multiverse?

[qualia]

posted here because it's philosophical at this stage

In the most recent study on pre-Big Bang science posted at arXiv.org, a team of researchers from the UK, Canada, and the US, Stephen M. Feeney, et al, have revealed that they have discovered four statistically unlikely circular patterns in the cosmic microwave background (CMB). The researchers think that these marks could be “bruises” that our universe has incurred from being bumped four times by other universes. If they turn out to be correct, it would be the first evidence that universes other than ours do exist.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-scientists-evidence-universes.html

[qualia]

reading this i cant help think of the universe as a cell, encased by other universal "cells"

looking at my own body and the proportions of cells in it,

my mind soon boggles at the though that a "universal organism" exist

of which our universe is simply a "cell"

considering the proportional vastness of our universe,

thinking of such and "organism" quickly reduces my mind to mush

[qualia]

by the way when i think of the proportional infinity of the deepest reaches of our universe

i start to freak out a bit

[ThunderIdeal]

some clarification:

Meaning, we may have detected impact zones between our universe and four others. It has to do with a different perspective of how the universe—and beyond—behaves. Penrose and co. are thinking that it bangs and shrinks and bangs and shrinks an infinite number of times. It’s not among the more accepted theories.

This London group, as detailed in a new paper, is going from the perspective of the eternal, or inflationary, universe, which starts from a bang and just keeps going and everything dies and goes dark, and we live for eternity in a universe of absolute nothing. There is still stuff in that universe forever, but without energy, it’s pretty null; eternal, but a rather cold and dark sort of eternal. (There’s also a theory that in this universe, time just eventually stops altogether.)

So in this universe that expands forever and eventually burns out there’s a period right after the Big Bang of really intense inflation where everything is expanding and cooling at different rates (dictated by quantum fluctuations maybe, but that’s for another time). Those differences translate into basically small bubbles in the expansion of the universe that break off into their own universe. We’re one of these bubbles in a near-endless supply.

And, apparently, we bumped into four others.

[woof woof woof]

there is only one universe.....

[qualia]

how do you know?

[applesnail]

The smart people with alot of scientific theorys & there hubble telescopes say there could be 10-50 billion galaxys who knows what universes they may lead to? Would definately take longer then westfields shopping centre to explore!

[Magicdirt]

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Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt

[Amazonian]

This is a picture of a demigod from the Hindu religion.

“Mahavishnu is lying in Causal Ocean. Millions of Universes are created while he exhales”

[Rabaelthazar]

...so I asked "What does the universe exist IN " and he didn't understand, I said everything must exist in some space ie shoes in a shoebox, a person in a room, a planet in a solar system, a solar system in a galaxy, so what is the universe in ?

He couldn't answer that either.

Makes me think of Qualias suggestions of cells, I have no idea if it's true but at least I can get my mind around that idea.

 

So what do the cells that are universes exist in?

[psili sausage]

there is only one universe.....

 

By definition, this is correct. What we call the universe may not turn out to be all there is, and therefore is not the "universe" but merely part of it.

And Magic dirt, I like your thinking, but it ends the same way as "if God created the universe, who/what created God?"

I saw in a doco (may have been "Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman") that galaxies are gathered into clusters which are lined up in strings which form a giant web through the known universe. They didn't really explain what evidence they had to draw that conclusion but the image reminded me of a cytoskeleton.

[hutch]

So what do the cells that are universes exist in?

 

It gets back to the old "egg...chicken" thing....it was the chicken.....maybe the egg.....nope definitely the chicken

[Magicdirt]

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Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt

[hutch]

So maybe physical reality is in itself a form of restraint that clouds reality and keeps us trapped in the "illusion".

 

Thats nice!...I feel you are right there in some way...on death the illusion will dissolve and our true reality will become clearer....the fog of living will be lifted....we are kept trapped by design...Somethings we are just not meant to know right now.....

It is hard to imagine infinity and beyond..

[Rabaelthazar]

Perhaps we exist in a strange loop and if you zoom in far enough, though molecules, atoms, quarks you will eventually find a miniature version of our universe with a miniature version of yourself zooming further still until he finds the macro version of you.

Strange loops:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_loop

[ThunderIdeal]

This is a picture of a demigod from the Hindu religion.

“Mahavishnu is lying in Causal Ocean. Millions of Universes are created while he exhales”

 

yep i reckon being god must be intense, and i reckon the magic used to keep gods identity hidden from god is ongoing and perhaps the most full-on thing i've ever (believed myself to have) experienced.

we "know" galaxies are arranged along filaments, with dense spots where filaments join up, because we have been busily charting those parts of the universe that are visible to us. the thing is, i don't think this accounts for dark matter, so those filaments may actually account for a fairly small percentage of the mass of the known universe.

i don't think even all of our wildest imaginations bundled up together would amount to 0% of the actual complexity and majesty of existence.

[The Dude]

An infinite amount of multiverses in a finite universe. Infinite circumference and infinite complexity of a defined form. With fractals any unique iteration shares an underlying similarity or pattern with the totality that can be recognised at different scales, yet it can never be totally witnessed at once. The bounds of the pattern are defined yet allow infinite expression. It is universal and unique. (2c)

...also some semantics. There can only be one universe otherwise it would not be universal. There may be many multiverses that comprise the universe.

[CβL]

- The currently accepted age for our universe is about 14 Billion years old. Many supermassive black holes exist which are supposedly impossible to form in 14 Billion years. Also, the universe expansion is assumed to be constant, new measurement suggests it could actually be accelerating - doubling the age right there. This age also only refers to the estimated time of the Big Bang event. Before that? All speculation.

- The universe appears to be infinite in the spatial dimensions too, and there are parts which we may possibly never access on account of their relative velocity to us (superluminal speeds, or wormholes would be needed).

And lastly - maths, man. Mathematics gives so many possibilities. It just makes me wonder.

[brendenx]

Men in Black locker inside another one, and recurring. LOL

[ThunderIdeal]

this discovery suggests that "our universe" bounces off of four others in the past.

while there is little/no evidence for this to be so, i am interested in the idea that "our universe" contains things that originated outside of "our universe".

for instance, an alien race type thing could be in our hood even though they are many times older than the hood itself. in this way, beings of near infinite power could exist in our universe without having had to evolve and master their surroundings in a few billion years.

[Razor]

maybe a little off topic or maybe not but i had a few experiences that may be relevant to this topic,

when i did a trek to the Amazon years ago i stayed with a tribe of people who seemed primitive and a lot less knowledgeable about say the science world yet they understood some scientific things way beyond the general laws of science as the western world holds onto, kind of hard to explain but when i was offered ayahuasca in a ceremony it totally changed my view of our existence in this "universe" as people call it. when i began to see entities appearing out of thin air when the effects first began i started thinking in a multi dimensional way rather than a multi universe way so to speak and then when the ayahuasca was in full swing i was totally en-composed by a whole other world weather my eyes where open or closed i was no longer in this universe or in the place i was before ingestion and in that moment i realised that these other entities were far more advanced than use humans and they were trying to communicate in some way to me and i did seem to understand some of it but it was very technical, mathematical and just purely amazing. after the experience the people of the tribe told me of all different plains and spirits and that they live within our plants untill we release them. as overwhelmed as i was with this bombardment of info i received while in the ayahuasca world its hard to hold onto it without revisiting that place wherever it is in this "universe" or "multi dimensional universe" so to speak

Edited March 7, 2011 by Razor

[botanika]

It's interesting looking at early creation mythology from around the worlds cultures - often they are not describing a 'creator' but a process - even genesis is essentially describing evolution in an abstract way.

Big bang theory is the leading theory but not the only one. Bang may be better described as inflation (from another universe - 'bruises' could also be results of the early asymmetrical inflation) and other theories suggest there was no big bang at all - that the universe is infinitely old, infinite in size and infinite in time. There's still a lot of mathematics that has to be adjusted to suit the big bang theory, like dark matter/dark energy. Very theoretical field!

Bazinga!

[Magicdirt]

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Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt

[Razor]

i think in the western world the government has put in place all these rules and regulations so that we can't look for certain answers that lay in the basics of our environment, also our culture seems to be under the spell that in life you must get a job make a family and buy a house which consumes our whole life span and interest rates and home loans seem to be balanced to take a lifetime to pay off so you tend to spend most of your time at work, don't get me wrong i have a job a family and am paying off a house and i find this consumes most of my time. what i'm getting at is that we have lost direct contact with our environment and all the info that our ancestors have discovered are almost lost or now against the law to practise. can someone explain to me how earlier civilisations discovered the solar systems without modern technology e.g. the Incas and the mayhem's and the Egyptians to name a few seem to have had a good grasp of at least our solar system

[hutch]

can someone explain to me how earlier civilisations discovered the solar systems without modern technology e.g. the Incas and the mayhem's and the Egyptians to name a few seem to have had a good grasp of at least our solar system

 

Think of "chariot of the gods"...did early civilization discover the solar system or were they shown.....

an example...

In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. According to their traditions, the star Sirius has a companion star which is invisible to the human eye. This companion star has a 50 year elliptical orbit around the visible Sirius and is extremely heavy. It also rotates on its axis.

This legend might be of little interest to anybody but the two French anthropologists, Marcel Griaule and Germain Dieterlen, who recorded it from four Dogon priests in the 1930's. Of little interest except that it is exactly true. How did a people who lacked any kind of astronomical devices know so much about an invisible star? The star, which scientists call Sirius B, wasn't even photographed until it was done by a large telescope in 1970.

The Dogon stories explain that also. According to their oral traditions, a race people from the Sirius system called the Nommos visited Earth thousands of years ago. They also appear in Babylonian, Accadian, and Sumerian myths. The Egyptian Goddess Isis, who is sometimes depicted as a mermaid, is also linked with the star Sirius.

http://churchofcriti....org/dogon.html

Perhaps the most interesting thing that the elders told Griaule was their cosmology. They told him of their knowledge that the moon is dry and barren, that Saturn - the star of limiting place - has rings around it and that Jupiter - dana tolo - has four large moons. They knew that the Milky Way is a spiral galaxy of stars, and that the planets move in elliptical orbits around the Sun.

The Dogon have a special reverence for Sirius. The elders told Griaule that Sirius is not just one star, but three. The one we see, sigi tolo (Sirius A) is just the largest and brightest. It is orbited by a smaller star, po tolo (Sirius which is named after a tiny grain that is also called Digitaria. They believe that this tiny star is the heaviest thing in the universe and that it is made of a metal called sagala. This tiny star orbits sigi tolo every fifty years, in an elliptical orbit. The third star in the system is called emme ya, the sun of women. It is four times lighter in weight than po tolo, and it travels in the same direction around sigi tolo, but in a larger orbit. It moves much more quickly through space, so that it takes the same amount of time to complete an orbit around sigi tolo. Emme ya has a satellite or planet of its own, called the Goatherd or the star of women.

http://www.zetatalk....rd/tworx114.htm

And they are dead right!