How do you meditate?

[hutch]

How would you think if you didn't learn a language?

 

How would you learn a language if you didn't think.....

[lofty86]

Im weary of machines and technology to aid meditation i was using the holosync program a few years back and i became very sensitive to electrical diturbances to the point id suffer attacks of vertigo and tinitis whenever somone used the microwave whatever frequency it had tuned me into wasnt very practical for an urban setting

[Max Cady]

is tv a meditation machine to guide the masses? if so my work colleagues are guru's ha ha

[hutch]

is tv a meditation machine to guide the masses? if so my work colleagues are guru's ha ha

 

You might be onto something there josho...tv does put people into a trance like state with an intense focus for the program only (hence programing I guess ). If I could let my mind go as easy as I do to the mighty god tv...

an interesting side note..We made a decision a month ago that we would disconnect our Austar (pay tv) subscription...now before anyone jumps down my throat, I have wanted to rid myself of it for years but my wife, who has mobility issues spends most of her days in front of it so it has been a tough task to get her to agree. I am after all only her husband... We just can't afford it and eventually common sense takes over. Anyway, we did disconnect and for being good customers for the past 10 years they have agreed to keep it switched on for two months free of charge... maybe they are trying to hold their numbers but it is still pretty decent of them in my books. So a big thanks to Austar..

I think after a short withdrawal period I could get over tv....but never the internet..down with Krudd/Conroy and internet censoring...sorry off track a bit there...

tv guides and influences every part of our lives and most of it is damaging..

[paradox]

i like the way eckhart tolle puts it. metaphorically speaking, a practice like meditation quiets your mind & raises your awareness ABOVE the level of thoughts, where as watching television more lowers your awareness to a point BELOW the level of thought, so that while we are taking in the information from the box we are effectively pretty well comatose, somewhere close to the opposite of hyper aware..

[hutch]

i like the way eckhart tolle puts it. metaphorically speaking, a practice like meditation quiets your mind & raises your awareness ABOVE the level of thoughts, where as watching television more lowers your awareness to a point BELOW the level of thought, so that while we are taking in the information from the box we are effectively pretty well comatose, somewhere close to the opposite of hyper aware..

 

What I said just better put

[Max Cady]

tv guides and influences every part of our lives and most of it is damaging..

 

near the start of this thread you said you can't be away for that long in regards to vipassana now I get what you mean I moved back to tassie after spending 10 years living on the gold coast I live and care for my 92 year old grandmother and work as a disability support worker working with people with intellectual and developmental disability's as someone who spent the best part of 5 years working backstage on theatre productions I've got a bad case of cabin fever I need some sort of outlet.

I can't let go to meditate or get there always in the back of my mind I feel the need to be present for others.. I'll work through it I'll get there thing's will change I know they will.

as for tv ? at work co-workers and clients just watch it constantly at home my nan watches it constantly it's sort of like religion it gives them some sort of comfort and I have nothing I can give them to replace it I can't see them reading Gurdjieff or Casteneda but it makes it a lot harder for me to make good choices when I'm bombarded with it.

peace man hope I didn't stray too far off topic.

[santiago]

in my early teen years i for a few years was into OBE (out of body experience) read a book by some guy called Jose Silva. my god i loved that book it promised me a secret world of freedom and most importantly astral sex...yoinks what 14-15 boy wouldnt, being a virgin of course it probably was my main reason and also to try scare my best friend who i would 'travel' to and record details.

the book did basically promise astral travel and in hindsight was probably meditation based. if you put minor techniqes aside it boiled down to colours, levels, suggestion and physical relaxation. without getting to complicated you imagined being 10th floor in a red room whist you relaxed your toes, then elevator down to pink calves, level 8 purple abs etc until you get to blue temples level 1. the book said it would take 3 months to complete, so i did it every night and nothing happened.

one night it all worked in sync...first of all the back of my neck tingled, there was a electric crackling and i started to pull from my body, got about 10cm out whilst in the prone position and freaked out, zip sucked back into body and was too scared ever to go back again...my mind would not allow it and never will again, it was positively scary.

then one day the casino had a hypnotist, he was successful in what he did as a show..our mate was a glassy there and suggested we come along, into the show hypnotist asked for crowd members, i went up and looked into the light in front of 500ppl and he pushed me backwards whilst suggesting "you will, you will..your going too, yes you will fast and fluent whilst i looked at the floodlight. suddenly he said "sorry rejoin the crowd". now my wingman that night antony was a reserved kinda average guy. he went up and turned into a chicken, ran around at half time looking for a pumpkin...he looked at us on his comedic search....we called out to him "snap outta it" but his eyes were manic, he looked like a dead seat loony sweating and stuff.

My glassy mate was a dead set evil prick and every get together we had after my evil prick glassy friend said dome kinda key word which the hypnotist used to release his spell on antony. My evil mate made antony literally urinate in his pants 3 times in front of lotsa people. It really happened and i dont understand how anybody aged 20 or so would do that with a clean personality history previously.

All i know is that somehow people can let go the safety switch of the mind through different methods however in my own mind i seemed to be programmed that the conscious mind is more powerful than the unconscious mind.

[woof woof woof]

meditation is done in many ways. basically what meditation comes down to is letting emotions that trigger thoughts settle, allowing yourself a deeper look inside yourself.

concentration excerisizes are the basis for letting your mind quiet down. you can concentrate on breath. on thoughts, on feelings or an object..... the more tranquil the thoughts the more tranquil the sea of emotions (i.o.w. the neurotransmittor soup in your brain)

you can visualize a rough sea becomming calm after a storm as a way of calming the emotions...... but should your mind want to make the sea rougher instead of calmer..... then you might have other priorities (more important things to think about)your mind and body are not stupid.

you can visualize a desert from above a hilltop...... should a little insect or bird drop into that dream.... obeserve it...... you can make whole innerworlds like this..... even live in them... with time your daydreams will reflect or incorporate more and more of reality and more and more intuitive things will start to spring up.

some people focus on the breath..... some people do one pointedness visualization..... you have to find out what eventually works out for you to quiet your mind.

the aim with meditation is to teach your body that there is a moment for time out.... to chillax to the max!

I would say..... explore your thoughts..... the more you see what triggers your thoughts the better you will understand how to prevent the silly ranting of your mind...... look at what triggers your thoughs ...analize them carefully/consciously... take that 10 to 15 minute time out for yourself to go over your day.... maybe you do this with a ciggy or with a cup of joe in the morning... or maybe you sit and meditate and aum.....

what it comes down to is mindfulness..... expanding your awaeness.

btw..... if you have too busy of a life your mind will be racing too much..... so cut out that rock concert out of your schedule and just take that/those woman for a stroll in nature.... :-)

[ThunderIdeal]

i can empathise, santiago

when i was a teenager i was on the cusp of astral projection on more than one occasion. an electric energy pounded between my head and feet like a piston. as much as i tried i couldn't keep my cool with that happening, it was so physically (?) intense. there were other occasions (attempting different things) where i tapped into immense energy and had to tear myself away from it, then kinda finding myself stunned, hardly believing what had just happened, and i think a bit out of sorts from the urgency with which i terminated those experiences.

[paradox]

i thought of another worthwhile point... until you are very highly advanced then it isn't about GETTING RID of our thoughts, it's not even about residing in a state of no thoughts. thats ultimately what we aim towards i guess but until we are very advanced it's pretty well utterly impossible except very briefly (or with psychs) & in the long run a state of no thought is more of a by-product of the practice... the point i feel is bit by bit changing the habit patterns of our minds so that you can much more freely simply observe all the thoughts & feelings that come without getting involved, identifying with them & getting lost in them again... i think it's about not taking your thoughts so seriously.. we have trillions of random thoughts every day & while some of them are probably very useful, most of them are completely involuntary & really by their very nature do not represent any objective truth whatsoever as those interpratations are wholely based on a number of random finite factors specific to each person..

when you can observe the self impartially more as simply something you happen to be experiencing & a product of this mind/body phenomenon i feel it can help give you a much broader perspective on yourself & your place in the world & therefore much more clarity into why things go wrong.. i feel perhaps these kind of habits of mind are integral to a fundemental moment to moment daily experience of unity (you've never felt more at home until you've willingly lost your self, however briefly) & you can't forget the kicks that come from experiencing the world when your mind has been crafted into a much more finely tuned microscope.. not that i can really talk at the moment

Edited June 19, 2010 by paradox

[coin]

It's very interesting that you ask "do you need drugs?" in the post title because one of the most purifying/transforming aspects of the development of (meditative) concentration and the altered states of consciousness that result from the mind's coherence/single-pointedness is the sudden realisation that highly desirable/blissful states which are far superior to the every-day mundane states of pleasure, in terms of their quality & refinement & absolute fulfillment, are achievable without any input from any sense-organ or any external factor. This is usually a total 180 to how we've lived up until this point.

What the mind has always craved through seeking things externally, and that we've been conditioned to believe is only achievable through sense-contact/external factors (chocolate, girlfriend, car, dream job, charity work) suddenly arises for the first time without any such basis, and you can imagine how much the mind is "blown" by this new revelation - bliss, happiness, contentment, equanimity, etc. all arising internally as a result of concentration. Of course, these states fade away when the meditation ends, but they do leave a residue in the mind that carries on through normal life, as well as a transformation/reduction in the conditioned nature of outwardly seeking satisfaction & fulfillment - an ever-present drive which constantly imbues life with varying degrees of stress and worry.

This aspect of meditation (called concentration, calm abiding, shamatha, etc.) is achieved through the cultivation of sustained concentration on a particular object, the most common being the breath because the quality of the breath is intimately connected with the state of mind.

The untrained mind has great difficulty initially with staying on the object of concentration (breath, or whatever), so an aid or crutch is used. So each individual should have a technique/crutch that is suited to their predilections/personality. Breath counting is very common and many people find it suitable (it has advantages over some other aids) but if it doesn't work for a particular individual they may use a mantra (to mark the incoming and outgoing breath) or visualisation (to mark the incoming and outgoing breath) if they are happier working mentally with sound or vision. It should be something that the mind find fairly pleasant (or at least not entirely objectionable) or why would you even want to persist with it?

Another form of meditation that can lead to concentration (shamatha) is the typical metta bhavana (as it is called in buddhist practice...the generation/cultivation of loving friendliness/kindness). This can be used by people who enjoy it or find this technique comes easily.

Solid concentration is then used as a foundation for insight/vipassana...which is where it really begins, in a way. Different teachers give different emphasis to the ratio of practice of shamatha/vipassana, or whether concentration is first developed before continuing to vipassana.

The OP said "try as I might I am unable to master it" - well, try as I might, I am unable to master the piano - but what exactly does that mean, and is there not clear improvement anyway? I couldn't just practice once or twice a week and expect to start playing well. In the beginning, the effort required is strong. With each stage the effort required for refinement becomes subtler. Most likely the obstacle in the beginning is commitment.

Commitment comes through trust, faith, conviction, etc. If you're not thoroughly convinced: about the benefits of meditation, that you actually want these benefits, that you personally are capable of achieving these, have seen the positive effects in others, etc. you will never really commit to the sort of practice that is necessary to make progress.

But how to be convinced/have faith in something which is totally subjective, which you have never experienced? How can you know that these people that talk and write about meditation and enlightenment aren't just either crazy, talking bullshit, or genuine but deluded.

Well, that is one of the enormous benefits of concentration (shamatha) practice. Once you sort of stumble into these first stages of altered consciousness (jhana state) and you have this realisation that, yes, something is *really* going on here, thought has stopped (there are sometimes little blips in the first stages), it's not all mystical bullshit, it is achievable without any external factor/substance, if I [regular guy] can do it - why aren't so many others doing it & why does hardly anyone practice this when it's been known about and written about clearly for at least three thousand years?!, it feels healthy and purifying residing in these states, and it actually feels good (which helps!) -- that is almost always when fairly solid conviction to power ahead arises -- it becomes experientially real.

Enough of my ramble...good luck

One last note...I don't want to say that jhana states are better than psychdelic highs or pleasure states achieved through use of substances like MDMA, or whatever. Obviously when these jhana states arise, there is some neurological/neurotransmitter correlate. I'd rather not offer any personal speculation.

However, these states are very stable (with a little practice), and I've never heard someone speak of a jhana hangover, though the first jhana can get a little too intense at first for some people. But these are the sort of sustainable states that slowly and steadily change the "happiness set point" that is being discussed and researched a lot in the last 10 years around the topics of personal tendencies toward happiness vs depression.

Edited June 26, 2010 by coin

[coin]

I guess I can't shut up today...

One other aspect that requires looking at, always, but especially if practice is difficult despite a sensible choice of technique, good guidance/research and perseverance -- what supports the practice? I won't go into detail but it helps to start reducing music/radio (especially songs with a 'hook'/riffs :-)), television, over-eating or heavy/junk foods, sex that is may be something other than loving & respectful, aggressive/argumentative situations, excessive sports/physical training...etc, etc. These things will keep "refluxing" in the mind like a greasy burger. Good sleep and all those other good things will help a lot. Don't worry about perfecting these supportive elements first though - gradually refine them alongside the practice.

[mud]

i smile too:)

and reckon the daoist meditations and visualizations

fit the average trippers constitution

better than most other techniques.

And this stuff can take a tripper very far, very quickly. We're already using the shortcuts- no use sitting in full lotus for years, when you could just learn testicular breathing and suck that chi up your spine!

My positive experiences range from complete psychedelic dissolution,

to an immense feeling of peace.. to simply getting a sore lower back, lol.

Mostly, I think that life can become the mindfulness of meditation. Being present, and calm. With each 'practice' being simply the tool that can hone an ever present, constant diligence to being right here and now.

[paradox]

Mostly, I think that life can become the mindfulness of meditation. Being present, and calm. With each 'practice' being simply the tool that can hone an ever present, constant diligence to being right here and now.

 

very well put

[drugo]

With each 'practice' being simply the tool that can hone an ever present, constant diligence to being right here and now.

 

Careful to not throw the baby out with the bath water. Many a folk from our western tribe may be disabled by an infatuation with contemplating past and future, and general cognitive gymnastics for that matter. But, in my opinion, thinking, as a devise, can be pretty handy, though of course dangerous, if you let it get out of hand!

Is it not helpful to inject the now with speculations drawn from thought, such as contemplating when markets are open so when you arrive in town to get groceries you are not disappointed, or thinking about how long it will take to travel to a friends, family members, work, or any valuable commitment thus enabling connections to be made.

Perhaps, like dealing with those pesky and cheeky blobs of energy and agency in the astral, we should command and conquer are rational capabilities and not be a slave to them. Recognise there place and not be misplaced by what i think coin or paradox once called 'an insane state of mind'.

[Magicdirt]

When I broke my back meditation was the only way I could get any releif from the pain, sometimes I would meditate for more than 6 hours a day.

I had many OOBE's and I beleive it opened my third eye.

I would do a Kundalini meditation and I could slow my heartbeat to less than 15 bpm.

Medition (especially at first) is not about having an empty mind with no thoughts, that doesn't even happen when you are asleep. It's about aknowledging thoughts and letting them go.

Something to meditate on helps enormously, an image even an inaminate object to focus on and direct your focus.

Start with something simple and learn to control your thoughts.

A mind is like a monkey in a fruit market, bounding aimlessly from one thing that grabs its attention to the next.

Your mind will go where you direct it.

Or it will bound around like a monkey in a fruit market.

To me meditation is not about "Stilling the mind" it is about focusing it willfully.

Stillness comes later.

These days I just do Qi gong.

[devance]

Jack Vance, [The Languages of Pao]

http://www.google.com/search?q=Jack+Vance+the+[Languages+of+Poa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

So just about language as if social manipulatator from outertspace [whated women and many][good book even for communists,socialists as seen as a limiting mental thought.

[Tangata Manu]

My two cents:

Everyone can meditate, we all do it dozens of times each day:

[vual]

Edited July 11, 2010 by vual

[vual]

Had to read threw the entire massively long Topic until i get to the end... and there at the end.. low and behold Tangata Manu wins the trophy!!

Playing the computer = Meditation.

Riding a bike = Meditation.

Watching Tv = meditation.

Masterbating = meditation.

Doing a Shit = Meditation.

What is meditation?

Meditation is simply concentrating on 1 thing with out distraction,

So you know when you are driving your car and you "Get in the Zone" ... Well you are meditating.

Answer in regards to the original question:

Do i need drugs to meditate?

.....Each to there own..... Fuck the Gurus!! <--

[ThunderIdeal]

those things can be meditation. they usually aren't so don't kid yourself.

[vual]

those things can be meditation. they usually aren't so don't kid yourself.

 

....Each to there own IMO, I find for me they are, after living at a mahayana buddhist temple on and off for over 3 years now I can assure you there is no self kidding going on here.

Everyone has there own way to approach things, thought I would share mine.

[Tangata Manu]

Tell me of Meditation, and I will tell you of Green.

[ThunderIdeal]

....Each to there own IMO, I find for me they are, after living at a mahayana buddhist temple on and off for over 3 years now I can assure you there is no self kidding going on here.

Everyone has there own way to approach things, thought I would share mine.

 

i won't argue with that, i just don't want anyone to think that they're already meditating just by being alive.

my original wording was a bit off with the 'dont kid yourself', i'm sorry about that.

Edited July 11, 2010 by ThunderIdeal