tripsis Posted January 17, 2011 Perhaps considering the importance of this matter, this topic could be pinned, even forum wide? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 17, 2011 i suppose outlawing calcium would make every multivitamin in australia illegal, not to mention milk, cabbage etc. uff, this is some of the most ill thought ridiculous crap i've read. i'll just say i'll leave the wording of the complaints to those with more knowledge than my self, but i'll support whatever proposals for combating this, do you think writing to the greens would help blocking it in the senate? i mean, they are basically a subsidiary of Labour Corp. now but still, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 17, 2011 i suppose one could also mentioned the endangered/protected status of Acacia phlebophylla, or any other endangered species which may fall under the proposed laws Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herbal_hindsight Posted January 17, 2011 This has Codex Alimentarius written all over it... makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it!!! I will sign and back up any proposals that are going to be put forward. I have limited knowledge regarding the chemistry and have a feeling there are quite a few other members on here that could put a very indepth submission together... This certainly needs to be challenged and in such a way that every day aussies who would normally not give a shit coz it doesn't effect them can relate!!! as clearly it will effect everyone! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Smith Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I'd like to clear up a couple of issues. It is mostly only an offence to possess something on the precursor schedule if there is an intention to use it to make a controlled drug. 308.2 Possessing controlled precursors (1) A person commits an offence if: ( a ) the person possesses a substance; and ( b ) the person intends to use any of the substance to manufacture a controlled drug; and ( c ) the substance is a controlled precursor. (3) For the purposes of proving an offence against subsection (1), if: ( a ) a person possessed a substance; and ( b ) a law of the Commonwealth or of a State or Territory required the possession to be authorised (however described); and ( c ) the possession was not so authorised; the person is taken to have possessed the substance with the intention of using some or all of the substance to manufacture a controlled drug. (4) Subsection (3) does not apply if the person proves that he or she did not have that intention Still completely unreasonable but I'd prefer for the police to have to prove I intended to use it for an illegal purpose rather than just prove I possessed it. Also, no one has mentioned that by listing "Phenethylamines (not otherwise listed in thisSchedule)" and "Tryptamines (not otherwise listed in this schedule)" as scheduled drugs, and by having the drug definition as "A 'drug' means any substance: ( a ) specified in Schedule I: Controlled Drugs and includes... ( f ) any drug contained in or mixed with another substance." means that possessing chocolate or many fruits and vegetables become scheduled drugs? Have a kilo of dairy milk on you and you can be charged with possession of a commercial quantity of drugs. Worse yet, give chocolate to your kid and you can get 15 years. 309.2 Supplying controlled drugs to children (1) A person commits an offence if: ( a ) the person supplies a substance to an individual; and ( b ) the individual is a child; and ( c ) the substance is a controlled drug. Penalty: Imprisonment for 15 years or 3,000 penalty units, or both My earlier link to the Criminal Code Act broke when they updated the website - new link here http://www.comlaw.go...ils/C2010C00842 EDIT: Formatting was all screwy Edited January 17, 2011 by madhouses visites Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
husk Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) uff, this is some of the most ill thought ridiculous crap i've read. i'll just say i'll leave the wording of the complaints to those with more knowledge than my self, but i'll support whatever proposals for combating this, This has Codex Alimentarius written all over it... makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it!!! I will sign and back up any proposals that are going to be put forward. I have limited knowledge regarding the chemistry and have a feeling there are quite a few other members on here that could put a very indepth submission together... We can all do much more than that! EVERYONE on this forum should be writing, that is the proposal! The Minister for Justice, the Hon Brendan OConnor MP, invites public comment on issues relating to the implementation of model drug, plant and precursor schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences. Submissions Public comment is welcome on the issues outlined in the discussion paper YES we should all sign a group submission, AS A GROUP FOR SURE... are we just casual hobbyists or naturalists and serious collectors?? Those with the time and inclination must write as formal submission as possible, I will be researching and dafting asap. BUT everyone must make their PUBLIC COMMENT AS WELL!!! " .... go(ing) back to watching TV" won't help any of us. http://www.brendanoconnor.com.au/ - this is the man inviting. Seriously though if you sat back on kava, now is the time to spend one *hopeful* hour writing a letter. Peace Edited January 18, 2011 by husk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortly Posted January 17, 2011 I'd like to clear up a couple of issues. Also, no one has mentioned that by listing "Phenethylamines (not otherwise listed in thisSchedule)" and "Tryptamines (not otherwise listed in this schedule)" as scheduled drugs, and by having the drug definition as specified in Schedule I: Controlled Drugs and includes... ( f ) any drug contained in or mixed with another substance." means that possessing chocolate or many fruits and vegetables become scheduled drugs? Have a kilo of dairy milk on you and you can be charged with possession of a commercial quantity of drugs. Worse yet, give chocolate to your kid and you can get 15 years. Hmmm that might not be an entirely a bad thing Gives me an excuse to tell the kids "just say no to drugs" when we are in the confectionery isle Yeah like they would enforce that Have you any idea how much revenue the gov skims off confectionery in a year This will be a pick & choose law, one rule for one and a different rule for another Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks for your input Husk, much appreciated and I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. This is not a time to sit back and watch the horrors unfold before us. If these changes are to pass it will be the destruction of a subculture, our subculture. Each and every one of us will become outlaws and criminals. Not something I care to be any time soon. I think where possible (and I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible for each and every one of us) we should submit individual submissions and a group submission. We have to make our voices heard. So it's Brendan O'Connor. A member for the ALP. We should contact Alan Jones and the media and make a story out how utterly stupid the ALP are being, wasting money and revenue on law changes which cannot be successful. Give them ammo for the firing squad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicdirt Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Perhaps considering the importance of this matter, this topic could be pinned, even forum wide? Maybe it's important enough to have it's own subforum to keep it in our sight. If this bill gets through it could be the end our community. It does stink of Codex Alimentarius and their U.N. cohorts. Perhaps we need a printout that can be posted at universities and public places. Edited January 17, 2011 by Magicdirt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 18, 2011 Hey Tripsis, would it be OK if that GetUp suggestion were shared on Facebook? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 18, 2011 Please do Yeti, the more people that see it and vote the better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Smith Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Here is a draft response I am considering. I won't have much time over the next week or so to refine it further. I'm happy for anyone to use any or all of it for their own submission. I'm happy to take advice on the list of plants I should include in attachment A (public knowledge plants only please!) and major industry players for inclusion at attachment B. Please post in this thread or PM me Once I finalise my response I'll post it here for others to use if they want. To Whom it May Concern, Submission on the implementation of model drug schedules forCommonwealth serious drug offences I wish to express my displeasure with the proposed model drug, plant and precursor schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences. The proposed schedules are unworkable and will unintentionally make criminals of otherwise law abiding citizens. I collect plants of all types, including both native and exotic species. I share this hobby with tens of thousands of others around Australia. I have bought many plants, or seeds from plants, from other gardening lovers. By expanding the list of controlled plants to that as listed in schedule II of the model drug offences, these actions become criminalised. I have included a list of those plant species known to contain either DMT or mescaline (attachment A). As you can see, these chemicals are present in many plants. These chemicals cannot be used for their psychoactive properties without chemically extracting them from the plant matter, and it is already an offence under Division 305 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 to extract them. Including these plants in the schedules will achieve nothing more than making criminals out of innocent people like myself. Innocent gardeners would be unaware that by pursuing their hobbies they are about to become criminals. I have therefore written to the organisations listed at attachment B advising them of the proposed model schedules and explaining the implications that these schedules will have on their livelihoods. You will see that these organisations not only include native plant and cactus and succulent societies, but also plant nurseries and retailers. I have also identified and contacted other users of these plants, such as professional and hobbyist woodworkers, who work with acacia wood, apiarists, who create acacia honey, perfume makers, who use acacias to fragrance perfume, the tanning industry, who use acacia tannins to tan hides and environment protection organisations, who use acacias to control erosion or for rapid reforestation purposes. I have also contacted my local parliamentary members to highlight to them the impact these schedules will have on many industries and innocent plant enthusiasts. Additionally, I have contacted Australian news networks advising them that the Federal Government is considering making it a criminal offence to sell or commercially cultivate the national floral emblem. Scheduling these plants is unnecessary and doing so will destroy Australian businesses and the lives of Australian citizens. It would be better to remove all plant species from the schedules and instead focus on those few individuals who use these plants in dangerous ways. This approach would allow honest, hard working Australians to collect and legitimately use plants of all types, without fear of being labelled as a drug user. Yours sincerely blah blah blah. EDIT: Formatting. Edited January 18, 2011 by madhouses visites 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Smith Posted January 18, 2011 I don't know why some of the words are joined together. I'll try and fix it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Australian Network of Environmental Defender's Offices Botanic Gardens Australia and New Zealand Inc Australian Conservation Foundation Department of Sustainability, Environment, Water, Population and Communities Nursery and Garden Industry Australia Australian Native Plants Society Australian Native Plant Nurseries Native Growth Holdings Australian Native Plants Nursery Nurseries Online Banksia Environmental Foundation Biological Farmers of Australia Australian Farmers' Market Association Organic Federation of Australia Willing Workers On Organic Farms (WWOOF) Eco Farms The Wilderness Society Greening Australia Landcare Australia Limited The Greens Australian Wildlife Conservancy Permaculture Research Institute of Australia Australasian Mycological Society Landline Gardening Australia Gardening Australia Magazine Burke's Backyard Costa's Garden Odyssey Sustainable Gardening Australia Gardening Central The Food Forest Green Harvest Green Living Australia John Butler Trio Crikey New Internationalist Natural News Indymedia Online Opinion The Petition Site Edited January 27, 2011 by synchromesh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 18, 2011 Good letter MHV, it's heartening to see people taking this seriously and making progress on their submissions. Do you have the attachments of those you have contacted available? Synchromesh, are those organisations you have or are planning or contacting? I've contacted one of my friends who wrks for the greens, asking her to pass on this proposal to some of the sitting greens members. I've also posted on the Shroomery, nook and Aus Cacti Forum asking for people to make submissios and vote of the GetUp suggestion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted January 19, 2011 I haven't contacted all of them yet, but I do plan to. I posted their sites in the hopes that other people would contact them, oppose to just ask me questions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MORG Posted January 19, 2011 The Botanic Gardens in Sydney holds 6/8 plants on the controlled list B. I can't get over the stupidity of trying to control Datura/Brugmansia... Why? Maybe they should make Travacalm S4 while they're at it. Oh, and clamp down on Duboisia too. They haven't mentioned Nicotiana. The more I look at this, the stupider it gets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted January 19, 2011 This is just one of those things where a graduate public servant chucked a list together on a friday afternoon to get the thing finished. As soon as anyone who knows what they're talking about has a look at it they will forget most of that stuff. Still, a good opportunity to make a submission and get some balancing views out there and make sure they know we are on to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snapdragon Posted January 19, 2011 Hi, is there a person/organisation/website that we can refer people to for more info? Perhaps this site could put up a page that people can go to for more info or to get a draft submission (sorry to suggest work for others to do... )? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IceCube Posted January 19, 2011 Local papers, perhaps we should get a standard letter where we can just replace our names on it? Or we could form a non profit coalition of some sorts so we have a group voice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herbal_hindsight Posted January 19, 2011 I really like the idea of a non-profit coalition... I think if we are ever going to make a stand for what we beleive in and for true justice then this is our chance!!! I am studying at the moment and have an essay a need to complete for that first but once that is out of the way I will be putting this top priority on my list and compile a submission others can sign to stating in more detail every ridicilous aspect of this revision of the legislation!!! I will post it on here before I submit it; just incase there is something I miss out or any editing that I overlook that others can help with! I am even thinking I will contact Leon Viner who my Dad keeps telling me really runs with issues like this and makes things happen as he has a lot of contacts within the political sector!!! Fucked up no doubt but this is our chance people! Let's show them we will not allow this sort of legislation through! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herbal_hindsight Posted January 19, 2011 I just had a thought... from what I have read myself; it's understood that DMT is endogenous in the human body and/or brain. It is not yet understood how the body or brain is producing it but it is proven it is there! - "Further Evidence That Endogenous DMT Acts On The Human Brain?" http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=474288 - DMT has been found to be produced endogenously, "in human urine, blood, and cerebrospinal fluid" (Science, 323, pg 934-947), so there is no question whether DMT is produced endogenously in the human body, but there is no proof that endogenous DMT it is either produced in or is transported into the human brain. From the same Science article they suggest, "The binding, boichemical, physiological, and behavioural studies reported here all support the hypothesis that DMT acts as a ligand for the sigma-1 receptor." I know little about receptors, but I am under the impression that their are sigma-1 receptors in the brain, so does this study indicate further evidence that endogenous DMT is either produced in or is transported into the human brain? How does this relate to the revision of the drug scheduling? Will this new legislation make everyone an illegal producer or in possession of a controlled substance? Or is that already the case anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herbal_hindsight Posted January 19, 2011 also is anyone aware of which member of parliament started this ? was it The Minister for Justice, the Hon Brendan O’Connor MP or is he just inviting discussion on it ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
