I am fed-up with the Ethnobotany forum.

[mac]

aint hating yogie

just saying i used to be a abrasive cunt when i had eaten all my script of mercindol plus & temaze or

question is do you think your trying to taper off or replace the oc meds with PST contributes to your recent feelings ?

Quick run while you can i think this place has turned me into a hippy

[santiago]

This used to be mac

this is mac now

[mac]

 

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showforum=30 Edited March 11, 2011 by mac

[Yogibear]

aint hating yogie

 

I didn't perceive any rodent-like, brain-dead hatefulness coming from you: You gave a perfectly rational, considerate post Several of the others did too - thank-you

...

question is do you think your trying to taper off or replace the oc meds with PST contributes to your recent feelings ?

 

No. I'm always like this

Actually, I'm quite happy to shut-up, until I'm told to. My entire argument was - and still is - valid: I started the PST thread, to share how - even thought it contains very weak levels of opiates, it *is* enough to relieve withdrawl symptoms of - my at least - codein withdrawl.

I started the thread in the hope that other people would find it a tool. A tool to stop taking codeine.

So naturally, I state my own actions - not implicating or even encouraging any kind of recreational use by others - and instantly, I get a barrage of "WTF MAN EXTRACTION METHODS??? WTF DOOD YOU KNOW THAT'S ILLEGAL RIGHT???" ..

How can other people find any information helpful, if it has to be censored and cut-down and regulated and hidden in secret-code?

I didn't implicate ANYONE here, I spoke for myself, of a method that proved very useful, and got told to stfu for it.

Now, I know there are other threads on PST, but more often than not around here, they're drowned in obscurity. I also know there are other sites and forums with how-to guides, but hey, what's one more? I didn't claim to INVENT the beverage.

The point of the 'community' and forums, the reason Shaman-Australis was started, is to provide rare plants to people. The vast majority of these plants are psychoactive, and yet everyone spends so much time trying to 'encode' what they mean, that I personally have spent thirty minutes constantly sifting through threads with "Shhh's" and "Don't talk about that man" .. IF people here are too paranoid or scared to grow psychoactive plants, go grow a vege patch or something instead - that's entirely legal!

That wasn't as eloquently worded as I'd have liked, but I have a personal message to attend to before I concentrate on everyone's right to speak freely.

@Torsten: Maybe you should create a forum that's *closed* to the public, so we can actually speak freely, and loudly - instead of in hushed, paranoid little voices.

[Torsten]

@Torsten: Maybe you should create a forum that's *closed* to the public, so we can actually speak freely, and loudly - instead of in hushed, paranoid little voices.

 

I'll reply even though you haven't replied to any of my questions.

The whole forum is public. parts of it are hidden from google, but they are still public. And as anyone can sign up, even if we had a closed forum it would still be public.

We are not paranoid. We are just not blatant about thing that we know have caused problems elsewhere. if you want to be stupid about what you do then fine, but we're here for the long haul and that means anticipating the future.

[Yogibear]

I'll reply even though you haven't replied to any of my questions.

 

Awww

Hold on I'll flick back through and find em.. one tick

[Yogibear]

Yogibear, are you saying that PH edited your posts NOT according to the rules or are you saying that you posted not in accordance with the rules and are now pissed off because PH enforced the rules?

 

I'm pissed-off, Torsten, because I found something that's all natural, quite safe at low doses, has helped me immensely, and I wanted to share it: I haven't had any withdrawl signs in 4-5 days from a heavy codeine dependence. So, I tried to share my experience and create a thread about it.

Rather than ask me to edit-out the step-by-step guide or remove anything self-incriminating, the "moderator" simply closed it but not only did he close it, he closed it after two days or three days: Not immediately. And just to add to the contradiction, he's happy to LEAVE the post out there - unchanged - in full view of google, AND the world.

So if it were closed because the content was *so* forbidden, why would he leave it still sit there in full-view of the world, unless his motivation was personal.

But that's branching off-topic.

The thread may have been very useful to someone who - like me - is wanting to stop taking codeine but dreads the withdrawals, but instead, it's been shut-down in a flurry of 'the rules man don't step over the line dood.. the RULES!!'

It's *meant* to be an open-minded community, and I didn't get pissy at all until a potentially useful thread went in the bin, simply to uphold the 'letter' of the law - a law that appears to ebb & flow depending on who a thread is created by.

It appears to me that you are claiming the latter in which case you should be taking your frustration out on me as I make the rules, not planthelper who merely enforces them.

 

Fine, have it your way then

Your rules suck.

Well, between you and me, I haven't even read them .. not a single line, so I *suppose*, I can't legitimately critique them with any *real* conviction, but if this's all the result of your rules, then they're simply a hindrance to the free-flow of information.

If you're too paranoid to allow people to discuss preparation methods for the plants YOU SELL THEM, then you need to alter the forums to allow an invite only area for private discussion of *ANYTHING*, and like Fight Club: Noone mentions what goes on *inside* the private area. Make it invisible to non-trusted members - easy.

There, no need to feel left out, my frustrations have pointed towards you, too

If however you are claiming the former then please provide examples [privately if it is likely to cause you more trouble]

 

My issue, is that SOME prep threads are allowed to stay active and happily live-out their lives in peace (maybe PHs pals? Who knows) whilst OTHER threads are eliminated.

Rules are meant to apply to everyone, equally, consistently, ALL the time: Not just waived when the moderator likes the poster enough to ignore them. Go read through some Ethno threads Mr.T: I guarantee you'll find MORE than enough examples to prove my point.

Some are stricter, some are less strict. I think a forum where the admin gets to post stuff like "the bitch should be raped to death by 300 oversized african males" might be more to your liking. is that the kind of free speech you are looking for? Just curious, cos I can give you the link to AE if you need it.

 

I ask you for the freedom to explain methods of consumption for plant material, and you confuse it with grotesque, sexually-violent abuse?

That post made me chuckle earlier this morning, but as much as I love your sarcasm, it really is a weak attempt to turn my point back on me, and you know it

Edited March 11, 2011 by Yogibear

[Torsten]

Rather than ask me to edit-out the step-by-step guide or remove anything self-incriminating, the "moderator" simply closed it but not only did he close it, he closed it after two days or three days: Not immediately. And just to add to the contradiction, he's happy to LEAVE the post out there - unchanged - in full view of google, AND the world.

So if it were closed because the content was *so* forbidden, why would he leave it still sit there in full-view of the world, unless his motivation was personal.

I don't know why he did that. Have you asked him?

a law that appears to ebb & flow depending on who a thread is created by.

The mods walk a fine line between enforcing the rules that keep this forum safe and at the same time allowing enough interesting content to be posted. I encouage them to use their own judgement on a case by case basis. This may result in some members feeling they are treated unequally, but so far I have not felt this to be a problem. Simply put, people who break the rules with their threads are usually the same ones who present little new content. I am sure that PH took your posting history into account when deciding on the fate of that thread. And he was obviously spot on as you have just stated that you haven't even read the rules.

Your rules suck.

yeah, but this place is my responsibility. It's my neck on the line. So it's also my rules. I really don't care if you like them or not. The rules are the minimum I feel this forum needs for me to not feel completely exposed.

Well, between you and me, I haven't even read them .. not a single line, so I *suppose*, I can't legitimately critique them with any *real* conviction, but if this's all the result of your rules, then they're simply a hindrance to the free-flow of information.

Others might say that the rules prevent the same use recipe garbage being posted again and again.

If you're too paranoid to allow people to discuss preparation methods for the plants YOU SELL TO US, then you need to alter the forums to allow an invite only area for private discussion of *ANYTHING*, and like Fight Club: Noone mentions what goes on *inside* the private area. Make it invisible to non-trusted members - easy.

I sell the plants for cultivation because selling them for preparation is ILLEGAL! hence this forum is about cultivation, not about consumption.

My issue, is that SOME prep threats are allowed to stay active and happy life-out their lives in peace (maybe PHs pals? Who knows) whilst OTHER threads are eliminated. Rules are meant to apply to everyone, equally, consistently, ALL the time: Not just waived when the moderator likes the poster enough to ignore them. Go read through some threads Mr.T: I guarantee you'll find MORE than enough examples to prove my point.

Like I said above, I let the mods set their own limits and I trust them to handle each case on its merits. I pick my mods because they are fair and have a good grasp of the bigger picture. The fact that you do not understand even the simplest aspects of this bigger picture is more of a reflection on you than on them. Like the fact that you think this is a forum dedicated to preparation - seriously you don't pay much attention do you?

I ask you for the freedom to explain methods of consumption for plant material, and you confuse it with grotesque, sexually-violent abuse?

You asked for the freedom to post whatever you want. You clearly demanded total freedom of speech in one of your earlier posts. I gave you an example of how total freedom of speech can be inappropriate and even illegal in australia. I could have also referred to b o m b making instructions or the westboro baptists as examples.

But even plant extraction discussion can be a criminal offence.

And just in case you think we're all paranoid again, consider this: In Qld you can get 7 years jail for possession of a book or webpage [incl download cache] that contains instructions of how to manufacture drugs [incl mescaline, dmt, etc]. Some other states have similar legislation. Your ignorance of the law is your business, but the safety of these forums and its members is mine.

[Sonny Jim]

Yogi

Don't be fooled by a wiki page or wherever that says it is safe to take 15g of ibuprofen per day (it doesn't actually say that anyway). That dose would literally temporarily strangle the blood supply to your kidneys, which causes parts of your kidneys to die. Your your body can function with a significant loss of kidney function and you probably wouldn't notice the kidney damage in terms of feeling unwell until it is too late. Unlike your liver, your kidneys can not regenerate with time. Once you have killed a nephron (basic structural and function unit of the kidney) it is gone for good. Also, NSAIDs like ibuprofen are a leading cause of stomach and duodenal ulcers in Australia. It is not a good idea to take even one N+ tab daily long term. Even CWEs are not a great idea health wise. It is easy to make a mistake and even if you do a good job of it you are still getting some ibuprofen or paracetamol. If someone made a mistake with a paracetamol CWE it could easily be their last.

Maybe you could edit that part of your post and we can start the otc argument back up in the chemistry/pharmacolgy part of the thread which is hidden. At least that way people googling for an excuse to take 75 N+ tabs are less likely to find another source of information saying it is ok. I would be genuinely very interested from toxicological point of view to hear how you are going after taking all that ibuprofen on a daily basis. From what I understand, you have been taking that amount for years. Maybe you could have a simple kidney function test done. A liver function test would be interesting to. It is free and pretty easy to get a doctor agree to one. You wouldn't have to say you have been taking 80 or so N+ tabs a day. You could just go to a different Dr than usual and say the last time you had the test done it came back a bit dodgy and you wanted to get a follow up or something. When the results come back just ask for a copy. Sorry if it is a big ask but I think it would be valuable information. Plus it's realy the kind of thing you should do for your self anyway just to be sure your ok. If it shows problems you will know you have to look after your self a bit better or even a lot better.

[Yogibear]

Too tired to do a quote-by-quote account.

I'm well aware that these forums aren't focused on preparation, but there should be SOME area where you can freely discuss THINGS without having to encode shit like a paranoiac. I'm also well aware you only sell the plants for cultivation, mm.. I even understand that you were raided a few years back, which would make you quite justifiably paranoid.

But the moderator thing: You've just told me you leave it to their discretion no need to even monitor them right? They decide based on whatever they see fit, and the entire moderation process seems to me to be so full of holes, you're probably not as well protected - owing to their selective Vigilance - as you might like to blissfully like to think you are.

..and of COURSE you'e never had a problem with misuse of moderator access: It's not YOUR posts/threads that're being fucked with, o why would you care?

Shouldn't NEED protection anyway, you.. mm be nice to start a forum - re-start or move this board, or have a small sister-site that's not directly - well - your responsibility.

And who's gunna raid OUR PCs for prep files we've downloaded on the net? Seriously

YOU.. I would say YOU have a right to be paranoid, but there's no reason for everyone else to be.

I have to go to bed. Look how .. lacking in BOUNCE my post has become *yawn*

[Torsten]

I'm well aware that these forums aren't focused on preparation, but there should be SOME area where you can freely discuss THINGS without having to encode shit like a paranoiac.

That doesn't make any sense. You can't have an area for completely illegal matters without endangering the whole forum. if you want to discuss stuff like that then join mailing lists or forums that are designd to be short lived and set up for that purpose [and not in australia].

I even understand that you were raided a few years back, which would make you quite justifiably paranoid.

actully, it made me less paranoid. Once you've been raided by the most powerful crime fighting agency in the country the rest just don't seem as scary ;)

But the moderator thing: You've just told me you leave it to their discretion no need to even monitor them right? They decide based on whatever they see fit, and the entire moderation process seems to me to be so full of holes, you're probably not as well protected - owing to their selective Vigilance - as you might like to blissfully like to think you are.

I am exactly aware of the risks I am taking. Like you I feel that some information needs to be out there. Unlike you I don't feel it needs to be repeated over and over.

and of COURSE you'e never had a problem with misuse of moderator access: It's not YOUR posts/threads that're being fucked with, o why would you care?

I've had plenty of problems with mods over the years, so I do not accept everything they do without looking deeper. I have yet to see any reason why there is a problem in this instance though. You haven't even bothered asking PH why he closed the thread, so how could you have any idea for his motivations?

And who's gunna raid OUR PCs for prep files we've downloaded on the net? Seriously

Are you seriously that naive? SAB downloads have been used in quite a few court cases, from murders to drug possession, and drug manufacture. In most cases people don't feel compelled to share how their carelessness has made the job easy for the cops.

I would say YOU have a right to be paranoid, but there's no reason for everyone else to be.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean others don't have a better handle on the implications and consequences.

And I agree with sonny that you should get a LFT asap. Docs don't mind doing them. More importantly I feel that you should actually be honest with the doc and tell him what you've done and that you need to have your kidneys checked. Your kidney function could be down to 40% without you knowing. Like sonny said, the first you will know is when they fail and you have run out of time. if you were to find out that function is down to 40% now, you might decide to adopt a different lifestyle as it is certainly possible to live a long life with the right precautions. It is also important for hospital staff to know if you were to ever be admitted to hospital for some reason. Treatments that might be routine for others could kill someone with compromised kidneys. I'd be surprised if your use hasn't done at least some damage - people's kidneys have failed for a lot less.

[Yogibear]

Yogi

Don't be fooled by a wiki page or wherever that says it is safe to take 15g of ibuprofen per day (it doesn't actually say that anyway). That dose would literally temporarily strangle the blood supply to your kidneys, which causes parts of your kidneys to die. Your your body can function with a significant loss of kidney function and you probably wouldn't notice the kidney damage in terms of feeling unwell until it is too late. Unlike your liver, your kidneys can not regenerate with time. Once you have killed a nephron (basic structural and function unit of the kidney) it is gone for good. Also, NSAIDs like ibuprofen are a leading cause of stomach and duodenal ulcers in Australia. It is not a good idea to take even one N+ tab daily long term. Even CWEs are not a great idea health wise. It is easy to make a mistake and even if you do a good job of it you are still getting some ibuprofen or paracetamol. If someone made a mistake with a paracetamol CWE it could easily be their last.

Maybe you could edit that part of your post and we can start the otc argument back up in the chemistry/pharmacolgy part of the thread which is hidden. At least that way people googling for an excuse to take 75 N+ tabs are less likely to find another source of information saying it is ok. I would be genuinely very interested from toxicological point of view to hear how you are going after taking all that ibuprofen on a daily basis. From what I understand, you have been taking that amount for years. Maybe you could have a simple kidney function test done. A liver function test would be interesting to. It is free and pretty easy to get a doctor agree to one. You wouldn't have to say you have been taking 80 or so N+ tabs a day. You could just go to a different Dr than usual and say the last time you had the test done it came back a bit dodgy and you wanted to get a follow up or something. When the results come back just ask for a copy. Sorry if it is a big ask but I think it would be valuable information. Plus it's realy the kind of thing you should do for your self anyway just to be sure your ok. If it shows problems you will know you have to look after your self a bit better or even a lot better.

 

Finally someone speaking in a sane and calm manner (Well Torsten was calm).

I started taking basic panadeine (8mg/500mg - Codeine/Paracetamol) when I was about 23. Whats that, 14 years ago. The N+ useage kicked into full swing shortly after moving to Adelaide; 2-3 years later, so its 11-12 years of 48 tablets a day, up to 75, and seriously, I feel fine.

The reference I was talking about also; wasn't some Wiki shit. I searched about half a dozen medical sites, and got the 6-15gms per day for geriatrics there.

But the bottom line right now, is that I haven't taken a single tablet since I started drinking the Poppyseed tea a few times a day, so all I'm ingesting are small amounts of Morphine, Codeine, thebaine etc,etc.. that makes me completely CLEAN, by comparison to what I WAS doing all those years

4 days, and haven't had a sinlge urge for a tablet, haven't had a SINGLE withdrawl symptom.

Why I'm STILL fucked off that thread got closed. Can you even IMAGINE how many people would be addicted to OTC Codeine tabs? ..

4 years ago, my local chemist told me - one day when I went in there for my usual 48 pack for the day, that he'd just found out, that N+ is the most widely abused drug - was back then - for OTC meds. Imagine how many more people there'd be who would be hooked on them after 4 more years.

And the fucker just deletes the thread like, fuck me dead.. /spit @ PH

[Yogibear]

.. You haven't even bothered asking PH why he closed the thread, so how could you have any idea for his motivations?

 

I'd have thought YOU should be more interested in why he closed it due to it's content, then left it there for the google-bots to index? I mean, all this talk about the 'rules' being enforced by the Mods to protect you, and yet, rather than remove the thread or at *least* hide it, he leaves it just sitting there in open view of the entire internet.

With step by step Opium Tea making instructions in it - as he must be aware - I'm sure that was the reason for his closing it - wouldn't want SAB having the cops finding drug-prep methods on here right? .. yet he left them there, simply stopped anyone else posting in the thread.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Yogibear

[mutant]

Yogibear

plus you sound like I total fuckhead. You almost remind of me. Fuck I hope I don't sound like this at my worse!

Why didn't you say what you just said in you last reply in the begining of the thread, or even better in a PM to the mod or Torsten ?

worst bitch thread ever

and to think I generally love flaming threads!

[Yogibear]

Yogibear

plus you sound like I total fuckhead. You almost remind of me. Fuck I hope I don't sound like this at my worse!

Why didn't you say what you just said in you last reply in the begining of the thread, or even better in a PM to the mod or Torsten ?

worst bitch thread ever

and to think I generally love flaming threads!

 

Bit late to get in on the action amigo, the thread is old news now.

[AndyAmine.]

Perhaps Yogi could share with us exactly where the mods should draw the line, I’m interested to hear his opinion?

In the context of your thread where would the line be drawn, at the mention of: poppy seed tea preperation, or poppy straw/cap tea preperation , opium preperation, morphine extraction, conversion to heroin?

If you do/don't see a line please explain why it is where it is?

Then if put in to the context of amphetamines/PEA's, should ep*he#dr%ine or sa#fr&ol type plant extractions be allowed or is it in another catagory?

i.e. Is one plant/drug more taboo than another?

What about pill extractions or synthesis? I mean morph and eph etc. are natural right?

In your opinion, if you were a moderator here at SAB at what point exactly would the hammer come down and a topic of discussion becomes 'too illegal' to allow in the public domain or under Aus law? (SAB is public domain and under Aus law like it or not, that is the format we have to work with)

I put it to you that this line can’t be drawn and that is why a forum rule of 'a total ban' has to be in place?

(Should PH have done what he did or not isnt a part of what Im talking about)

You say there should be another 'invite only' or private forum where these things can be discussed, who should have their neck and $ on the chopping block for that one, Torsten, why?

If this means so much to you and it’s apparently no hassle then why don’t you do us a service and take the risk on your own back and run it yourself where your idea of a utopian forum can come to fruition and flourish?

If you are not happy do this, then why?

Edited March 12, 2011 by AndyAmine.

[Yogibear]

planthelper

Note Added 12 March 2011 - 10:11 AM

Added to warn level

personell insult, spit's @ph

Puts my warning @ 100% 2 of them were given, my him, on the same day, for the exact same thing..

 

Go get some sun dood, you take your 'job' way too seriously

It's spelt "personal", incidentally.

Have a nice day

Edited March 12, 2011 by Yogibear

[incognito]

lol i dont know why u havent been booted already. ur carrying on like a pelican, u where carrying on like one even BEFORE u where let through as a newb. I dont think this crap will stop for the duration of your time here.

U really just need to chill the fuck out man.

[GoOnThen]

Posting Rules

1) Do not incriminate yourself or others.

2) Please be friendly and supportive (no insults).

3) Racism, homophobia, or any other bigotry will not be tolerated.

4) Commercial postings are permitted as long as they are relevant and not obtrusive.

5) Trading and advertising items for sale is welcome and encouraged!!

6) Provide a valid and accurate climate, or a location from which climate can be deduced.

7) Do no abuse the ratings systems.

This is like talking to my 13 year old daughter

It is not all about YOU we are a family

As it has been explained to you over and over again the rules are there for a reason.

If this forum didnt have the first three rules this place would be full of kids talking about getting of there tits and abusing the fuck out of each other.

The frendly, help full and knowledgeable people that frequent these boards are here because they won’t to be part of this community.

If you don’t wont to accept the rules of this forum then you can’t be apart of this community it is really that simple.

I will spell it out for you one more time.

AGREE TO FOLLOW THE RULES OR LEAVE.

Cheers

Got

[yaguareté]

nevermind

Edited March 12, 2011 by yaguareté

[C_T]

ibuprofen is quite harmful to the liver... like VERY harmful.

[AndyAmine.]

I personally know a guy that died from too much ibuprofen and paracetamol.

I met him in detox and apparently he had been abusing it for some years had had been diagnosed with a perferated liver.

So recently started having trouble with jaundice and vomiting blood but he just didn’t seem to get it how serious it was and only wanted out so he could have some more, blaming his health woes on this that and the other (granted he was a bit on the slow side)

Anyway, he left on my second week there and by the time I left 2 weeks later the nurses had got the word that he had died from liver failure after taking another packet when he got out.

Edited March 12, 2011 by AndyAmine.

[solomon]

But the bottom line right now, is that I haven't taken a single tablet since I started drinking the Poppyseed tea a few times a day, so all I'm ingesting are small amounts of Morphine, Codeine, thebaine etc,etc.. that makes me completely CLEAN, by comparison to what I WAS doing all those years

4 days, and haven't had a sinlge urge for a tablet, haven't had a SINGLE withdrawl symptom.

 

Not sure about whats in/on PS, or how much but you've basically swapped one vice for another. Admittedly better than eating all that ibuprofen and paracetemol but still dangerous as PS can be variable.

Hope you're in the process or planning to taper off the PST.

I have to second what SonnyJim said about CWE, things can always go wrong and people can have life long damage..

Walk away..

[AndyAmine.]

Umm, yeah, I had a feeling I wouldn’t get any well considered answers to my questions (or any at all)

Being a mod in such a controversial, legal minefield such as SAB isn’t as easy as it first may seem and doing so while keeping everyone happy even less so.

There are also a lot of tight ropes that need to be walked and egg shells that need to be avoided for the greater good of the community and the forum.

Is this process perfect? fuck no but what is?

Edited March 14, 2011 by AndyAmine.

[Torsten]

planthelper gave yogi a third warn point which means automatic suspension. I am not sure if ph realised there are only 3 points, not 4, so haven't decided on the permanency yet, but just letting you know that yogi can't actually reply. he's been given plenty of good advice here, but I doubt he'll take any of it.