the handshake, I instantly give big respect To a firm handshakin' ladeh- and the guys will all come away saying "yep, she'll shake ur hand and get the job done, she's oright" and will go to lengths to defend her. I think in part it's a persons willingness to stand firm on the ground in a cuture that is a level for all participants. As much as racism still exists out here I don't care of its a Muslim cleric if they are willing to give a firm handshake and put in they would be accepted.

I'm unsure paradox these old boys are cunning as rats and could possibly interpret that as you thinking you are above them

Which would instantly undo any workable rappore.

I'm really just thinking outloud in this thread as my day consists of much of this social dance. ( I work with farmers buying and selling whe at, oats, barley and canola for major Australian grain company- rest of my time is spent in a grain terminal exporting it via train and truck- it's an okay job but EVERYTHING revolves around this social dance- used to do my head in but ive learned how to work it)

And I don't wish to bag my fellow country hicks and hillbillys, I'm sure DL could testify that this pecking order/ heirarchys exist in even the most "ideal" of alternative/hippy areas.

I truly think it's the nature of the beast or the nature of nature itself lol aka the whole "strongest survive" ethos. I really don't think humans are above not beyond the simplest laws of nature that exist.

"Nature rewards courage"

Edited August 18, 2013 by incognito

[Darklight]

its an alpha ego thing the strong grip

Yar, but there are a lot of pseudo alphas out there. There are few things funnier than being on the receiving end of such a grip, and having everyone else in the group look over at you and smile and shake their heads and you know they are thinking " Fuck, that guy just made a giant dickhead of himself hey "

The squeeze ur hand until ur in pain thing would not be condoned out here and would signify the squeezer as a doichebag and the squeezee I'd say would get away in a court of law for punching him in the left nostril.

I haven't seen that, but I'd laugh if I did

 

I think in part it's a persons willingness to stand firm on the ground in a cuture that is a level for all participants. As much as racism still exists out here I don't care of its a Muslim cleric if they are willing to give a firm handshake and put in they would be accepted.

I'm unsure paradox these old boys are cunning as rats and could possibly interpret that as you thinking you are above them

Which would instantly undo any workable rappore.

I'm really just thinking outloud in this thread as my day consists of much of this social dance. ( I work with farmers buying and selling wheat, oats, barley and canola for major Australian grain company- rest of my time is spent in a grain terminal exporting it via train and truck- it's an okay job but EVERYTHING revolves around this social dance- used to do my head in but ive learned how to work it)

And I don't wish to bag my fellow country hicks and hillbillys, I'm sure DL could testify that this pecking order/ heirarchys exist in even the most "ideal" of alternative/hippy areas.

I truly think it's the nature of the beast or the nature of nature itself lol aka the whole "strongest survive" ethos. I really don't think humans are above not beyond the simplest laws of nature that exist.

Am with you amost 100% on this incog, I don't agree with it being 'strongest survive' tho, from what I've seen it's more like a 'how you gunna go here' thing. A misjudged handshake, too overpowering or too weak, is a bad call- a long way from fatal, but needs remedying as it shows a situation which was handled badly somehow. Not a hanging infraction, but you'd watch that person for a bit until they settled down

And no, it's not a 100% level playing field out here in the bush more than anywhere else, but they playing field is considerably more level than in the big smoke. Mostly all you need to do is show up and pitch in to gain status. Vast amounts of cash don't always help out here, as a sole strategy lotsa dosh can give a poor impression- that you are a useless dickhead who will have to be carried and who won't pull your weight

Oh dear gawd yess, the hippie heirachy. It exists. Personified especially by the people who claim to be powerful in dimensions the rest of us are too earthbound to comprehend, while being functionally useless in this particular dimension. Been to more workshops, mostly involving adjectives and thin on nouns. More vegan than thou. Most of the time the reason it isn't spotted early is that it's so pervasive, like fish trying to describe water. Most of the time it's blowins who preach loudly for six months then move back to town- probably the most annoying too. Victimhood is powerful for that lot and you can't trust them til they've stuck it out for six years and piped down

Miss you too matey Bear hugs just get huger for the waiting

Edited August 17, 2013 by Darklight

[paradox]

i'll add that i do have a lot of respect for the whole handshake thing. it can be a good way to make initial contact with someone & it can be a good way to gauge subtle things about people etc & even the hierarchical aspect to it has it's place, we are social primates & that stuff is part of our world whether we like it or not..

but if ego's are clearly involved to a great extent i won't take the bait & play the game.

i will always do my best to recognize the etiquette needed with different kinds of people & i respect that a lot, not that i'm always that good at picking up on it, but i try & i care. as soon as their games become too sad i won't bite though, i will leave them to their own head trip & i have no interest in building rapport with someone on that kind of trip anyway.. i really wouldn't even give it a second thought, i respect them enough to let them take responsibility for their own delusions..

i've worked with quite a few proper old bushy's & i usually end up getting along well with all of them once they've seen me work & gotten to know me a bit & gotten past their initial reservations that i may seem a bit weird or something, but thats true of pretty much all my relationships except the very rare ones where you just seem to get each other straight off the bat.

i only care about the handshake type social interactions enough to not ruffle feathers & be respectful. it's worked for me well enough up to this point. people worth being close to will get to know you for your real self anyway & for all i care anyone else can go cry if they don't like the way i shook their hand. i may re-evaluate that if i lived in the central west & needed to get by in a culture that takes that level of interaction very seriously. i wouldn't change my perspective but i might change my behavior just cause i wouldn't want to cause people to fret unnecessarily.

i know what you're saying incog about them taking it as me thinking i'm above them or something, but my experience is if it's not done with that emotion & theres very little ego involved & you're genuine in your perspective then theres nothing really negative there for people to pick up on. the point is to convey neutral respect for the person while being inwardly detached from the ego games & if you're genuine that comes across not in a threatening way. doesn't always go perfectly though of course