MAO Inhibitor

[Tomer Corymbosa]

i think the question been asked before - but i'll ask it again

1.can i buy in pharmacy MAO Inhibitor as a drug?

2.will it work like Syrian Rue? (or better?)

3.and if so do i need any receipt from a doctor to use it? (or only Alzheimer patient have permission to use it??? )

4.is there another plant like Peganum Harmala that opposing the MAO?(its a shame i don't know)

:mad:

the reason i ask it cause my Peganum baby is too little for now and will produce seeds next year i guess.

as usually Thank You about Helpin me in the beginning of my enlightenment :D

[alien]

There are three MAOI's in Australia which are Parnate, Nardil and Selegiline. Nardil and Parnate are used for depression/anxiety and Selegiline for parkinsons disease. They are all perscription only. I doubt a local doc will give you one, you would have to see a psychatrist to get a perscription most likely.

Anyway, its not fun being on a MAOI but they do help if your looking for a solution for depression. Out of the 17 antidepressants Ive been on was Parnate and it is the only one that has worked. It is rather stimulating too. But the dietry restrictions are pretty sucky. I also had small reactions to things that werent on the list of food to avoid, such as preservatives in Berri cranberry juice. You have to be really careful. But some lucky folk can eat what they want and have no reactions, so I guess its an individual thing. Take care

[apothecary]

I think T said somewhere that MAO-B inhibitors are the ones that mean you can't eat certain types of food, and he's tested eating foods on some MAO-A inhibitors with no toxic effects?

Afaik both B. Caapi and P. Harmala are MAO-A, but do research first.

Tomer, if your plant is too small, then maybe you should simply wait? The plant has many things to teach you, and rushing off with some synthetic crap is probably not a good idea

[bloodbob]

You can also look at passiflora ( passion flower) teas I don't know how brilliant they are but you will need around 180 grams supposedly I believe for a good dose ( you can bulk buy them around $30 per kilo on the net I dunno about shipping ).

[alien]

Selegiline is an MAO-B inhibitor at doses 5-10mg and after that it is not as selective and inhibits MAO-A aswell so there is no food restrictions below 10mg. They are bringing out a patch form of selegiline called "EmSam" which is 20mg dosage delivered via a transdermal patch and because its transdermal and goes into the blood stream straight away and avoids the gastro-intestinal route it requires no food restrictions even though its not a selective or reversable MAOI.

Parnate, Nardil, Selegiline and Marplan are non-reversable MAO-A/B inhibitors.

Moclobemide (Aurorix) is an MAO-A inhibitor (its actually called a RIMA [Reversable inhibitor of monoa-amine oxadise A])which requires no food restrictions but you still have to take the drug after you eat just in case. Ive been on this drug and I think its utter shit, but thats just my opinion (but most docs think this too).

The non reversable MAOIs such as Parnate, Nardil, Marplan and Selegiline also prevent MAO for several weeks even after they are stopped.

MAO-A or MAO-B can both metabolise tyramine. If both are being inhibited at the same time then you have to follow the dietry restrictions.

In regard to brain chemistry, what they believe is to be the case anyway is that MAO-A inhibits the breakdown of seratonin and norepinephrine while MAO-B inhibits the breakdown of dopamine.

Take care

[ 16. March 2005, 21:44: Message edited by: alien ]

[strangebrew]

Couldn't you just buy some seeds? :confused:

[Jesus On Peyote]

strangebrew:

Couldn't you just buy some seeds?   :confused:  

Booya

[Tryptameanie]

Moclobemide is quite often prescribed as it doesn't require dietary restriction.

A friend was given it as a second option after a poor response to the SSRI citalopram.

Visit a doctor and get a script for depression, then complain of side-effects till they give you what you want.

It is an effective DMT-activator at doses as low as 75mg, one quarter of the usual starting dose.

On it's own at this dose level it produces no noticable mental or physical effects whatsoever (unlike effective amounts of harmaline).

It is reversable,(half-life=3-6 hours), and will be completely eliminated by the next day.

P. harmala seed is very cheap though if you want harmaline instead.

[ 29. March 2005, 14:06: Message edited by: Tryptameanie ]

[alien]

With the RIMA Aurorix Ive read that most people dont get good effects (if they do get them anyway) at doses above 1000mg. I was on 600mg and I didnt really notice anything. After 1200mg Aurorix isnt as selective and starts to inhibit MAO-B.

Take care.

[alien]

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/maointeract.htm

This site is very good for info on psych meds.

Take care

[psycho0]

i've found moclobemide(aurorix) 2 b quite good as an maoi!

how do the 2 types(mao-a + mao- differ?

in terms of potentiating another substance?

thanx

[mescalito]

 

Here is a fairly thorough site on Moclobemide.

[Tryptameanie]

MAO-A is more selective for seretonin, (a tryptamine), so A-inhibitors are likely to be more effective in potentiating other tryptamines, like DMT.

MAO-B is more selective for dopamine, so might increase the effects of dopamine-releasers like amphetamine. This is certainly a very risky combination though.

My gnome has had methamphetamine while on moclobemide without dying or getting a hypertensive crisis, but still would advise against other people doing the same. He can be a reckless little bastard sometimes.

[alien]

Ive read of reports of people taking MDMA with Aurorix and dying from hyperpiretic crysis.

Thats interesting in regard to Aurorix and tryptamines. I havent read much about their augmentation with such drugs. My knowledge of MAOI's comes from my experience as being a psychatric patient. Its interesting to note that Seligiline (Depranyl) is metabolised into methamphetamine and amphetamine.

[Rev]

Tomer

seriously

why go with the pharmaceutical shit when its going to cost you more than a kilo of rue seed will over there

even if you have to order from an entheo company online (not aust) its going to a darn sit echeaper

and if you have $ then buy capi vine anyway

[Tomer Corymbosa]

i think you right

i don't need these shit drugs.

i will order rue seeds - but all what people wrote here very intersting about MAO...

by the way (rev) i wait for my Zaatar to flower

- i tryed to find seeds and for my surprise there are NO seeds!!!

so i need to send these seeds to Adrian and YOU

i just have to wait my marjoram to flower...

and i'll send u guys fresh leaves!

[Tryptameanie]

 

quote:

---

why go with the pharmaceutical shit when its going to cost you more than a kilo of rue seed will over there

 

---

28 tablets for $4

Half a tablet is needed.

Some people don't like harmaline. Particularly those prone to nausea.

Also, people with an interest in seretonergic structure-activity relationships may be interested in comparing the effects of DMT to those of (say) psilocybin, without the confounding factor of different kinetics. Moclobemide would produce less interference, allowing you to experience a long DMT trip, rather than an aya trip.

[Auxin]

Has anyone heard of someone performing a manske extraction on Tribulus terrestris seed and testing the resulting product? Perfectly legal in most countries and production-wise T. terrestris might be superior to P. harmala (assuming you grow plants rather than buy seeds by the kilo), but I never heard of it being tried.

Edit: from memory its the seeds in which the phenolic ß-carbolines (harmaline, et al) are dominant and the other plant parts where the non-phenolic (reportedly more toxic) ones are dominant like harmane, et al.

[ 24. March 2005, 10:20: Message edited by: Auxin ]

[Rev]

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tryptameanie:

 

28 tablets for $4

 

Half a tablet is needed.

 

Some people don't like harmaline. [/QB]

---

LOl u really dont want to know what a kilo of Rue is really worth o/s

orders of magnitude less than it is here - such that i maintain the rue is still cheaper

as for Mocoblomide

Myself and others have found it to be unreliable

it alos has some non-reversible components wheras harmine/harmaline are reversible (significant to interactions with foods n other drugs)

true about the nausea. If its an issue then its a matter of diff tolerances and expectations

im nausea resistant and tolerant but i feel the experience is its most healing when i do chuck

(when i need to but dont i often feel cheated like i didnt get the chance to purge my bottled up poison)

i realse not everybody values the experience like i do tho

[Northern Gnome]

I already commented on this in another thread, but 7 gram of powdered Syrian rue seed powdered in a coffee grinder and then making a tea out of it was the most gawd awful experience of one Alaskan's life I know. Staggers really bad, everything looked at had strong sparky trails to it, a very sick feeling worse than anything experienced before. HELL.

Obviously 7 grams is a toxic dose of that seed, at least for him. He screwed up royally using root beer as a chaser to help with the awful bitter taste of the tea, bad move, the caffeine in it caused hypotensive crisis, extremely low blood pressure resulting in long term side effects no one should have to go through.

Has anyone else here heard of someone having such a severe reaction to 7 grams of Syrian rue, about a table spoon full or was that an insane amount no one should use?

e: clarification

[ 26. March 2005, 02:04: Message edited by: Orb ]

[apothecary]

If you look at the experience reports on erowid for Syrian Rue, you'll notice that in the "Health Problems" and "Difficult Experience" are around that mark.

I haven't noticed any as bad as yours (and I spend a lot of time in the experience vault ) but not many people go as far as drinking a fermented beverage (don't all fermented things contain tyramine?!)...

[Northern Gnome]

I think the problem occured from drinking the soda pop which had caffeine in it. I guess down under you don't call or have root beer soda pop, it isn't really beer, just carbonated water and flavoring.

[apothecary]

We have ginger beer down here! Which is like your root beer I guess.

I dunno if root beer has tyramine I guess, but I imagine if it goes through a similar processing as most beverages, it might.

[Northern Gnome]

Oh my lord, maybe that is what happened.

Late Edit: The root beer we have over here doesn't use real root and isn't really a beer, just artificial flavoring, so the tyramine possibility is out, but doesn't that cause high blood pressure, not low anyway?

I had to search a long time to find medical reference to MAOI and caffeine, but I found that it can cause hypotensive crisis, or low blood pressure if enough is combined at the same time.

[ 26. March 2005, 15:55: Message edited by: Orb ]

[Auxin]

apothecary:

We have ginger beer down here! Which is like your root beer I guess.

We call that ginger ale ... ever wonder why childrens beverages are named after addictive mind-constricting drugs that often induce violent outbursts? Its a conspiracy I tell you! They want these poor kids to grow up mindless drones man, they dont want people thinking man, just millions of worker bees maintaining their empire so the rich can grow and prosper man, making them violent so theres a greater need for govenment control of the population man, keepin the normal folks down man!

...wait ...what were we talking about :confused:

Oh yeah- yup, fermented beverages have tyramine et al, but why would someone even want to take a befuddleing mind-constricting drug like wine while on a mind expanding visionary tool like ayahuasca?