voacanga

[Torsten]

just because a term is misapplied widely doesn't make it OK to use it in a place where we all know better or at least where we try to be educated about drugs. 'Base' refers to freebase and is hence Not a salt. In relation to speed this means it is an oil.

[apothecary]

That's dodgy.

That really upsests me, because some friends do that stuff and they have no way of knowing better.

How come the government isn't informing people about this instead of all the useless bullshit they spout?

[ 17. June 2005, 13:25: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[Benzito]

Yeah, my mates all buy 'base' and cut it with glucose powder, to make 'half-base'.

But this stuff is just a gummy powder, mostly white in appearance. Definitely not an oil.

That is quite sad, you're right Apo, that knowledge on these drugs is so poor. "Speed - You don't know what it'll do to you"

...And we'll make sure you never find out!

Stupid government scare campaigns. :mad:

[simon_marklar]

AndyAmine.:

Umm, AFAIK freebase "speed" is an oil SM, perhaps you mean something else?

From what Ive been told various things can cause that effect from methods used in production, contaminants etc to high ammounts of unconverted psuedo etc..

yes true. the 'base' that i used to get came in a few ways. either a pinkish oily goopish lot that you had to mix with glucose to snort (i used to just drink it). sometimes it came as a wet powder. i thought this was merly crystal meth crushed up. the best stuff was white, oily and see through when you seperated a bit of it. so AFAIK base = a short way of saying 'methamphetamine freebase' because AFAIK amphetamine is not so common thesedays. the less goopyier/runny it is usually means that its been cut already. i dont understand why people get thier panties in a knot over the term 'base' because as others have said, cutting it with glucose makes it snortable, hence my saying voacgana reminds me of a small line of base. do pray tell, what is this gloopy oily stuff that i used to get sold to me as 'base' if it is not methamphetamine freebase (+other stuff)?

i mean, you did know the feeling that i was referring to, didnt you?

but were not here to gues at the contents of some dodgey cooks gloopey 'speed' are we? :D

voacgana was nice, i'll definatly be using it when i need a little more stimulation than a coffee. (cuz i dont do speed anymore)

[Torsten]

meth oil is highly corrosive and it is unlikely that any of you ever snorted any of it, even if it was cut 1:9 with glucose. Probably what you got was meth that was cooked up from pseudoephedrine (the standard method in Oz). If the stuff is done the way it says in all the internet recipes then at least 20% of the pseudo doesn't convert. No problem if you are in america where they use ephedrine, cos a combination of ephedrine and meth will crystallise nicely. Big problem if you are in oz and you have 20% pseudo in your final product, cos it will never crystallise!!

A FOAF found this out years ago when he tried to cut some pure meth with pseudo. After 24 hours the whole thing had turned to goop even though no moisture was allowed in. I don't understand the chemistry, but I presume the two molecules share their crystal water or something like that. No amount of drying will produce a crystal.

So if you got goopy speed then you got poor quality stuff that hasn't been fully converted. That in itself isn't a health issue, but you should consider that if it wasn't fully converted then there wold also be substantial amounts of iodo ephdrine present and obviously neither have been removed, because clean up methods would remove either both or none.

Furthermore having incomplete conversion indicates the presence of aziridine which is neurotoxic.

The term base was used first in adelaide many years ago, because that's where 'wet speed' first turned up. It used to be red or brownish indicating the extremely poor lab skills of the manufactureres. And it was gluggy. Forensic analyses established high pseudo content in all samples. Over the years the colour improved, but not the consistency. Somewhere along the way someone had the bright idea to call it a mix of salt and base. Eventually it was just called base. The trend spread aroudn the country. People were buying the really impure stuff because it was more economical since it was not cut with as much. Street speed is about 10% actives and 90% glucose. So if you sell gluggy shit at twice the ratio (ie 20speed : 80 glucose) then the customer still gets about 1.8 times as much for the same dosh.

The customer will think he is getting 'really pure speed' cos there will be less glucose, but in fact he is getting a whole nasty cocktail of chemicals because the cooks are too dumb or lazy to clean it up.

If you want to check out the quality of what you have then steam distill it. The residue is crap and the distillate is pure meth (with a little ephedrine possibly). You will be surprised.

These sort of marketing concepts are based on the gullibility of customers and the fact that people prefer to listen to hype rather than facts.

[Torsten]

btw, 'base' is *very* alkaline. Just like it would burn the crap out of your nose for hours, it would also turn pink litmus paper very blue. The latter method might be a better way of confirming what you have

[edited cos I got my litmus colour wrong ]

[ 18. June 2005, 15:10: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[apothecary]

Thanks T, I am passing all of this information on to my friends.

[friendly]

I hate to digress, but back to Voacanga seeds:

If the powdered seeds have been sitting around for a while they may have lost some of their potency.

All of the experiments I have conducted and those I am aware of from other sources used whole seeds or tinctures made from whole seeds.

Recently, I became aware of information suggesting that usage of the root bark of V. africana is practiced in Africa and am investigating this avenue via smokable extracts.

I have a tincture in progress for oral bioassays.

I drank 7 ml of Voacanga africana seed tincture yesterday just to check it out again, and the rush was definitely much fuller than one would get from speed and I felt mildly entheogenicized most of the day, in line with other experiences when I couldn't relax and let go into the space provided by the seeds.

I can't say it wired me at all; nothing like that.

It's more comparable to the rush when insufflating Sceletium, having an empathogenic quality as well as a stimulatory one.

[amanito]

Could someone tell me the difference between smoking and taking the seeds orally?

Also does this come with a nausea? If so, is it possible to avoid (e.g. cold water extraction, .. ?)

If you smoke it, can you smoke the seeds just like that, or do you need to make a freebase, also, what is a good way to make a freebase out of it?

Dosages for smoking?

thanks in advance.

[amanito]

bump

[Torsten]

never smoked them so no idea. I know some people like to smoke the extract, but they don't seem to get anywhere near as good or complex an effect.

[t st tantra]

bark from the voacanga which herbalistics has is psychoactive in quite small doses smoked, half a match stick or so ,nice,analgesic ,never dosed higher than that.....africana[sp?] seeds not very active smoked....different alkaloidal mix. seeds better sublingual imo.say 6 seeds to enhance something else ....

t s t .

[tripsis]

Are your plants self-fertile t s t?

[t st tantra]

have no plants,most of that family seem to do ok here but not voacanga and i assume iboga.

t s t .

[tripsis]

Oh right...I thought that if you had tried seeds, they must have come from your own plants.

[Alchemica]

Just bumping...

 

Been a long time since I've explored them. To me, the seeds contain the less interesting alkaloids... voacamine and tabersonine. They are however the said to be 'visionary' part. Others get good effects. The voacangine/voacamine rich root bark is my main interest. Reports on the seeds vary wildly:

 

7 seeds (0.5g) producing 'Mild perceptual disturbances, especially if I am moving or I am looking at something moving, but nothing more intense developed. My mind is clear but movement and temporal judgment is somewhat impeded... More stimulated, but no more intense visually' in one report, to as earlier mentioned 'have eaten seven seeds, crushed into a powder, and swallowed in a single gel-cap. After two hours or so, remarkably noticeable effects began, which reminded me of mescaline, with a +2.5 on the Shulgin Scale. I was going to eat fifteen seeds, and I am glad that I didn't, because I was barely prepared for what happened from only seven seeds. I saw swirling patterns, while lightly floating in a fuzzy sphere about me. My peripheral vision was dramatically increased. My body felt numb at times, and my limbs were tingling. My mind kept drifting or transcending off on deep daydreams, which would close off with a snap and I'd be back in my chair, startled at how far away my dreams seemed to have taken me. Regarding V. africana, the defunct ...of the jungle catalog stated: 'Although the rootbark is employed in folk medicine as a stimulant and heart strengthener, the seeds themselves are reserved for visionary use among the elders.' 'The indigenous healers who collect this material for us prefer Voacanga to the other more famous African sacred plant ally.' [https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=79837]

 

~15 seeds being nootropic 'Acts as a cognitive enhancer in doses around 12-15 seeds, anything higher than that produces bad diarrhea....', 1g 'Within 30 minutes a noticable shift in brain activity occurred. I can describe the experience as mild but cognitive enhancing. I feel as though I am much more wise and their is more activity in the brain... Eyes feel very heavy and I'm experiencing that 'pineal' feeling. Effects come on within about 30 minutes and last several hours. I feel as though my ability to focus on a single task is improved greatly. I believe I have a good enough feel for the seed that I could increase the dosage by at least twice as much.'

 

50 seeds producing empathogenic dreaming [https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=2178].

 

One source states I needing 'anywhere between 50 and 300 seeds for full effects', '200-300 seeds was a full trip, and 600 seeds felt like I was hitting the upper end of what I could safely take.' others '60 and got nothing but a stomach ache'

 

Bad trips, from Erowid, include:

43 seeds 'very mild change in awareness... The next day I vomited when I woke up. Felt weak. Partially incapacitated. Got some gut aches and hot flashes. Around 6:00pm I vomited again after only drinking water all day. It was green. Gut pains persisted for days. Conclusion: this is poison.. not worth trying.'

8g (~120 seeds) 'my conclusion is to stay the hell away from them'

35 seeds fairly fresh - 'slight acid buzz... 70 more seeds - beginnings of nausea... slightly more acid buzz, some nausea... 150 more seeds... realize I'm not going to trip. I had planned on listening to music, reading a certain book and meditating. Went to bed. Strange but pleasant dreams. Nausea and somewhat uneasy. Next day, stomach pain.'

15g 'I felt nothing, went to sleep, woke up, puked and shit at the same time. did it on and off for hours. I went to the hospital. I got sent home they gave me potassium and a green pepto bismal like stuff. I suffered and suffered and puked more. I had such intense pain in my liver mostly. I had to go back they finally gave me a shot of demerol that helped for a while and a prescription for darvaset. I stayed the night in the hospital finally falling asleep. I still had severe liver pain for two or three days after. I couldn't feel a high besides a little stimulation. I took milk thistle seed extract the night of ingestion, and I think tylenol. I might of had kava kava earlier that day or the day before. I learned a lesson not to do that again.'

My experiences (on a SNRI and D2 partial/5-HT2A antagonist which is easily enough displaced from 5-HT2ARs). heavily nicotine dependent
 

0.5g (10 seeds). I'm back to subjective baseline after the Lagochilus.

+40min: No discernible effects
1hr 20min: No discernible effect.

Woke up early, refreshed the following day.

With 1.0g (23 seeds), crushed and boiled with water and consumed

+30min. Normally I would pep myself up with huge doses of coffee in the morning, lately that has included adrenergic stimulants etc. Today, I'm content with coffee in the standard dose only. Could be distracted by new novel things, or getting something quite beneficial. Mood is good, cognition is clear. No perceptual alterations.

+50min. Cognition clear, feeling content. Nootropic, maybe?

1hr 40min. No perceptual alterations. Mood and cognition are good. Might have to push the dose...

+ 750mg

+ 55min no stronger effects, slight unease? Easy to write. Mild stimulation

A jump back to 2014:

Voacanga africana is traditionally used to treat a wide range of conditions in Africa,including leprosy, diarrhea, general-
ized edema, mental disorders and as an analgesic and anti-inflammatory. Voacanga africana is also used as a hypotensive
and to reduce body aches and trauma

Voacamine is potentially neuroprotective and useful in CNS disorders.

Alkaloids in rootbark 5–10%, in trunk bark 4–5%, in leaves 0.3–0.45%  and in seeds1.5–3.5% (Bisset, 1985).

Voacamine is reported to be found in both stems and bark of Voacanga africana, although predominantly in bark (Koroch et al.,2009)
The leaves contain a fairly complex mixture, with voaphylline, vobtusine and voalfolidine as the major alkaloids (Korochetal.,2009).
Some authors also reported the presence of voacamine in leaf extracts of Voacanga africana

https://medicalxpress.com/.../2014-08-analysis-african...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voacamine

 

The Garden of Eden states 'There may be variable response to the seeds' c. 50g representing a dose for some c. 7g may be sufficient, 20 seeds may potentiate psilocybin c. 3g root bark long-lasting mild stimulation with no negative side effects

 

Voacamine, potentially in the Voacanga seeds (1.5-3.5% alkaloids) and generally in the bark is a potentially useful alkaloid for CNS conditions, particularly those related to aging. Tabersonine, the putative main alkaloid in the seeds may also be interesting - tabersonine binds to Aβ(1-42) oligomers in a dose-dependent way - it is a potential therapeutic drug candidate for treating AD.

 

The seeds seem like an effective moderate-duration stimulant and nootropic at 1.75g. This may be a sub-threshold dose for marked psychoactivity.

 

The bark alkaloids (3.7-10%), often consisting of voacangine (ca. 0.5%) and voacamine (1.4%) may be an effective stimulant and anti-addictive, doses from 200mg to 3g root bark have been explored successfully. Stem bark (1-5% alkaloids) contains ca. 0.15% voacangine.

 

Really looking forward to exploring the bark.

 

Keen to know if anyone has anything to add.

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Alchemica