Mimosa hostilis active without MAOI?

[apothecary]

Teo posted up a link to the Mimosa section of the wiki on EBA which was embarrasingly bare.

While searching for good tidbits to beef it up, I came across this link I have never seen before on erowid:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa_info2.shtml

Mimosa hostilis active without MAOI.

Ott says interesting things like:

 

quote:

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Preliminary chemical evidence reveals rather the presence of several novel and yet-unidentified DMTadducts in jurema preta root-bark, apart from free DMT itself. Either these compounds show oral activity per se, not being substrate to gastric MAO, or rather show a higher affinity for the enzyme

, serving thus as competitive inhibitors respective to DMT for its active site

, in the manner that the ß-carbolines do. My current work strongly suggests the former conjecture is the more parsimonious.

 

Remember, the simple, short-acting tryptamines are themselves MAOI, albeit far weaker than harmine and harmaline in this regard. The reported enhancements of psilocybian effects by concomitant administration of ß-carbolines suggests that even psilocine, with its dramatic oral activity, is a significant substrate for gastric MAO, as this synergy, if it is borne out scientifically, yet to be done, would almost certainly be due to inhibition of gastric MAO, as all evidence suggests that in the brain, the MAOI [at least in the case of ß-carbolines, probably via a general inhibitory effect at the GABAA receptor combined with competitive inhibition of tryptamine-binding at 5-HT receptor subtypes]; including the artificial, medicinal agents like iproniazid, etc., markedly inhibits effects of DMT and its cogeners, not to mention LSD [vide my article in MAPS VI(3): 32-35, 1996 for references and the new edition of Ayahuasca Analogues for a discussion of this phenomenon; vide item: The Heffter Review 1: 65-77, 1998; recall also that cerebral MAO is found inside nerve-terminals, not in synapses].

 

Finally, why this undue and exaggerated emphasis on the ayahuasca effect in attempting to rationalize the pharmacology of jurema preta? I can assure you--but will say no more at this time, pending resolution of yet-outstanding mysteries--that the psychoptic pharmacology of the tryptamines neither begins nor ends with the hallowed ayahuasca effect, exploration of which constitutes only scratching the surface of a broad and intricate, far-ranging topic, rife with scientific, commercial and political significance which has yet to dawn on psychonauts, much less ayahuasqueros, governmental sanatory authorities or pharmaceutical-corporation scientists. -- JONATHAN OTT, México

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quote:

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I recently found psychoptic properties in a potion prepared from 25 g jurema preta root-bark. The potion was prepared by the traditional method, simply squeezing the beaten rootbark in cold water, with no additives [2 times, 125 ml water each time]. The vinho da jurema gave DMT-like effects commencing somewhat sooner [20 min.] and lasting less time [> 2 h.] than is typical for me with ayahuasca or pharmahuasca [ca. 45 min.; lasting 2 h.+] (OTT 1998b). As there exist non-ß-carboline MAOI, there is the possibility some unknown MAOI compound exists in jurema preta. On the other hand, preliminary analyses of Mexican root-bark suggest that, apart from free DMT, jurema preta contains DMT bound or complexed to larger molecules which might protect against deamination by MAO and allow transport to the brain [where free DMT would probably have to be generated by action of another enzyme] (CALLAWAY 1998). In any case, it is evident there is no lost or missing ingredient, and vinho da jurema is potently visionary by itself, prepared in the traditional manner, and assuming an adequate dose.

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Is the fact that Mimosa product is hard to obtain in Australia the reason we are ignoring this interesting research opportunity?

[ 03. July 2005, 04:36: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[teonanacatl]

the bark is illegal to import so people havta grow it themselves which takes 4 years(??)

[Tomer Corymbosa]

why 4 years??

2 years is enough for harvest , correct me if i wrong

[teonanacatl]

there u go i wasnt sure if it was 4 years hence the ??, i was just trying to say that there hasnt been that much grown in the last 2 years in aus that ive heard about so it will take some time before people test it out

[Rev]

somewhere way back i posted a link to a GCMS readout that positivley identifie a beta carboline in MHRB

i would just love to get my hands on wine of jurema

but no-one round here has seed or herb and isnt likely to either

I think ott used 25g bark

but admitted being sensitiv eto effects so prob more is needed

[ 03. July 2005, 17:59: Message edited by: Rev ]

[teonanacatl]

rev i got got plants

[hebrew]

teo i would be interested in a plant or two if you have them for sale?

[teonanacatl]

will do soon also a quick plug haha will have some mate plants to

[hebrew]

i'll get one of those too

sorry about the hijack

[apothecary]

Yeah the account says he tried 3 grams powdered MHRB, in water (filtered), with no effect.

So he tried 25g or something, faster acting but less length to the trip.

Let me see if I can pull the link Rev.

[friendly]

Ott has reported firsthand experience of oral activity of vinho jurema (M. hostilis root bark infusion) without an additional MAOI.

The seeds are reportedly also active to a degree, but who would waste them when you can plant them? I do have some year-old M. hostilis seeds that may no longer be viable, though.

M. scabrella is reported to be active and can grow like a weed in Western Oregon, surviving the relatively mild winters.

Mine grew 8 feet in the first year.

I am awaiting bioassay results on some M. scabrella root bark I gave to a friend who wanted to be the first to report on it, but so far he has not tried it, alone or in combination.

Unverified information suggests it possesses activity.

[Rev]

teonanacatl:

rev i got got plants    

can you hold me a couple plz

[teonanacatl]

sure

[bloodbob]

Rev:

somewhere way back i posted a link to a GCMS readout that positivley identifie a beta carboline in MHRB

I also recall there were concerns that the work up my have synthesised these compound.

[noun]

teonanacatl:

sure    

Teonanacatl, could I please add my name to the list.

Two plants would be lovely, if that is possible.

Thanks

[Pisgah]

Originally posted by friendly...

 

quote:

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I do have some year-old M. hostilis seeds that may no longer be viable, though.

---

I planted some that were at least a year old recently, and I had 75% germ rate. Boiling water scarification, wait till they swell (usually a few to ten hours) and planted them in a well draining mix with some dirt I dug up from around the roots of an Albizzia for nitrogen fixing bacs. Even some of the seeds with holes and nicks swelled and germed

[Pisgah]

Originally posted by friendly...

 

quote:

---

I do have some year-old M. hostilis seeds that may no longer be viable, though.

---

I planted some that were at least a year old recently, and I had 75% germ rate. Boiling water scarification, wait till they swell (usually a few to ten hours) and planted them in a well draining mix with some dirt I dug up from around the roots of an Albizzia for nitrogen fixing bacs. Even some of the seeds with holes and nicks swelled and germed

[woof woof woof]

yea,.... I am sure the seed will stay viable for at least 2 or 3 years

[apothecary]

Torsten, I seem to remember a while ago you mentioning M. hostilis seed would be for sale. Is that still going ahead or have there been complications?

Also, is seed legal to import?

It strikes me as interesting that MHRB is such a viable business, how can they produce so much of the stuff when each plant must essentially be killed (I guess you could cut it up as cuttings) to obtain...wait...how much MHRB is obtained after say, two years growth? One dose worth? Five doses worth?

EDIT: Well worth reading:

http://yatra.yage.net/jurema.htm

[ 07. July 2005, 03:00: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[Dodie]

Could i please ad myself to the list too if you have anymore spare?

Thanks

[apothecary]

I will be able to supply some people with M. hostilis (and possibly D. cabrerana?) seed soon.

[Benzito]

Apo, only moments ago you were asking Torsten if he would be getting some seed in?

Now you will have some to give away yourself?

Hmmmmm, this is might suspicious I must say...

COUNT ME IN THEN! I'll take some seed. :D

hehe

[apothecary]

New information from the front line

I'm definitely looking forward to T's stock too

[Rev]

Apo u can be my new best friend :D

love to have ago with these

was getting worried i was going to run out of plants to grow

[hebrew]

apothecary you can also add me to that list as well

for both of those plants