Thelema Posted March 10, 2003 Since this happens to be legal in my state, would anyone have even a little bit of this they would sell to me?? Please send me an email (private messages dont seem to be working at the moment)if you'd like to remain anonymous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest electro Posted March 11, 2003 i would have thought federal analogue law would still hav banned it if yur in oz .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 11, 2003 PM's should be working again. I hope you are right thelema Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted March 11, 2003 There is no federal analogue law in australia. The only analogue law that I know of outside of wA is in the customs act. So i'd like to get it from within OZ [ 11 March 2003, 14:30: Message edited by: Thelema ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest electro Posted March 12, 2003 i stand corrected ... i was under the impression that customs import laws were in line with national laws (not that ive researched it much). As such i would have thought it safe to assume that if something (substance) is illegal to bring in to anywhere in oz, then you could prolly gt busted for having or making it anywhere in oz too..... or would that make too much sence for our government >? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 12, 2003 electro - you're too logical. The law isn't. I believe that the way things work in Oz is to customs schedule it first in an effort to keep it out of the country, then once it becomes available within the country it is usually scheduled by the state. If it is a national problem then it may also become federally controlled. Take ibogaine for example. Very illegal to import, legal to possess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 12, 2003 electro - you're too logical. The law isn't. I believe that the way things work in Oz is to customs schedule it first in an effort to keep it out of the country, then once it becomes available within the country it is usually scheduled by the state. If it is a national problem then it may also become federally controlled. Take ibogaine for example. Very illegal to import, legal to possess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Machine Elf Posted March 15, 2003 Speaking of DMT, I just put up an interview on my site with Dr Rick Strassman (author of "DMT: The Spirit Molecule", if that sort of thing interests you: Conversation on DMT Belfy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted March 17, 2003 That might be an interesting read as ive just started reading that book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Machine Elf Posted March 17, 2003 Hi BM, Let me know what you think about the book, would be interesting to hear your point of view. Tell you what, being a research subject in that study would have been a hella experience. :D Belfy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonnySimulacrum Posted March 17, 2003 D imensional M ystical T ranscendence, what is that [ 17. March 2003, 00:03: Message edited by: RonnySimulacrum ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faustus Posted March 17, 2003 Divine Moments of Truth (shpongle) that book is fantastic, the sections on the pineal gland and endogenous dmt are very interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted March 17, 2003 Here's something I copied from the waka pacha forum about the deterioating Research Chemical Market, I thought it maybe interesting for some of us: (by murple) "I remember the final days of legal GHB, when the quality of the market took a nose dive. Scams became common, and even those places that delivered real stuff often had low quality impure material at outrageous prices. Then there were all the knockoffs such as GVL and 1,4-BD that were put in spiffy bottles like Tranquili-G and Blue Thunder etc. Exploitation became the main theme as GHB got more popular, and then things got REALLY bad as people got desperate to get some GBL before it became illegal. I've long suspected that something similar would happen with the research chemical market before it finally crapped out under oppressive new laws. This seems to be happening now. I've long felt it was important to get some widespread testing of the chemicals on the market. In the past, when there were several very reputable companies around, my main worry was accidental impurities. Now... I wonder if many of the items available are even what they are sold as. When I read reports coming out, I often see alarming discrepancies. Dosages, effects, and trip duration often do not match what they should be based on earlier reports. This may be due to individual variable response, but it may be something more sinister. This is reinforced in my mind by the state of the market. Several chemicals have already been scheduled in the US or are poised to be scheduled any day. Most US based suppliers have closed down (wisely) out of personal legal security concerns, so all the old, first-generation, reliable sources I know of are gone. In one case, one of the earliest pioneers is facing up to 24 years in jail now. Several lesser known vendors have been visited by DEA agents, and one well known supplier in the South-West has been missing for months with no explanation (after his name appeared in a DEA document in the Federal Register in June or July). It is a seller's market. There are many new suppliers overseas... some of these look extremely questionable, to put it mildly. In the case of one supplier in East Asia, they list pretty much half of PIHKAL and TIHKAL in their catalog, and have been known to sell fake 2C-T-7. They're now also actively selling alleged 2C-E which people are buying because people have been wanting it so bad for so long. This company's products seem to be active, but as to what they are, who knows? The 2C-T-7 sure wasn't 2C-T-7. I have a theory, which is based also on a US based vendor... this place listed 4-AcO-DIPT in their catalog when nobody else did. A very in-demand chemical. Somebody who had tried 4-AcO-DIPT before purchased some and tried it... their verdict? Definately NOT 4-AcO-DIPT. His best guess was that this company purchased a bunch of the much cheaper and easily obtained 5-MeO-DIPT and cut it with an inactive powder until the dose range was approximately the same as 4-AcO-DIPT would be. My theory is that many of these scams are buying one or two common research chemicals in bulk and then re-selling them cut and mislabelled as various more exotic or in-demand substances. If sleazebags would sell diphenhydramine in water as a GBL substitute, why not sell 5-MeO-DIPT as 4-AcO-DIPT, or 2C-I as 2C-T-7, etc. It would be very easy, and since the stuff would be active... placebo effect would create different effects in people's minds, and the anomalous results would just get written off with the ever abused mantra "well, everyone reacts differently!" There are still 3 or 4 chemical vendors around the globe which I think are honestly trying to sell the best material they can. The key word there is trying... I don't think any of these places are actually making their own product, and who knows how pure their stuff really is. I'm sure most of the old standby chemicals are fine, but I wonder about some of the more exotic and difficult to obtain ones. I suspect the situation will only get worse. I fully expect these more reputable companies to close down soon under increasing legal fears. I sure as hell would if I were in their shoes... they already have much bigger balls than I do. I commend their bravery in trying to keep bringing these things to people in the face of mounting global persecution by various governments (especially the US government). I hope they all stick it out as long as they can but manage to get out just in time to avoid any personal legal hassles. What worries me is the inevitable rise in various sleazy vendors in 2nd and 3rd World nations selling these things. So far I know of two Second World based vendors (including the one selling the bogus 2C-T-7 and potentially bogus 2C-E). More are soon to follow, and considering the plethora of sleazy Third World online pharmacies, its only a matter of time before we see "Fux-U-Hard Chemz" based out of Somalia or whatnot scanning the index of PIHKAL and sticking "$500 for grams!" next to each chemical name. Some of these may even sell some real products, but... you won't see me buying, I'll say that much! All I can really say is "buyer beware"... we're long past the days where you can trust that the chemical you're buying is what its labelled as. 5 years ago if you bought some DPT off the internet, you could reasonably assume it was really AMT, and probably at least 90% pure. Now? Maybe from a few sources, but for how long? And there's many places, the majority of vendors I'd wager, where you'd be dumb to assume that. "Odorless AMT" ...sure, buddy, that's believable. One gloomy (and hopefully unlikely scenario)... These things ARE sold as poisonous non-consumables. Imagine you are a serial killer... or a rabid "druggie" hater... or, for that matter, a Final Solution style (hopefully renegade) government agent. You're selling them as poisons. You know people will eat/snort/smoke/inject them. How easy it would be to kill hundreds or thousands of people by selling some cheap cyanide for $500 a gram as some exotic 5-Acetoxy-MDMA or whatever. Kill off a bunch of people and get rich in the process! And the best part? Hey, you're SAID they were poisons. You SAID don't eat them. If someone does, you'd have a chance of being convicted of mass murder (assuming you're not working for the government in the first place), but you'd have a damn good shot at getting off. I won't even touch on the possibility of DEA sting/intelligence operations, or I'd be writing all night. If you're still playing around on this market in this twilight era, well... watch yourself. Don't trust anything." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted March 18, 2003 yeah, it would be an even better post if Murple could be bothered to communicate to me privately about which o/seas companies could be trusted, and which not. For instance, is the pool-cleaning man to be trusted? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mesq Posted March 18, 2003 Why would murple communicate reliable sources particularly in the climate he just mentioned?? I think it is safe to say that the well known suppliers are probably long gone... but thats just my 2c [ 18. March 2003, 11:54: Message edited by: Mesqualero ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theobromos Posted March 19, 2003 Perhaps murple, and all the others, could warn of unreliable sources to as many other people as possible so that as few people as possible buy from the rip-off mass-murdering scum. By elimination the others will be reliable or, as yet, unknown. But murple says he doesn't know of anyone and probably is too shy to repeat himself often The future will probably contain a lot of small fly-by-night operations hoping to run too fast for the authorities. And the sophisticated home drug test companies who should be meeting the challenge of worried parents everywhere by providing universal tests that use up as little of Little Johnnie's stash as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mesq Posted March 19, 2003 There are also rumours that a certain pool chemical person recently just fought two court cases and won regarding certain chemicals... this link Is all I have seen regarding that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted March 19, 2003 HGmmm....this sort of gives away his identity... not that it seems to matter much anymore...the corrupt american regime will put him away in the end...but nevertheless he seems trustworthy...we all should support him.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mesq Posted March 19, 2003 Well... as I say I don't know if its true or not.. but I thought that people might be interested Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psycho0 Posted March 19, 2003 i have been speaking to the pool-guy thru email when his site shut down and it's back up now but yes he still seems trustworthy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 20, 2003 To my surprise the brand new Psychedelic Resource list floated into my post box today. It has a research chem section in it, so I don't think we need to be 'that' quiet about them anymore. Theo - you said they have to run fast to avoid the authorities catching up. One of the problems is always to distinguish from people who run fast due to the authorities and those who do so because of their customers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 20, 2003 gomaos - for someone who has no idea about the research chem scene like myself, that link doesn't give anything away. In fact, his story sounds interesting from its legal/social point of view, so if someone could please e-mail me about who this guy is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted March 20, 2003 LAW now the decent folk at AUSTLII have as usual decided indecently to not publish the schedules to the CUSTOMS ACT, the last paragraph of SCHEDULE 9 containing the "analogue clause". However, the best I could find is the following, which should give people a guide as to what research chemicals are legal to import and what are not. A basic guide would be that all phenethylamines(?) are OUT. There appear to be some tryptamine-based research chemicals that might leak through however. Although this link does not provide the full story concerning "analogues", it provides for good reading, NOTE ESPECIALLY section 20. www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/cir1956432/s5.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted March 31, 2003 ~cough~ I hate to reply when I have been the last poster. No-one seems to care in the OZ neo-shaman community about the law - I find this amazing. The law can be a friend to us: we must understand it, and only then can we begin to compensate for it's injustices. I see Santo Daime(in S.America &Europe), UDV in S.America...the Native Peyote Church in the US...even the temple of inner light in New York City. But what do we have in OZ? - : 1)The first nation in the world to ban SD 2)Intolerant religious-sacrement laws borrowed from the UK but culturally less sensitive due to our "western" isolation. 3)Pathetic administration governing the scheduling of substances. Some day, someone will have to fight. I just hope it's not going to be me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
