caapi in SA

[Sola]

I'm interested to hear from anyone with experience growing Banisteriopsis caapi 'au naturale' in a mediterranean climate,

basically anywhere in the southern part of the continent. I want to plant my caapi in the ground and want to know if it'll

grow alright if it's kept watered through the hot/dry summer. I am willing to use some of the collected rainwater to give it a go,

but will it retain it's leaves during periods when the humidity is likely to be very low? Also as it will be in the ground when

winter arrives, will it re-sprout leaves from the stem after it has lost them through the inevitable cold spell or will it start

from the ground with a larger root system? Most importantly will it survive in conditions so unlike it's native habitat?

I always like to have my plants eventually in the ground to live with minimum inputs but am willing to give it more attention

as necessary. Any techniques that have worked or even attempts that didn't would be appreciated. I will build up the soil and

mound it to aid drainage, plant under trees and let it climb, mulch heavily and keep watered. That is all I can think of to do

so any advice or experience would be great. Thanks in advance.

[Micromegas]

Hey sola, I've a cielo caapi in a huge planter box (an old childrens' toy box, maybe 75cmX75cmX75cm) outside in a pretty exposed location. It has surprised me how well it has made it through the winter with no care whatsoever. It looks pretty sick and tired of the cold weather but the stems are a nice green and healthy, just not many leaves and yellow those that are left. It's about 75cm long each of the 5 or 6 stems and was planted mid summer. Yes, many times 75.

Note also where i live is consistently 3-5 degrees cooler at night that adelaide and much windier than a suburban backyard also hotter and windier in summer.

Semi-shade good soil and lots of water will make it go crazy in summer methinks and something strong to climb on, and yeah, as much shelter from frost and cold wind in winter. but you do not want to plant it under trees which may outcompete it. give it a really nice home and it will grow, then die back in winter, then grow again. maybe die eventually who knows but i am confident this is possible (not the part about dying).

other adelaide members will have more knowledge than me perhaps and other varieties of caapi may react better or worse to the cold than cielo i have heard from wise heads but that is for the experts.

i would give it a go. the growth you will get over summer if care for well will reward you even if death comes swifty in the winter.

Edit: it has been in a plastic tree guard the whole time i think this was important for cold and wind protection. it out grew the guard but i left in on i would recommend this for sure it's a plastic tube held in place by three or four stakes about one foot high (the plastic) used for native reveg most commonly.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Micromegas

[planthelper]

very encouraging report there, micromegas!

so people manage to grow tropical plants in colder climats, it always nice to hear so.

i remeber posts from people growing it in mel and reports some people growing it even in glasshouses without heating in canberra!

i tried to grow it once in southern england and it did not survive the winter indoors.

to cultivate it in cold climats one needs a glass house or humidety dome.

the tree guard might made a bit of a difference aswell.

what is important, is to feed and water her well over the summer, so she is strong when winter comes, as they can re shoot with ease after drought or (mild frosts) cold.

[Sola]

Thanks for the info micromegas, seems it might be more tolerant than I thought.

It should grow pretty quickly during the warmer months now with a bit of TLC.

[Sola]

It's awesome to know caapi, if healthy, will resprout after a dry or cold spell planthelper, cheers.

I'm really interested to see how it grows outside.

[coin]

Caapi growing fine in Melbourne in a decent size pot.

Over winter, all leaves drop and the most tender wood can die a little.

Leaves grow back from all wood.

It has never been protected from the elements. (4-5 years old, but has been dug out of the ground and moved/trimmed/temporarily put in a smaler pot, etc.)

[Sola]

Thanks heaps coin, I've got high hopes for my little vine now.

Should be able to keep it growing to become a large vine.

Cheers.

I'll get a few photos going to keep you all updated on it's progress.

[planthelper]

i might add that some reports suggest, that seaweed ferts can increase the coldhardiness of plants.

very important is aswell to know your local microclimat, meaning spots shaded from ground frosts, and/or sheltered, but still bright.

personaly, i get more excited if i grow a plant outside of it's natural range,

and most gardeners do so aswell, because it adds "excotic touch".

[Sola]

Here are a couple of the photos showing how I've planted this one out.

Tis only small atm but the weather's good so hopefully it takes off.

More to come as it grows.

I haven't added the mulch yet due to low funds but that'll come soon.

Also you can't easily see in these pics how much I mounded the soil but it's roughly 60cm higher than original ground level.

Peace

[t st tantra]

the black is said by some to be more cold hardy than the others.

the older/bigger the plant the better your chances.

some ideas....in winter water only when the leaves begin to droop and dont fert unless the plant is growing.

a ring of white crystals just above the base is a good sign your plant is dying....

t s t .

[kindness]

One I planted out Mid Autumn made it through the Winter and is re-shooting. The coldest it got here over Winter was -3... plenty of minus days over Winter to back that cold point up also. This plant is however against a North facing brick wall and is well, (say 100mm) mulched with pea straw.

[Sola]

I have since mulched very heavily:wink:, it doesn't seem to be growing much atm but might accelerate as it warms up.

It got a dose of seaweed fertiliser but nothing much else as it's only growing slowly.

Unfortunately the leaves are yellowing a little, and the veins look a bit more defined. I think it and a few other plants in my garden are deficient

in something. Any ideas?

Edited October 31, 2010 by Sola

[kindness]

Wait a while for it to settle in. My caapi's drop leaves and whole lengths of vine / shoots when they get moved to different positions or when they aren't happy for whatever reason - they then shoot out growth again when they settle into new pots / positions.

In order to help with your soil I think more information would be required. Yellowness of leaves can indicate a nitrogen deficiency... I'm not a horticulture student as some on the forum are though... they may be able to help more.

[Magicdirt]

Yellow leaves can be a sign of magnesium deficiency especially if the veins are still dark, but yellowing leaves in general are a normal part of the growth cycle. Plants transport nutrients from older leaves to newer growing areas which can leave the older growth yellow.

If the yellowing is showing on new younger growth then you have a problem, but if it's just the older leaves I wouldn't worry too much.

Give the plants a feed of charlie carp or power feed together with seasol and they should green up.

If you think it could be a magnesium deficiency some epsom salts diluted in water at a rate of about 1 tsp per litre, water it all over the leaves and the soil. I'd try this on something else in the garden first before I put it on a caapi vine and if it greens up the other plants maybe you do need magnesium.

Check the PH of your soil too if it is too acid or alkaline the plants won't be able to use the nutrients efficiently.

[Sola]

Thanks for the info, I've used some epsom salts on a couple of succulents and a Brugmansia that definitely had yellowing on

their new leaves. I've got some trace element rock dust coming as well, as I think most of the soil here will be the same.

Hopefully this does the trick, then I'll use it on the caapi as well.

At least it's growing again, just planting it out of it's pot really slowed it's growth for almost a week. Also I put a plastic bag over

it's guard last night as it was quite cold. It must have worked because it wasn't set back at all, infact it's noticably grown since yesterday .

I'll check the pH again too, haven't done it for a while and I did add a lot of soil and compost to the area where it's planted .

[Sola]

Some discussion in other threads prompted me to report on progress. The caapi is nearly out of the guard I supplied it with and is

now over the initial shock of being transplanted. It seems to be growing a lot more now. I feed with seaweed solution and usually have

it heavily mulched but as it requires more water the mulch breaks down faster as well. But it will be topped up again shortly .

After this initial success I have picked out a couple of other locations that I think will also be suitable. I want to try several variations

on the microclimate. To get sufficint cover from wind this site is a little more shady than I would like but as it grows through the gap

I've cut for it there should be plenty of light.

All the same happy with growth and am looking forward to seeing a large plant itf.

[random]

Thanks for taking the time to share the pics, everything looks lovely and green too, they all look quite happy. Can't wait to see it when its bigger, will be awesome.

[herbal_hindsight]

Out of pure curiosity.... how large/old is it recommended to let a plant get before it's suitable to take cuttings... generally when I take cuttings I go by the rule of taking a piece approx the length of my little finger. Does this apply to caapi or does the girth play a big role aswell as my younger plant is still quite thin.

Great thread!

I'll have to start taking pics of mine aswell... I use to have a caapi cutting in a 1/2 wine barrel. I used clear uv-protected perspex around the outside of the barrel to protect the plant from cold winds and rain in winter and to contain any humidity i was able to create. Sadly that plant ended up dying on me due to a large shift in location [moved house]

It was devistating to see her go but I saw it all as a great learning curve. I am currently limited by funds but am interested in investing in a large rectangular plantar box that I can enclose like a humidity dome using perspex with irrigation [kept around 24 degrees celsius using a fish tank heater with a temperature controller attached to keep the soil at a warmer temp in the colder months] with a hydrometer [to test humidity levels] and a front opening in the perspex [door] so I can still access the plant easily for fertilising/weeding/etc

I am convinced that over time whether it be months, years or decades... a lot of plants can be adapted to the local climate gradually... eventually creating a stronger plant that can be grown from cutting or seed [multiple generations] to create a variety suitable to the colder climate...

It seems like a lot of effort but I feel it's a plant worthy of it's own customised microclimate... I also have a similiar design to grow a Theobroma cacao tree... I also use to have one growing but it sadly died of a common disease known as Frosty Pod Rot [Diseases of the Cocoa Tree (Theobroma cacao)

I personally love being told I can't grow a certain plant/tree in this climate as it's a challenge I have defeated before and it makes the gardening experience even more exciting...

Never say Never ;-)

Edited February 19, 2011 by herbal_hindsight

[planthelper]

Out of pure curiosity.... how large/old is it recommended to let a plant get before it's suitable to take cuttings... generally when I take cuttings I go by the rule of taking a piece approx the length of my little finger. Does this apply to caapi or does the girth play a big role aswell as my younger plant is still quite thin.

Great thread!

 

yes, the girth of the heel of the cutting should at least be as thick as 1 1/2 match sticks or so, 5 mm or thicker is better....

[Sola]

Thanks for the cutting information, I'm not at a stage yet where I can do that but am hoping to ITF.

The colder weather has meant the growth has almost completely halted. I was wondering if caapi would get the required

amount of light for good growth if I had it near a large window inside? At least then it would be warmer, I'm not transplanting

the one in the ground I've been lucky enough to get another one and was thinking of a slightly different approach.

I will of course want it in the ground eventually but to get it through winter it might be better to have it inside, I'm really not sure.

This year we barely had a summer so there wasn't the growth I expected unfortunately.

I'm thinking of setting up a more substantial hot house as well.

[random]

Quick, somebody slap me! My caapi dried looking cutting is growing outside in freezing Adelaide!

It has green leaf shoot thingies coming out of bumps up its stem! Six of them in fact!!!

wtf!

Perhaps there is hope for our caapi in SA after all, mine is growing outside in Autumn!! with merely a plastic coke bottle over it.

Way too exciting.

[Sola]

That's awesome, I'd keep it in the hottest microclimate you have with plenty of light.

Most of my plants are in the ground but if you might move at some stage I'd just put it in the biggest pot you have.

I'm not sure if watering with luke warm water helps but I'm thinking it does.

Mine have seemingly stalled on growth with the weather but hopefully they'll get a bit more growth before winter.

[random]

Thanks sola for the advice

its still steadily growing more in the last few days so seems happy still.

Perhaps moving it inside near a window/heater after I re-pot it would that be ok?

I seriously would be heartbroken if I accidentally killed it!!

[planthelper]

Perhaps moving it inside near a window/heater after I re-pot it would that be ok?

I seriously would be heartbroken if I accidentally killed it!!

 

to my feelings it's more difficult to over winter a caapi indoors next to a heat source, than out doors (as long as it doesn't get too cold, but if sheltered they survive -1 deg C easy).

if you have a veranda or any other location which resembles a cold house, than i would try that, and not the indoors, caapi hate, indoor heating.

maybe if you build a humidety dome around her, she would be fine indoors.

[Sola]

I think that may be a job for today, purpose built hot house for my caapi's to overwinter.

I'm hoping to get the remainder in the ground before the real cold weather arrives.

Thanks for the info about the indoor heat, did think about trying that but sounds like it'll be easier to keep them inside.

I guess the artificial heating reduces humidity quite a bit and caapi wouldn't like that.

Cheers