Fire safe cigarettes

[Sallubrious]

I've smoked on and off for many years but I gave up when I found out my Mrs was up the duff. I've been smoking a bit again in the last few months. Last weekend I was at the pub with a few mates and I was looking at a pack of cigs my mate had left of on a table and I noticed a disclaimer on the back of the pack at the bottom

AUSTRALIAN FIRE RISK STANDARD COMPLIANT

This was not on the packets before so I asked my mate what it meant and he had no idea. I asked a few other people if I could have a look at their packet and they all had the same disclaimer on the packet and no-one had any idea what it meant.

The next day I did a bit of digging and I found out that Australian cigarettes have had to be fire safe compliant since the 23rd of march 2010.

The idea is that cigarettes have to have some means of self extinguishing so they (supposedly) have a reduced risk of starting a fire if left unattended or dropped etc.

So I looked into how they implement this feature.

It turns out that there several ways they can do it which from what I can ascertain always involves the use of chemicals impregnated into the paper that the cigarettes are rolled in.

The most common being ethylene vinyl acetate which is also a common industrial adhesive, sealant and sometimes used as carpet glue, there are also several other chemicals used to achieve this self extinguishing effect.

So now we have the ludicrous situation where cigarettes contain chemicals to make them burn faster (burn accelerators) and chemicals to make them go out.

After smoking these cigarettes many people complain of a metallic taste in their mouth, chest pains or they just feel sick (which is otherwise uncommon for experienced smokers)

I've searched the web and I cannot find one study that proves that inhaling the fumes from combusted ethylene vinyl acetate is safe in rats, mice or humans. I can't even find any studies that have evaluated the dangers of inhaling these toxic fumes.

Wikipedia has stated that

Results of tests conducted on rodents show the risks associated with 'Ethylene Vinyl Acetate copolymer emulsion based adhesive' include triggering the cellular proliferation necessary for tumor development

Wiki provides a numbered link to a source of reference(4), clicking on that source gives a 404 error - file or directory not found. Several other links to sources of reference on the Wiki page were also dead ends.

If anyone with a background in chemistry reads this and has an idea of the compounds produced and the toxicity thereof when ethylene vinyl acetate is combusted I'd be interested to know.

Most of this seems to driven by insurance companies,lawyers and the tobacco industry trying to insulate itself from liability. Tobacco companies have established programs that fund fire departments worldwide to push this legislation and give it weight. So as a result result fire departments worldwide have been bribed to persuade legislators to insulate themselves (big Tobacco) from liability.

[applesnail]

vinyl acetate is listed as a lung irritant, ive the same thoughts and symptoms and done alittle research on this myself...there defiantly poisoning us with this additive and using the fire safety as an excuse to cover it up.im alittle to tired and hungover tonight to clarify more on this subject but your onto it..im a heavy smoker and can taste the glue congesting me....even the cigarette butts now seem to burn catch fire the filters more often, i have noticed which releases a super noxious smoke..they often catch light in my ashtray this never use to happen with my ciggas.

http://www.sciencela...?msdsId=9927644

Edited November 16, 2012 by applesnail

[Foo]

This half blew my mind. I was unaware of the chnage, but have noticed a slight change in taste over the last few years. Also my lungs etc have gotten ALOT worse in the last 2 years even though i havent altered my intake for over 5 years.

I have also noticed the ashtray fire that apple talks about above, something that was rare before and now common place. Edit not sure if this fits the exact time frame or not.

im tripping right? ...

Edited November 16, 2012 by eatfoo

[quarterflesh]

I agree, ciggies just dont taste the same anymore. still hard to quit even though its tastes like shit.

[Shamanistic]

I smoke cigarettes very rarely and when I do I never notice any adverse effects but the other night I had one. A bit later in the night I had really bad chest pain, had a slight fever and felt like I was getting the flu. I'm not positive that it was the cigarette that did it but it was the only thing I can think of that I did differently to every other day. You just don't know what chemicals your smoking in cigarettes these days, everyone would be much better off growing their own tobacco plants..but then the government can't tax you and big tobacco can't make their profits so instead you get your tobacco infused with a crazy concoction of chemicals to do a wide range of things but most importantly addictive substances are infused in the tobacco to make it more addictive than normal. Seems healthier to smoke some bud grown by some dodgy drug dealer sprayed with shit to make it weigh more, you're probably getting less chemicals than you would with tobacco anyway.

[Bigred]

keep it green its the only way to go

[dionysus]

as a regular, and somewhat heavy, rolley smoker, after an irregular night on the taylor mades i sometimes find myself dry-reaching after a cigerette or with a weird tingling sensation in extremities, especially fingers and hands, vageuly reminiscent of a time i think i experienced minor methanol poisoning from home made liquor. i can't think what else these things would be due to, have relatively recently started happening, and don't occur if the same tobacco is just used as spin.

dio

edit: it just occured to me the 'spin' phenomenon could be due to other components anti nauseating effects.

Edited November 17, 2012 by dionysus

[applesnail]

Health Hazard

Vinyl acetate has been related to reproductive abnormalities. It is a skin and upper respiratory tract irritant and a central nervous system depressant. Exposure caused gradual deterioration of heart muscles. Fire Hazard

When heated to decomposition, Vinyl acetate burns and emits acrid fumes. Highly dangerous when exposed to heat, flames or oxidizers; explosion hazard with strong acids and strong oxidizers.

http://www.chemicalb...N_CB7852732.htm

"Highly dangerous when exposed to heat" thats a worry when one needs a flame to light there cigga, good thing im immune to highly dangerous, and will now wear my hard hat while i have a cigga! I need PPE and worksafe ticket to have a cigga now....

Edited November 17, 2012 by applesnail

[qualia]

and this shit's fuckin legal,

[Sallubrious]

Dionysus - maybe you don't notice when it's used as spin because you're not using the paper, the most common way to make taylors fire safe is to impregnate the chemical between layers of paper.

Needless to say I only smoke rollies now too, I use a brand that is supposedly additive free.

Thanks for the links Applesnail that's the sort stuff I was after.

I think basic human instinct tells us when something is no good for us a lot of the time, I'm yet to find anyone that likes the smell of burning plastic

[bogfrog]

Yuck, thats some very valuable info you brought to our attention SallyD, so thank you.

I don't smoke any more but i can remember the day i decided to quit because my ciggy truly tasted like a mixture of burnt hair, bleach and metal..

I asked a mate today if i could check out his ciggies, we don't seem to have any fire-proof labelling, but if you say you only just noticed the stickers and the law has been in place since march,

then i wouldn't be surprised if this isn't confined to just Australia.

Blue zigzags are meant to have similar stuff in them too.

[poisonshroom]

I too have noticed a change in taste and subjective effects from cigarettes over the last couple of years. I have smoked cigarettes for about 5 years, with a steady increase in the amount i smoke over the years. I normally smoke rollies (which iv also noticed a change in how well they burn and the taste), but on the occasions i smoke tailors i notice the smell of burning plastic (regualr tailor smokers dont seem to notice it oddly enough) and iv also experienced chest pain and the flu-like symptoms/feverish feeling from smoking tailors (especially when i smoke too many - rollies dont seem to do it as much). Iv also noticed the flaming ashtray phenomenon a lot lately too when in the past the only time it happened was when it was intentional. Also the plain packaging is a bit concerning too because even the cigarettes look different and have generic numbers and letter instead of a logo or something, and a few people i know have noticed a difference in taste between plain packaged tailors and pre-plain packaging ones

Edit: maybe its time to quit (or go somewhere where its legal to grow your own) - if i quit now though, to the government itll look like plain packaging did it (in case you cant tell i think PP is complete BS lol, but thays a different matter)

Edited November 17, 2012 by poisonshroom

[Alice]

Health Hazard

Vinyl acetate has been related to reproductive abnormalities. It is a skin and upper respiratory tract irritant and a central nervous system depressant. Exposure caused gradual deterioration of heart muscles. Fire Hazard

When heated to decomposition, Vinyl acetate burns and emits acrid fumes. Highly dangerous when exposed to heat, flames or oxidizers; explosion hazard with strong acids and strong oxidizers.

http://www.chemicalb...N_CB7852732.htm

"Highly dangerous when exposed to heat" thats a worry when one needs a flame to light there cigga, good thing im immune to highly dangerous, and will now wear my hard hat while i have a cigga! I need PPE and worksafe ticket to have a cigga now....

 

Vinyl acetate and ethylene-vinyl acetate are different compounds. Vinyl acetate is a small molecule, which is "Highly dangerous when exposed to heat" because it is very flammable. However it is generally considered to be not harmful to humans. Ethylene vinyl acetate is a copolymer, i.e. a plastic. Now this sounds even worse because who want's to smoke plastic? I would be far more concerned with the other combustion products of your cigarettes than with EVA.

Burning EVA is unlikely to produce the usual nasties associated with burning plastic, like dioxins, because EVA isn't chlorinated.

But who knows hey, it's being burned in the presence of hundreds of other compounds so the reaction products are anyones guess.

[goneski]

I've noticed the taste of taylor made cigarettes get progressively worse over the last few years. I've recently just switched back to rollies and they taste much 'cleaner'.

Am I imagining it.. or..?

Either way, it's nice to be able to roll a cigarette, and not taste like I'm inhaling hairspray or whatever.

[Sallubrious]

I'll give you one of the ones I've been making at the meet if you decide to come.

They're nothing like the tailor mades.

[Bigred]

i just went out and bought this awesome cigarette rolling machine works great but the empty cigarettes seem to have be much cleaner

as compared to the paper used to make store bought taylors

[Sallubrious]

I'm not sure I get what you mean bigred.

Do you mean the papers are burning with a different taste or is it the way they look.

I tried hemp papers for rollies and they didn't smell or taste much at all, but they did stain when they burned.

Are you using one of those handheld machines with a plastic belt wrapped around 2 rollers or one like the one I posted about in a thread today.http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34167

I contacted the retailer of the tubes for the one it that thread and he told me they don't have any fire safe or other additives. Another seller didn't know and said he'd contact the manufacturer but he hasn't contacted me with an answer so far.

[Thelema]

ventti have just started advertising their "slow burn papers". I couldn't glean from this whether the insinuation was that their normal papers were now "slow burn" or whether there's some other "slow burn" rolly paper product. maybe rolly paper manufacturers have altered their formula too.

In which case it makes no difference what you smoke.

[waterboy 2.0]

lol....ciggies seem to burn right down now and into the filters even easier since going to plain packaging. I also think my poison brand of choice tastes different.

I'm predicting more fires from fuckwits throwing butts out the car window.