Aliens, Nuclear weapons and take overs

[PsillyBean]

This is a drawn out wild theory but its also a bit of fun.

Imagine that we are possibly not alone as an inteligent race in the cosmos. (something i love to imagine)

Now could we also possibly imagine that our governments know this, even to the point of having had communications with these numerous life forms.

Now lets also imagine that some of these life forms posed a threat through suggestion or action.

How may we as a race guard our planet from possible take over?

My only thought is that we have already amassed enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet many times over. Could this be our only defence against hostile takeover? Kinda like our planets hidden ace, a bluff it may be, but still. I can think of no other reasonable use for such weapons.

Peace

[qualia]

our government? no (i mean, look at them. you really think they have knowledge of intelligent life?)

i'm not closed to the possibility of intelligent life having contacted the earth, but given the distances involved and the seemingly rare occurrence of life forming planets (or perhaps better: complex/intelligent life (microbes most definitely)), then the chances are minimal. but knowing our species, any contact would be along the lines of shoot first ask questions later. as far as defending ourselves goes, well, imagine any threat to our planet would come in the form of space attack, and if it comes down to a "whos gun is biggest" type scenario, i'm sure if aliens have mastered space travel then they've got some serious weaponry behind them. even if we did fire off a few nukes and take out a few spaceships the aliens would probably beam down an armada of flesh eating nano-bot that target specifically human dna and eats us all lol.

[qwertyuiop]

Personally I'd welcome our new alien overlords. I also enjoy getting lost in thought trying to imagine how an entirely different planet could have its own natural selection procedure due to its differing challenges. I mean god damn... If we've evolved to be able dream, to have become biological computers. Then what the hell else is capable of existence in this universe...

p.s because you've made me realize I enjoying typing as I think about all this;

My Super simplified theory of almost everything is. With Quantum Physics: "Virtual' particles appear out of the 'nothingness' of the vacuum and disappear back into it again after such a very short time in existence" ...This is like the 1's and 0's of binary. The Infinite capabilities with the binary system means the universe eventually goes through every single 1/0 combination possible. This in turn creates eventually bio computers (us, our brains)...that eventually create computers...That we can make computers inside of (prog langs) ...and even simple computers as in mine craft red circuitry. The universe I suppose is created by another more complex 'computer' ...and the one above that etc.? I HOPE its some sort of deity but I've not got a lot of faith in that. Although its nice that it miiiiigghhhttt be the scenario at hand..Like it hasn't been conclusively proved otherwise.

sorry for talking so much shit. haha

[∂an]

How may we as a race guard our planet from possible take over?

 

Perhaps by seeking to live in true symbiosis with the biosphere around us. I would like to think that an alien race that had the technology to traverse the universe would have morals and ethics of a similar level of sophistication. So therefore aliens that arrive in parking orbit around earth will probably less likely to exterminate us if they can see we are making a conscious effort to support the program of life on our little planet.

My only thought is that we have already amassed enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet many times over. Could this be our only defence against hostile takeover? Kinda like our planets hidden ace, a bluff it may be, but still. I can think of no other reasonable use for such weapons.

 

Maybe nuclear weapons would have a use in destroying an incoming asteroid that threatens to impact Earth. But even this is uncertain as more subtle 'nudging' methods may be more effective, and nuclear detonations aren't even that effective in space due to the vacuum (we would have to plant the device deep inside the asteroid so it had some matter surrounding it to affect).

The best use for our nuclear weapons stockpile, in my mind, would be to dismantle the warheads and use the uranium and plutonium for energy production and use the rockets to send science experiments or satellites into low earth orbit.

[PsillyBean]

Got carried away.....

qualia, Agreed regarding our government. WTF! When was the last time they did something that you agreed with and where proud of, personally its been a while!?

Your comment about distances and chances of inteligent life also made me think. You mentioned a minimal chance. If I where making a bet on inteligent life existing with the odds being minimal:infinite. I would make that bet! :D

LUWA, I love this "If we've evolved to be able dream, to have become biological computers. Then what the hell else is capable of existence in this universe..."

Keep talking, its not shit.

kalika, I truly hope we are seen in the way you describe, i wish it.

Nuclear power is a scary thought for me. The possible outcomes do not outway the immediate needs in my opinion. Your location says Germany, didnt they recently decommision there power plants?

Hehe I did say it was a far out idea.

I obviously think slightly of centre, as It was more of the idea that humans have the potential to end not only themselves but pretty much every living thing on the planet. I dont know literally how much damage could be done, but maybe even further to the point of breaking the planet itself.

This fact could possibly be a deterent from invasion in itself. Now that I think about it, Its more likely that we would not be contacted by intelligent life for that exact same reason. Our destructive nature as a species would be enough to make me want to back the ship up, so a more developed race would surely just fly on by.

The original thought was like a bully trying to take a smaller kids lunch, but this particular lunch happens to be able to feed all the bullys friends and family for the next million years and there are only a few of these particular hospitable lunches (planets) around. So the smaller kid threatens to spit on it and throw it on the ground( ie Destroy the planet) in an attempt to keep his lunch. Would the bully back away or wait for another day?

I wish the thought had more substance or logic to it, but thats what it was.

Holy crap, thats alota words.

Edited September 4, 2011 by PsillyBean

[ThunderIdeal]

well, some interesting conversation, but they don't reckon the nuclear arsenal is all that bad. yeah, it could wipe out a lot of humans and natural areas, but it's not enough to wipe out humanity and probably not enough to damage the planet itself or it's orbit.

if there are advanced warlike aliens then we just better hope they don't find us, although we haven't thought about that one have we, for the last century we have been not only advertising our presence, but transmitting all kinds of information about ourselves.

meh, spacegoing aliens VS humans would be like a modern earth military VS a couple of injured possums.

[qualia]

Your comment about distances and chances of inteligent life also made me think. You mentioned a minimal chance. If I where making a bet on inteligent life existing with the odds being minimal:infinite. I would make that bet! :D

i meant intelligent life visiting earth. given the distances involved even in our galaxy it's a remote possibility that it's happened. intelligent life other than our own exists for sure. but how and in what form is still a mystery.

[ThunderIdeal]

distance may, or may not be, as much of a limitation as we think it is.

anyone played the game spore? you are roaming the planes as a communal species when a vehicle randomly flies over your head abducting creatures and placing monoliths (the creatures are collected to populate their newly terraformed planets). when your species joins the space community, you can do the same, pretty much doing whatever the hell pleases you to countless puny civilisations or life forms, you can speed up their evolution, or just fuck with them.

one wonders then, do different alien species have vastly different agendas? what kind of shit are aliens up to, what defines success for spacegoing races, maybe conquering planets or growing colonies doesn't even rank as child's play in the scheme of things. i assume high on the list is the development of science and technology, arts, hedonistic persuits, integrity and stability as a space nation (or whatever structure you follow).

when i say science and technology, i tend to think that our perception of supreme technology might get a belly laugh from a creature that actually has supreme technology. not that i am having a go at human scientists, they are new at the game and i just think a few hundred years of science doesn't scratch the surface when other species have been studying the universe for millions of years or are possibly for longer than the universe has been around, and in the big picture concepts like time and distance might be irrelevant.

[niggles]

Qualia - unrelated to the thread, but I just googled your signature quote on a whim and Im not yet done gut laughing!

Edited September 6, 2011 by niggles

[ethnodude]

Let the boat people in I say. I welcome the light ships as any change to current planetary control systems is for the best. Its as if government had to push us to such extremes in order to become ready for the rapid global change that is occurring. Habit and novelty if you will.

The question is would you trust the first ship to reveal itself and take the opportunity to go on board if given the opportunity? Given that the gov has holographic projection tools, which can create the illusion of light ships. I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I feel the time is not too far off. My intuition is to follow my first intuition whether its right to leave earth if the option presents.

[CβL]

First of all - if they can get here - we have already lost if that's the game they are playing.

Secondly, it's possible for these aliens to be far less intelligent, but far more destructive than anything we can imagine. A limit of this might be a stable(ish) quark structure which can replicate itself from contact with ordinary matter. I'm by no means certain, but a nanobot I would imagine to have some potentially exploitable limitations (matter structures manipulating matter structures seems like it would be limiting somehow) which we could use to prevent them taking over every single thing. Maybe we could have a single safe room from which we can take back the planet from.

I think the only way our race can avoid a hostile take-over is to run. ^^

[devance]

inteligent =intelligent varies.

Better hope so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence

[Slybacon]

Who says aliens have to come from space. The ones I have met are not from outer space.

[dollarjuice]

They say that if aliens were to attack Earth it wouldn't be like "guns vs laserbeams"

The theory is it'd be more like sponges vs nukes. (obviously as a comparison, our literal nukes being the equivalent of sponges to whatever their weaponry)

[qwertyuiop]

^ Or we can hope that they're simply travelling nomads lacking weaponry due to their peaceful nature that allowed them to progress to the stage that they have, rather than quarrel with their own kind etc. causing themselves to go backwards...

Although re thinking that, and on the polar opposite I guess it's likely that weaponry would be a highly developed thing. From the earth's example, many of our inventions and scientific advancements come about during war time...So perhaps for another race to be so advanced for space travel they may, or are likely too, have a extensive history of war/weaponry/take over tactics. Just a thought.

edited, hellz yea.

Edited September 12, 2011 by LUWA

[devance]

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-world-largest-fusion-device.html

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-08-probe-uncover-mechanisms-key-fusion.html

Fusion power is the attempt to mirror the process of energy release when light atomic nuclei fuse together to form heavier atoms. This process takes place in stars; scientists hope that it can be replicated in fusion power plants on Earth. In a fusion reactor, nuclei of hydrogen isotopes, deuterium and tritium fuse at high temperatures and produce helium and high-energy neutrons. A commercial power station would use the heat generated by the neutrons when slowed down by denser material, to generate electricity. In addition, fusion reactions take place when temperatures exceed 100 million degrees.

Scientists claim the fusion power process produces no greenhouse gases or long-lived radioactive waste.

JET, which is kept at the Culham Centre for Fusion Energy in the United Kingdom, is the only machine capable of operating with the deuterium-tritium fuel mixture that will be used in ITER and commercial fusion power stations.

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What happens if it blows up at fusion reactions temperature when temperatures exceed 100 million degrees and the magnetic field is the weak point.

Edited September 14, 2011 by devance

[devance]

http://www.jet.efda.org/jet/europe-participates/uk/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204575039330758722368.html

http://edinburgh.academia.edu/ThomasEdwards/Papers/310629/Optimising_a_Fluid_Plasma_Turbulence_Simulation_on_Modern_High_Performance_Computers