Looking for the best possible piper sp. Propagation Tek

[Scientician]

I have some nice healthy piper species that some would consider to be quite desirable that I wish to propagate & share around but my own research has left me a bit conflicted on the best methods to use. My prized 3 pipers are P. Methysticum, P. Nigrum & P.Auritum.

Hit me with your success stories to help me decide the best way to proceed.

Peace

[tarenna]

Piper methysticum - division can be really difficult/challenging/prone to failure. Generally need relatively large rhizome section with healthy shoot(s).

P. auritum - piss easy - layer, divide or even put into glass of water.

No experience with P. nigrum - would love to have a go..

[ghosty]

wow, you lot amaze me! great minds seem to think alike. i just got 3 cutting last night that i found to be kadok plant used in thai cooking (a love of mine). i placed them into glass of water till i can find a method. 2 look healthy and one wants to droop =(

should i use rooting compound? place in soil? throw into a humidity chamber? im going to get 3 other of the piper genus over the next week or so. as far as the kava plant goes, i read it must be soaked in weak bleach solution with drops of washing detergent, then into rooting compound, then plant? can somebody please explain to me what is "layering"?

(edit) if i leave in water, should i use an airstone bubbler?

Edited March 2, 2013 by ghosty

[endorfinder]

I just got my first Methysticum, at this point I'll be happy if I can just keep the bastard alive! They can be propagated by stem cuttings as well as division from what I understand, but strike rate is poor.

[kadakuda]

my personal favorite is ground layering. not fast, but you just never see rot unless you are rough. i use this for p. betel, nigrum, auratum, and an unid'd sp. that is like betel but smaller and more ground cover than climber.

whenever i cut fresh and place in water/dirt/cutting medium, i get rot. so when i dont do layering i like to use mid cuts, not tip as they wilt easy, and once most leaves and the stems are cut i leave them out for 30 mins in dark shade but warm dry weather. then i plant them once they have dried up slightly. a sandy mix works well too, just place them so the node is at least half buried in the sandy mix and keep it moist. most of the rot i have seen starts from the cut area of the stem and works up.

if time is no issue, plant you plants in trays and when they stretch just burry a node every few nodes, and they will root in a month usually and you dont need to worry about watering as if it dies it just remains part of the parent plant

[mauve]

For propagating kava, it's usualy done with nodes in sphagnum, here are some interesting pictures in Hawaii:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.380239941986392.101623.173380879338967&type=3

[ghosty]

nice one!

[planthelper]

mauve your links are always awesome!

one node cuttings, in sphagnum, what a way to go.

that methode would probably aswell suit the nigrum.

[Halcyon Daze]

Try this if you like. Place the cutting on top of a sandy propagation mix in a really large container / styro box, and cover over with about 5-10cm organic potting mix ( good quality). The cutting should be protruding by a few centimeters with at least one young tip exposed. Keep it moist and sheltered. This is how most seem to grow in nature and I've seen a hell of a lot of Piperaceae in PNG. They seem to love that moist organic layer above a free-draining soil.

It's my own method, it worked well for Philodendrons, Pararistolochias and worked a treat for the native giant peppervine - Piper novae-hollandiae.

I'll get a pic tomorrow.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Halcyon Daze

[Halcyon Daze]

Both of these are ready to plant out. The first is Piper novae-hollandiae, the second is Rhaphidophora australasica (a native relative of Monstera deliciosa).

You can see just how much space is left in the pots now that all the much and organic mix has rotted away. The pots were full to the top a couple years ago, obviously they've been neglected for a while.

I think what I'm getting at with this method is that the main green stems of these vines don't really like to be buried under sand, they much prefer being buried under a layer of organic material, while their actual roots will love the access to the sandy mix below. (this is more applicable to the tropical rainforest types and not really applicable to Kava)

I found the exact same principle applies to monstera deliciosa. I place the cutting directly on the ground and then heap it over with well decomposed mulch, and hey presto, the cutting thrives. Burying the green stem under the dirt results in a plant that takes a couple of years to get going again.

Also selecting the right cutting is essential. Try to get a cutting that has a thick stem and a young growing shoot somewhere on it, and very importantly, select a cutting that already has some signs of root growth at the nodes. Many of these tropical vines do it and pipers are no exception. Those tiny root tips make all the difference.

and by the way I'm in QLD now not Tas so ignore my location that said Tas

[planthelper]

i like your coffee mug for scale!

the kava and the pepper, both hate potting mix which stays wet, the sand and organic on top, and the sphagnum moss methode both would provide a good enviroment, regarding there requirements.

my mate has got a pepper plant, might take a cutting today, and experiment.

[endorfinder]

great tips guys.. don't suppose anyone's tried air layering kava then? seems an even more gentle option for young plants.

i'm worried my plant won't survive the shock from shipping... it was held up on road freight by the floods and almost died :/ will post some pics tonight if it's not looking any better... maybe i need to change the media but i've already potted her up into much sandier better draining soil and am loathe to touch her again

black spots turning into holes through the leaves before they wilt off entirely, but hopefully it's just transport damage and the plant's recovering. we've had decent rain and humidity lately so by all rights she should grow!!

[Scientician]

Thanks for the help guys. I'm definitely getting a clearer picture on the sort of conditions piper sp. need for propagation. I have made the descision to use the sphagnum method as the consensus seems to be leaning in this direction. I will report back with my progress (Win or Lose).

Cheers

[whitewind]

I have propped macropiper excelsum from layerings similar to halcyon daze, they were very slow and prone to rot - seed is much better from woodier species like this, but it is possible so aerial layers might be better so the mother plant can keep feeding the propagule. Vining pipers will often trail along the ground and produce roots at every node which can then be cut off and potted on. I think kava will do best from robust divisions (cut back hard after dividing but leave some leaves on) though I would love to get some seed and do some trials to get new strains growing. There are a few different forms around so I assume this is possible, unless they are natural mutations divided from an original, sterile parent (rather like most bamboo cultivars which flower once every 80 to 100 years or so). I have a cutting of a woody piper that was considered dead for two years or more, woody stem lay dormant in the soil for all this time, and piper auritum used to due back to the ground every winter in the blue mountains but kept coming back in spring, so older plants can be quite resilient

[endorfinder]

I think my kava is gonna die after spending 5 days in transit it never recovered :/

I'll be chopping it up to try and root some nodes later in the day sadly Not even worth posting pictures, the poor guy is waaay past saving.

[briliant_botanist]

it may be possible to revive some of the plant material via cloning {clonex} hormone gel?

[planthelper]

from whom did you buy your kava?

it's not so much transit, i think the grower takes them out of the hothouse into the package, no hardening out taking place. it's the same as one would remove freshly rooted cuttings, out of the humidety chamber straight into the packaging.

they are humidety addicts and will not survive any long periode after being removed from the hot house.

i recived once kava, which was kept outdoors, and it went well through transit.

i think i know who you got it from, he always blames transit, but i think he never hardens them out....

Edited March 8, 2013 by planthelper

[endorfinder]

It's the vendor that you didn't supply propagation material to. Yes I'm starting to suspect it wasn't hardened off either, given that it took a week of gradual decline AFTER arrival for the plant to look really sad.

Do you think taking nodes and trying to grow more as shown on the page mauve linked the other day is my best bet right now, as bb said?

It seems weird that the 70% humidity we've had lately wasn't enough for it :/

[planthelper]

i think once the plant has been shocked, it will not much recover, quickly.

once or twice, when i was hardening out various cuttings, i forgot to put the lid back on (normaly i only open the lid a little bit), and none of the plants recovered, even if the lid was put back in place, the next day.

herbalistics, would never do such a mistake, madragora is one of the best probagators i'v ever met!

sure try to take thos cuttings, as pictured above, btw my kava plant is looking slightly better now, but has miles to go yet...

my kava plant came aswell with mites, and root rot.

he said he would send me a replacement, but never did.

Edited March 8, 2013 by planthelper

[endorfinder]

oh wow so yours survived it's near-death-experience? that's great news