Classix VS dissos

[mutant]

about compatibility, which I use as a term in the poll. by this I mean a more natural something, don't really know how to put it. more like 'home'.

other than the results of the poll, which I really don't know what they could 'show'

I find this a fascinating idea. Some people are more drawn by dissos, maybe less in these communities, and some to the classics. Which people, why, why is that? What are those characteristics that render one more copmatible with a certain class of drugs, while others 'scare' them? In my point of view, this is about using alternative methods of thinking in our quest to unwind the map of our minds/brains.

People might have special places in their minds for all good exepreiences they have had using drugs, but what is it that makes us like this or that a little bit more?

This poll could be done in a wider array of drugs, but I find the disso VS classic comparison pretty interesting

Peace

Edited June 3, 2010 by mutant

[Magicdirt]

Some of the "classix" can be an excellent tool for self analysis/introspection and can be very helpfull.

The "dissos" I've tried ie nitro and mescaline were just an altered state that didn't seem to have much deeper meaning for me.

But most drugs have their place - horses for courses so to speak.

[ThunderIdeal]

i'd consider mescaline more akin to a classic..

limited exposure to dissos

[Magicdirt]

Woops I meant aminita muscaria not mescaline

[Psiloman]

I find this a fascinating idea. Some people are more drawn by dissos, maybe less in these communities, and some to the classics. Which people, why, why is that? What are those characteristics that render one more copmatible with a certain class of drugs, while others 'scare' them? In my point of view, this is about using alternative methods of thinking in our quest to unwind the map of our minds/brains.

A note: i have met quite a lot of people that have no prefference (meaning feel them both compatible) that even sometimes use them together. Actually i have met more people that use both "classes" than people who preffer one over the other. Personal i havent seen any difference and ...it wouldnt surprise me if its not as clear cut as "People that can fit their prefference within a single class".

What else,btw, do you think that the term "classix" encorporates except "classic" in the sense of "studied for a long time as model serotoninergics"?Is it a class based on time? What flavor does this word have,in what way are they "classic"? Sometimes it seems as if the weight of the term "classic" ( or the term "disso" if you have it well established in your "life dictionary"/"world view") might overshadow the items each term tries to describe or may "insinuate" far more than each item belonging to it, really is.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Psiloman

[faustus]

for me, classic hallucinogen = primary mode of action is 5-HT2A agonism.

dissociative is a tad harder, they don't seem to share common pharmacology. probably better to class them based on subjective experience of dissociation, separation of consciousness from sensory modalities.

for a long time i was convinced that people are drawn to particular drugs based on personality. cocaine/meth = egomaniacal, explosive personality, heroin = tortured soul, implosive personality. but when you read about the heroin drought, in the absence of smack, a lot of herion addicts just shifted over to meth. it was quite remarkable. so i did a bit more research. last time i read, studies have shown there are no profound personality differences between addicts of different drug classes.

my whole point: i'm not sure you'll get many psychedelic "purists"... people's preferences change frequently and are based on arbitrary things such as availability, the company they keep and lack of exposure to other drugs. if people prefer classics, it's probably cos there's more of them to be exposed to, while dissociatives can be a bit harder to track down. i've never encountered anyone who's not been blown away by 150 mg IM of ketamine.

there's also probably some snobbery in favour of the classic hallucinogens.

Edited June 4, 2010 by faustus

[Chiral]

Faustas ^^ Right on, there are definitely people who choices change a lot, people who are not solely dedicated to one substance, rather poly drug users who will use what ever is around or accessible at the time, drugs go in and out of favour with some.

I'd be interested to get your analysis on someone who was interested in all psychoactive compounds from an early age and almost dedicated themselves to the pursuit of each or as many as they could locate over life purely in an attempt to know what each compound felt like.

[faustus]

I'd be interested to get your analysis on someone who was interested in all psychoactive compounds from an early age and almost dedicated themselves to the pursuit of each or as many as they could locate over life purely in an attempt to know what each compound felt like.

for various reasons, i can't go into detail but in a nutshell:

impulsive noncomformity + openness to experience

[Chiral]

for various reasons, i can't go into detail but in a nutshell:

impulsive noncomformity + openness to experience

 

Whoa....for someone who can't say much, that's pretty bloody close...scary.

[Sonny Jim]

I don't consider salvia to be a dissociative.

I have found mescaline, LSD and psilocybin containing mushrooms to be useful for personal growth.

I find nitrous oxide and ketamine more of an escape from psychic pain. Good for a night out, usually in combination with a powerful stimulant.

Though I agree, high doses of ketamine are pretty "full on".

Interesting to see what other people think about it.

faustus

I like what you have written in post no.6 of this thread.

[Bread Filter]

I don't consider salvia to be a dissociative.

 

I definitely agree with that at low doses although on the 4th Plateau I had a full OBE so technically I was dissociated but it didn't feel anything like any other dissociative I had ever done.

[mutant]

yep the same with amanitas. in low and mid to high doses they're relatively mild, but in breakthrough dose they're something else.

[t st tantra]

unfortunately it seems i can no longer tolerate the after effects of amanita.

post benzo syndrome,bad hangover the next day then withdrawls on the third and following days.....gaba gaba hey!

t s t .

[mutant]

wow this is very interesting tst, you're gold man! I had noticed the correlation and in net reports and real life persons, but I was under the impression they're non-addicitve, unlike other gaba acting stuff. This means that amanitas are a no-no to someone who's trying to quite opiates/banzo/other gaba related sedatives?

magic dirt>>>

amanitas have definate dissociative potential. There are even sub breakthrough doses that dissociation begins to take place, a fine line there mind you, that you can become halfway dissociated without falling in stupor, actually can be experienced as a strangle stimulation by some people. Also emphathogen effect, openness and bliss can be experienced also in sub-breakthrough doses. Breakthrough doses are surely disso. On the rather lengthy come up it's becoming increasingly difficult to do two things at a time, or even moving while talking. Eventually you're told to lie down and you let you self fall in the state.

faust>>>

my whole point: i'm not sure you'll get many psychedelic "purists"... people's preferences change frequently and are based on arbitrary things such as availability, the company they keep and lack of exposure to other drugs. if people prefer classics, it's probably cos there's more of them to be exposed to, while dissociatives can be a bit harder to track down. i've never encountered anyone who's not been blown away by 150 mg IM of ketamine.

interesting..

yeah you got a point, disso's have probably less demand and less profit, not really commercial... various reasons why's this..

I am not fishing for something in particular, but I am sure the poll results would be pretty interesting , at least to me, if more people voted...

Edited June 6, 2010 by mutant

[Psiloman]

yeah you got a point, disso's have probably less demand and less profit, not really commercial... various reasons why's this..

Depends!

When i was in England and ketamine was making its rounds ,it was very very sought after by many people.People used to buy it ,bring it in parties, usually insuflating it.People that had ketamine for sale had quite some customers.

[mutant]

hmmm yeah, I suppose they were not snorting it alone in parties, though, huh?

[Psiloman]

From what i have seen :

a)They were snorting it alone in parties

b)they were snorting it with friends in parties

c)Some of them were snorting it alone in their home

d) They were snorting it in clubs ,sometimes in combination with other substances

e)Others were injecting it, IM usually, either alone or with friends, some at parties at secluded rooms,some at home.

Some were withdrawn, some were dancing,some were talkative, others were silent.

To put it in short,before the list runs out of alphabet letters to mention each and one case, i have seen the same pattern of use around as with most substances. I havent noticed anything "out of the *drug world* ordinary" as far as dissasociatives are concerned.

Come to think of it, i also knew people in England that used Amanita muscaria at parties in small doses akin to a relaxant (see :alcohol). I mostly mention this for other people ,mutant you know of this effect of muscaria, since it seems that muscarias have a rather bad reputation "online". I have seen also DXM making its rounds usually in cough syrup form. Propably the most "exotic" dissasociative i have seen was a small batch of MK-801 from some...lab fellows that more or less kept it in a small group due to shortage -hmm if they had more ,would they dose the world with it ? ;) -

Edited June 7, 2010 by Psiloman

[PhoenixSon]

Edited June 7, 2010 by spacemonk

[Sonny Jim]

I definitely agree with that at low doses although on the 4th Plateau I had a full OBE so technically I was dissociated but it didn't feel anything like any other dissociative I had ever done.

 

Not sure what you mean by 4th plateau but I am talking about a full blown salvia experience (20X smoked).

There was nothing dissociative about the experience IMHO. I found it to be extremely confronting, to both my psyche and body.

Very powerful and if we have to classify things, I would put it in a league of its own.

[mutant]

Psiloman>

okay, fair enough.... I thought the dominant party use was in combo with other stuff, probably stim stuf like coke/mdma/speed, but yeah, probably K has lots of fans in places were it might be more available or somehow it has been embraced by a portion of drug culture or marketed and pushed sufficiently... I was probably conjecturing judging by the retarded greek drug 'scene'

....and yeah, amanitas can be used recreationally and they do remind alcohol a lot in that dose range, so I guess you're right in that 'almost anything could be used recreationaly and in parties'

Sonny Jim

Not sure what you mean by 4th plateau but I am talking about a full blown salvia experience (20X smoked).

There was nothing dissociative about the experience IMHO. I found it to be extremely confronting, to both my psyche and body. Very powerful and if we have to classify things, I would put it in a league of its own.

Depends on what do you regard dissociation. Dissociatives in my understanding are classed as such because they cause a separation of mind and body in some dose [this reminds of death, nde, ego-death, inexistance, anesthesia, lack of ego, lack of consciouness or lack of a certain degree of consciousness, and among other things real halluciations can occur].

Salvia does this, and it does this very easily indeed, if using extracts. It also has the anesthetic feel and in general matches the profile of a dissociative, probably being the less toxic one. It being 'confronting', 'very powerful' , even terrifying for some, doesn't say anything about it being or not being a dissociative. Many dissociatives terrify some people, salvia more so because of the intense timeline of the experience.

So salvia feels probably more alien because the dissociation [separation] is happening too quickly when smoking, especially when using ridiculously potent extracts like x20 and above, that this transition almost always is very often described as the strangest thing, the majority of people have a baffling, incomprehensible first [breakthrough] experience. Slow it down, and it's not so strange anymore...

[Psiloman]

By the way its also a "cultural" issue i think. For example i have even noticed differences of how the "major cannabis scene" is different in Greece and in England. In Greece it seems as if the scene is more "anxious",more tied to "magia" (a version of "being cool"), and it seems to revolve more around cannabis itself rather what it might enable you to do. In England things seemed more relaxed, and cannabis -which appeared to be plenty, not as if procuring...uranium ,with long waits and shady people- seemed to be used more as an adjunct to activites.

So the differences might not be so much as a "class diffence" but cultural difference.

[mutant]

So the differences might not be so much as a "class diffence" but cultural difference.

indeed it's a cultural thing too

which in turn is very related with law status, greek law is partly responsible for the awfully bad use and misinformation that keeps getting spread in greece...

[SunChaser]

indeed it's a cultural thing too

which in turn is very related with law status, greek law is partly responsible for the awfully bad use and misinformation that keeps getting spread in greece...

 

Law and government propaganda has nothing to do with how the society view drug use dude. 

The US used to have manatory jail sentences for all drug use and in some circumstances still have some of the most draconian drug laws in the developed world, the US government is also nortorious for the propaganda against illegal drugs. Yet the US still has the highest rate of drug use in the world.

Truth is westerners just love there drugs. Experimental drug use just seems to be far more ingrained in western culture than in European culture. 

 

I have no idea why westerners like drugs more than Europeans. But if I had to guess, I'd say it was because we're a younger culture and there for less idealistic. 

BTW, imo, ketamine is horrible stuff and the after effects is the worst head fuck I have ever experienced. Having said that, I used to know people that loved the shit and would use it just like speed, which used to flip me out, cause it only ever turned me to shit! But drugs have different effects on different people, I guess.

[mutant]

Law and government propaganda has nothing to do with how the society view drug use dude.

Lol, OK, whatever, dude.

[ThunderIdeal]

I have no idea why westerners like drugs more than Europeans.

 

just pointing out

europe (much of it) IS "the western world". north america and australia are like recent additions.