The rape of men

[incognito]

i LOVE you, the one and only Darklight

you little boys better do your research whilst this finest of women is around

[Darklight]

Hey incog I was hoping you'd wade in here and I checked the thread because I saw you and now I am all embarrassed

You are totally the sort of person I love discussing this sort of stuff with and I respect your opinion and experience enormously

[incognito]

dont be embarrased i think you rock the cashbar

Edited August 7, 2011 by incognito

[Mycot]

Quite an outburst there Darklight. I only wish that it less resemballed that which militant feminists are prone to making.

My position is actually closer in line to what FancyPants expressed.

On the subject of work when was the last time you saw a team of women erect a large building. I've seen a teams of men do this many a time. And the men would get the job done in half the time because they are physically stronger on average. Because of the greater physical strength men are able to outperform women in a great many labor activities.

I'm not saying that all feminist thought is bad. What I am rebelling against is the unquestioning acceptance of everything issuing from the feminist camp.

Personally I feel that feminism would do well to rediscover femininity.

And Incognito you may have misunderstood me, I'm not really against women per se.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Mycot

[Darklight]

Quite an outburst there Darklight. I only wish that it less resemballed that which militant feminists are prone to making.

Oh. Do you find women often make fun of you then? When they do, do you need to justify it by accusing them of being politically hostile to men generally? And why is it that you think I would find the term feminist a pejorative?

My position is actually closer in line to what FancyPants expressed.

In order to be better understood you could learn to express yourself more clearly. Nothing I have read from you on the subject of gender interactions has suggested this until now

On the subject of work when was the last time you saw a team of women erect a large building. I've seen a teams of men do this many a time. And the men would get the job done in half the time because they are physically stronger on average. Because of the greater physical strength men are able to outperform women in a great many labor activities.

I do think this is the current situation. It is one of the more rapidly changing aspects of society and in most cases a direct result of increased mechanisation and technological advance. I don't think gender imbalance in trades will persist. And I think this is a good thing. Most people I know want to work with the cleverest people with the best attitude and don't care whether they're chicks or blokes

I have seen women build and build well. Sometimes with blokes chipping in. So yeah, I do like your comment about physical strength 'on average'.Go to any good gym and you'll definitely see that the gender gap for physical strength and agility is closing and closing fast. I can't predict it will close completely, I believe there will always be outliers at either end of the curve. But I do know that, as an example, women who stand round simpering waiting for some bloke to change a flat tyre these days or put water in the radiator are held in increasing contempt as we are expected to step up and do what we can. And I also think that this is a good thing

I'm not saying that all feminist thought is bad. What I am rebelling against is the unquestioning acceptance of everything issuing from the feminist camp.

For the purposes of the exercise I am reclaiming the term feminist. Why do you think that there is a single, united feminist camp? Isn't this as ridiculous and tinfoil hat as people saying years ago that all male thought was patriarchal and therefore negative? There are as many ways of perceiving and discussing gender equality issues as there are ways of being tall, or heterosexual, or right-wing

Personally I feel that feminism would do well to rediscover femininity.

You're entitled to your ill-formed opinion of course, but you have a weird and very skewed idea of feminism. I suggest you have a look round at some of the pro-sex ( yes that's the name ) feminist literature. Another school of thought. Fascinating and luscious and hotly debated, if you'll excuse the pun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

Edited to add wiki link and clarify some stuff

Edited August 7, 2011 by Darklight

[Darklight]

Just wondering, did you intentionally misrepresent the document you quoted?

A Quote from Why Psychologically Men Don't Exist - UN Documentation

This is an opinion piece on a conspiracy website. While the points themselves are open to scrutiny, the link you pointed at is definitely *not* a UN document even though your link description implies it

[Darklight]

i wouldnt listen to him anymore

 

I got inspired by EG's moderating style the other day and decided I could well learn something by being polite and listening

Besides, leaving those sorts of remarks unchallenged so often gives the impression that this forum is sexist, and unsupporting and unwelcoming to women. I don't believe this is the case

[Mycot]

In order to be better understood you could learn to express yourself more clearly. Nothing I have read from you on the subject of gender interactions has suggested this until now.

 

Other than my last post I really haven't said much on the subject in this forum as yet.

For those interested in "Roissy in DC" I found a link to archived material through the Wayback Machine Here

[incognito]

i apologise mycot for my remark wholeheartedly.

its just that im this strong womans numero uno fan

Edited August 7, 2011 by incognito

[Mycot]

Apology accepted.

[Darklight]

One of the things I love about you incog is you think about stuff from lots of different angles, you're gutsy and passionate about what you believe, and if you believe you were wrong you have no problem with a sincere apology

Maybe we should take the mutual appreciation thing to PM and let the thread get back on track tho?

[tripsis]

Let me just say...

...I, too, love you Darklight.

[bℓσωηG]

Im sure if women had a PENIS they would be far more understanding its not a walk in the park you know , just like de ladies have their period each month , i believe men have a sperm release which which is needing release each month at least ffs...but noooo... thats what hands are for ....have you any idea what constant wanking does to ones self esteem? fuck that , damn incog i knew you were a chick

Edited August 7, 2011 by bℓσωηG

[Mycot]

I do think this is the current situation. It is one of the more rapidly changing aspects of society and in most cases a direct result of increased mechanisation and technological advance. I don't think gender imbalance in trades will persist. And I think this is a good thing. Most people I know want to work with the cleverest people with the best attitude and don't care whether they're chicks or blokes

I have seen women build and build well. Sometimes with blokes chipping in. So yeah, I do like your comment about physical strength 'on average'.Go to any good gym and you'll definitely see that the gender gap for physical strength and agility is closing and closing fast. I can't predict it will close completely, I believe there will always be outliers at either end of the curve. But I do know that, as an example, women who stand round simpering waiting for some bloke to change a flat tyre these days or put water in the radiator are held in increasing contempt as we are expected to step up and do what we can. And I also think that this is a good thing

 

While I can appeciate some of your finer points here, to attempt to eridicate imbalances in many of these areas is very misguided. Men and women naturally have strengths in different areas through biology and evolution and function best when they best utilize these strengths. Hopefully they can do it together.

For the purposes of the exercise I am reclaiming the term feminist. Why do you think that there is a single, united feminist camp? Isn't this as ridiculous and tinfoil hat as people saying years ago that all male thought was patriarchal and therefore negative? There are as many ways of perceiving and discussing gender equality issues as there are ways of being tall, or heterosexual, or right-wing

 

No I don't think there is agreement between all feminists on all issues. When we talk about the feminist movement we're often talking about a body of political thinking that is associated with the term. Much of this has assumed the form of an ideology, a creed, a set of beleifs that shares more similarity to a religion than independant thinking. Hence it can be unattractive.

In it's political sense there has been much focus on women climbing financial ladders and assuming male roles(why the hell would they want to do that ). For reasons I have outlined above this is misguided. Merely climbing the ladder in a patriarchal system simply strengthens that system because of the support for that system.

I say tear the system down before it tears all of us down.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Mycot

[Darklight]

While I can appeciate some of your finer points here, to attempt to eridicate imbalances in many of these areas is very misguided. Men and women naturally have strengths in different areas through biology and evolution and function best when they best utilize these strengths. Hopefully they can do it together.

Possibly I made my point badly. Gaining strength and agility for women may in the end mean different things. However this is not to place a limit on the possible strengths of either. For example, when I was younger and working out there were things I was told women would never be physically able to do, full body pushups, chinups were a standard example. If you go to a gym boot camp now they're totally expected of all participants and if they can't, they're set as a goal, because they're possible. This is one example of a change in social expectations giving rise to greater equality.

I'm hoping the next one which I'll see change is a societal acceptance of men as equal participants in parenting. something which was also viewed as extremely biologically improbable ( even though it was happening ) into my early years .

No I don't think there is agreement between all feminists on all issues. When we talk about the feminist movement we're often talking about a body of political thinking that is associated with the term.

I don't agree with this. Whenever I hear the F word it is usually a media construct designed to foster discomfort and opposition. Much like the term Environmentalist, or Muslim, or Biker. And I think this is what has persisted and percolated into the public's conscious over the last twenty years. It is a shame, because it means we don't remember the many quality debates that occur and are still occurring around the issue of gender equality. And if we don't learn from our history we are doomed to repeat our mistakes

In it's political sense there has been much focus on women climbing financial ladders and assuming male roles(why the hell would they want to do that ( snip ) For reasons I have outlined above this is misguided. Merely climbing the ladder in a patriarchal system simply strengthens that system because of the support for that system.

Anarcho-feminism anyone? It kinda lost out to the sex-in-the-city crap. But it had some valid points

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcha-feminism

I say tear the system down before it tears all of us down.

I'm a bit more settled these days, I favour the notion that if we build a better option people will necessarily be drawn to it and away from the current destructive aspects of our society. The revolution must include all people. And there should be dancing

Excellent to talk to you tho, and I think we at least agree on something

[synchromesh]

I say tear the system down before it tears all of us down.

 

+1

The system has been pissing me off a lot lately.

The revolution must include all people. And there should be dancing

 

It wouldn't be a revolution otherwise.

Edited August 7, 2011 by synchromesh

[bℓσωηG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQiRGcXEyUo&feature=related

[Darklight]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQiRGcXEyUo&feature=related

 

My connection here is too slow for Youchoob.

But from the looks of the title another view could be that conspiracy theorists are a feminist plot to make some men look dumb

[Mycot]

More on misandry, the oppression of men and do contemplate the social consequences.

Why do my son's books tell him all men are useless?

Never forget that men are not useless, far from it so keep your chin up.

Women are not and never will be the equal of men in many areas and conversely men are not the equal of women in other areas. The only sense that the two can be considered equal is in the sense that is meant in the declaration that all men are created equal.

One thing that I can not stress enough is that WOMEN ARE NOT THE ENEMY.

It is feminism that is the enemy, consider it nothing short of war.

Space and time wont allow me to elaborate on exploitation inherent in dealings with the modern western woman conditioned by feminism which I'll presently leave for the readers consideration.

Feminism is not only the enemy of men but also of women for whom feminism has failed lacking as it does any good role models for women.

Women are more and more realizing that feminism, far from bringing them emancipation

has entrapped them bringing them escalating levels of misery and discontent which is only getting worse.

Through feminism women have painted themselves into a corner, little knowing how get out and they are panicing.

Whether man or woman DO NOT support feminism for it is about totalitarian control at your expense.

Do not support International Womens Day for it has been hijacked by the feminist agenda and consider yourself amongst the truely confused and deluded if you find yourself supporting slutwalk.

Do not buy into the feminist agenda or accept feminist bullshit which is reaching unbeleivable levels. And as far as possible do not be a victim of feminism or feminist agendas.

[Darklight]

It is feminism that is the enemy, consider it nothing short of war.

Space and time wont allow me to elaborate on exploitation inherent in dealings with the modern western woman conditioned by feminism

Oh good. That means I don't get baited by reading more of your ineffable twaddle. Damn, I got baited *sigh*

Women are more and more realizing that feminism, far from bringing them emancipation

has entrapped them bringing them escalating levels of misery and discontent which is only getting worse.

Hell, I too miss the days when we had to get our husband's permission to have access to the pill. In fact I miss the days before reliable contraception. We had so many more options. I miss being told that once I married I had to leave work and force the role of breadwinner on my husband. I miss being told if I got raped I must have deserved it. I really resent the fact that I now have at least some say in my country's future by voting. I miss the constant stream of social pressure to be a very precise sort of attractive, and not too smart because apparently men feel threatened by smart chicks ( which I don't believe for an instant ). I miss at-fault divorce. I miss being told that my only source of personal fulfilment was being considered a good breeder and a submissive partner. I miss rape within marriage being legal. I miss the sanctity of the ladies saloon in pubs I'd love to return to the days of long dresses and multilayers of uncomfortable compressing heavy undergarments and hats and gloves. I miss people feeling sorry for me because I've never married. I loved it back when it wasn't considered a reasonable expectation for men to be unaware of the myriad of pleasures offered, or even the location of a clitoris. Did I say clitoris? I would never say clitoris, you must have misheard me. Look- over there- a bake sale!

Most of all I miss the time when it was not possible to sit around with my friends, many of them male, and have interesting discussions about really personal stuff and talk about sex and motorcycles and and gardening and science and life and thought, because doing all that would mean I was a danger to their marriages and masculinity and a loose woman to boot. I never realised their tender sensibilities were so easily unbalanced and I apologise.

I'm glad we have you, Mycot, to dictate to us all, male and female, what our responses should be to your points. I'd feel inadequate to negotiate such complex discussion without your guidance and insistences on our appropriate answers to social issues

Are you fucking kidding me?

You sir, are a sad and bitter nutjob with no historical perspective

Through feminism women have painted themselves into a corner, little knowing how get out and they are panicing.

No, we're laughing at you. I mean you in particular- not men in general. Just you. That's not panic you're hearing, it's hilarity.

[Gimbal]

leaving those sorts of remarks unchallenged so often gives the impression that this forum is sexist, and unsupporting and unwelcoming to women.

Quoted for truth. And not just this forum, but certain events which may or may not be associated with this forum.

Thanks for responding to these comments, Darklight. Love your work.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Cinnamon Girl

[Mycot]

Yes I know that strong language was used in my last post and some may be shocked by the directness by which points were made but they were not made lightly. The serious nature a subject matter does sometimes require that things be put strongly.

Wishing to provide further information (at times a pointless exercise) to help clarify a number of points made, I'll press on.

First a quote I'll include for interest.

"Today’s situation for men ruled by feminism parallels the historical institution of slavery in the United States. At that time, even those slaves who believed in the ideal of racial equality didn’t consider it possible to be completely free in that society. Instead, they learned to excuse, justify and adapt to slavery. Few could even conceive of eradicating the entire institution. It had become so embedded in their culture and way of life that it seemed normal, even natural. "

That both genders voices be included I consider an important matter and in that spirit I wish to post clips from two amazing and exceptional women.

The first from a black woman speaking about what feminism has done for women in the black community. It may be only a mattter of time before the white Community catches up.

 

 

[Mycot]

This second one from a woman talking about how feminism does women a great diservice let alone the menfolk.

This is part four of a series by her on feminism all of which are well worth watching.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSq86Gov0FU

[Mycot]

A third bearing relations to the former is from a man talking about male rape of another kind.

 

 

[Gimbal]

Oh yes, a few random youtube videos are enough to change my mind about every thing I ever learned and every feminist I've ever met. Especially when the videos are filled with logical fallacies.

Like the third one which starts with the line "Sex is now being used by women almost exclusively as a weapon against men". For fucks sake. All the women I know who have sex with men do so because they actually LIKE men and enjoy having sex with them. Or at least, they think that's why they have sex... I suppose we just don't understand our own motivations. Lucky we have this telepathic man to tell us what we really think.

Despite what anti-feminists try and tell me feminism is, I've not yet met a feminist who hates men, nor have I read a feminist text which demonises men - and I've read a lot. Strangely, I prefer to listen to actual feminists and read actual feminist texts to find out what they believe. I can't see any reason to blindly take the word of people who aren't feminist and show no understanding of feminist theories or positions. Doing that would be like trying to learn about drugs from someone who hates drugs and got all their information from Reefer Madness.

I feel sorry for people who have been fed a straw man argument (no pun intended) about feminism and now feel anger and hate towards something which actually does not exist in feminist theories. What a waste of energy.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Cinnamon Girl