Warning on Subs

[mescalito]

Lay down for these ones and let go...nothing like cubes.

Definitely a transdimentional gate like no other.

[Guest PolyDrugAbuser]

Psilocybe subaeruginosa is a 'deep, dark haunting trip'? It's psilocybin/psilocin. Doesn't matter if it comes from a Cubensis, Cyanescens or a tablet. Anyone who subscribes to the notion that the effects of a commensurate dose of psilocybin/psilocin from a Cubensis mushroom as opposed to subaeruinosa/cyanescens, differ in any way is an idiot.

[gerbil]

LOL gotta love anti-islamic drug abusing trolls with such great wisdom, please sir may i have another.

Not only does chemistry differ from species to species in all walks of life, it occurs from individual to individual, you need to get some edumacation. Shulgin even talks about different arms of cactus having different chemistry from the same plant. LOL don't even know why i'm bothering posting this. gerbil got fished in, hook line and sinker...

[Chiral]

Psilocybe subaeruginosa is a 'deep, dark haunting trip'? It's psilocybin/psilocin. Doesn't matter if it comes from a Cubensis, Cyanescens or a tablet. Anyone who subscribes to the notion that the effects of a commensurate dose of psilocybin/psilocin from a Cubensis mushroom as opposed to subaeruinosa/cyanescens, differ in any way is an idiot.

 

LOL, how many different isp's does it take for you to go through a year to re-register and come back to make us laugh...just apply for a lifetime membership and have your own personal trolling forum within, you can lay all your nonesense down in the one forum for those that need a good laugh every so often.

Obviously you are an expert on the differences of minor and major alkaloids in different psychoactive mushrooms around the world, you must be well learned in substrate metabolisms and enzyme breakdowns in all the different colonies of the world too.

please show us your research papers and the double blindfold testing you have carried out on patients that provides the ethno community with information to back up your ridiculous claims...oh that's right you don't.

good to have you back for a larf though...albeit will be breif until you are popped and have to find another new isp to register under.

pooof...!!!!!!

[Moses]

love,love love subs.

maybe it's my darkside.

5g and up atleast and i also get a lovely after-glow for days after.

oh and subbalteatus are very dreamy a totally different thing IMO.

[sidewayschef]

Must admit the Subs should be handled with care.

I have had them for several seasons now, and always had a differant experience each time.

Doesnt matter how many times I have them, if I get a little ambitious...I always get put back in my place by them.

If taken fresh they can kick in within 15 minutes, is usually 45 from dried stuff.

I always make it a habit not to sample while picking, and recommend others do the same, as even one is enough to skew the vision and make every damn mushroom look like a sub.

in saying that though, I still love them, but yes wouldnt exactly got to the night clubs on them(Although I have before, ended messily)

[∂an]

Take it from me I am one of the typical indestructible types who thinks no psychedelic is too strong for me, bring it on as hard as you like type..you know what I mean, I dosed 29gms of subs last year one time, then again dosed 12gms with 15gms of subs together, then again another 15gm sub trip. It wasn't pretty and I am probably quite lucky not to have poisoned myself or hurt myself mentally or even physically during or after these sessions. I have the memories under my belt and feel I learned an immense amount of intricate detail about life and things everyone including myself overlook all the time, but I'm quite sure I don't ever need to be so gun ho and risk such levels again.

 

dude, was that 29 DRIED grams of subaeruginosa? i would love to hear your story one day. apparently there was a talk by an african shaman at EGA 2009 that said he had done 30 grams of cubes and spent the night in the bathroom as when he opened the door the world had disappeared completely. anyone see or know of this talk and the brave souls name?

i met a guy who has done 8.5 grams of cubensis, 4 pairs chewed down on an empty stomach. syrian rue seeds powdered and vaporised after about 3 hours. according to their account, their is a parallel dimension chocked full of 'spirits' living in symbiosis with all living plants and animals, and thus our destruction of the natural world is causing them many sleepless nights. the visible world is only the tip of an ice berg that descends into the inky depths of infinity... however they felt for them that pushing the dose much higher than 10 grams may endanger the mind, as at this dose they felt a temporary schizophrenia emerge that was a little alarming.

this guy had done subs once before, about 2 grams at a folk music festival, along with 2 grams of cubes. due to repetitive use over the past few days, the trip was not that spectacular however.

it is interesting that maria sabina did not like to take the san isidro cubensis, preferring the native Psilocybe caerulescens. given that subaeruginosa is also an endemic species, perhaps the spirit of the land is truly infused within it. but more likely, it is the unique chemical makeup of subaeruginosa that gives it its unique hallucinogenic qualities. a high percentage of baeocystin perhaps? apparently p baeocystis has a strong body load as a previous post described.

once you have taken the mushroom, it is inside you forever.

peace, k

[mutant]

Mutant I recal a thread of yours that you showed some nice amazing woodlovers you found, probably azures...have you not tried them ?

...please do and then make a comment, I'm sure you will be not so flippant about them after-wards.

 

No, I haven't, to your astonishment , but some folks did - and they are propably not azures.

So what if I do, silly billy? I don't have enything else [psilo] to compare this to, remember ? I never did any psilo shrooms so far.

I suggested some people here find bridgesii darker than peruv/pach, and Pan subbalteatus more euphoric/friendly than other psilos, and wondered [repeat wondered] if this might be simply a potency issue parted with make believe, which is clearly a very real issue with psych takers, especially heavy takers.

I know woodlovers tend to have more psilocin plus some other understudied alkaloids, but I thought my point was worth a response.

Also, IMO/E, novel thinking and discussing opinions is not flippant, taking 30, 15, or 12 grams of such a potent mushroom is.

Edited April 11, 2010 by mutant

[gerbil]

Depending on what species you are trying to ween it out of, but azures can be differentiated between say subs and cyans by looking at their gills, azures should have sinuate gills.

Talking without strong analytical data showing whats in what and amounts, i tend to lean towards what i consider logical in that species to species will differ as well as individual to individual, i mean even within say cannabis, each apparent 'species' differs and strains within that and often seed to seed differs and not particularly an issue of potency, of course you will get more potent and less potent (potency i guess we are basing on a small selection of compounds) but you will also get a expression of other genetic chemistry which can then be further influenced through nutrient and environment. Two different seed lines may hit your funny bone in the same way, number one may also spin your head and make your vision literally turn into a wall of colour, whilst the second while still giggling had no visuals, no head and made every muscle in your body feel completely numb. Was this a matter of potency? if you raised and kept raising #2 will you get the effects of #1?

I personally think there are differences based on my thoughts above, reading and listening to analytical reports, as well apparent field experience and talking to many people with large number of species bioassay. Victorian subs down to a homogenised level and then at say 50mg (a quite active dose) to afoaf gives the same awkard heavy internal feel that a larger amount of them would, but at a base level on the lower of course. Contrasted with cubes for example which in foaf experience can be a bit more out of the body in front of the face, of course it's internal as well, but different in their opinion.

At the same time i do think the potency theory/thought is a good discussion, just pisses me off the way PDA put it, there is no room for discussion and nothing was even really brought to the table to show that they are open to different sides and reasonings of the argument. I think it's silly to think a pure extracted compound will have the same effect as a whole mushroom that has more chemistry going on that with pure compound in pill form, and if a biochemical package differs from a crystalised pure compound, then it generally should differ from another biochemical package.

The bridgesii dark sinister thing is a very good point you brought up and an interesting discussion of the same parallel essentially.

Edited April 12, 2010 by gerbil

[kindness]

Interesting topic.

Thanks Chiral for bravely putting your thoughts out there, it takes guts to say what you believe is right - even more to tell others what they should do... you must be open to criticism therefore willing to learn, noice.

I particularly like your mention of the trance state that some enter when looking for the mushrooms, I remember posting about this a few years ago(?) wondering if anybody else got that. For me I would be physically pushed on the shoulder and spun around in a circle until I would stop in what felt like the right direction to walk, a little like a compass facing north... I would then walk until I found myself needing to spin around again and so on until I would look at my feet and behold a pair of mushrooms. Fucking bizarre shit, this didn't happen to me every time I went looking at mushrooms, it seemed to only happen when there wasn't many around.

Also I agree on giving respect to the forest or place you find them in, give something back from time to time and it will pay dividends I reckon, weird how that works isn't it ;)

The first time I mistakenly ate subs, (thinking they were champignons) I decided that I would get naked, lie around in my bed etc... a few hours later and I relised that I had been lying there for a few hours with my hand in my mouth drooling everywhere and gently tapping the wall - what I think brought me back to reality somewhat was that I was currently pissing myself and it felt warm and nice... then I remembered that as an adult I wasn't supposed to do that... things got kind of weird after that.

yep, be careful with them folks, they can kick your arse - and kick it, and kick it and kick it.. depending on how frigging stupid you are and how many times you need your arse kicked. I'm pretty stupid.

peace

[klip247]

To be honest it's not probably the case that lookalikes or dangerous/poisonous fruits have been picked, rather some smaller subs don't always seem to exhibit the clear identifying characters you need to be 100% and if in doubt it's better to sling them even if they are subs...well that's what I've found anyways, you can't go wrong with the bigger ones unless you are a real retard, but the smaller single ones that don't bruise or have that feel. People will always pick subs that haven't opened their cap properly and are runts and this is prolly where most of issues occur.

 

Well said, better safe than sorry even if you picked them from known sub locations.

Im still amazed at how powerful these mushrooms can be, I know people who would take them as a recreational thing... but ive always felt that the experience itself needs to be taken more seriously than merely a novelty. Going to the moon one would not venture without seriousness, he/she is exploring territory not well understood... perception of reality can radically transform, do hallucinogenic mushrooms help one unveil the deeper layers of nature? I am not sure... there are other more proven methods such as Meditation that will grant one through effort such experiences with a much clearer perception. So all im saying is that a warning is definately in order, be intelligent about how you use the fungus...

[holymountain]

ahh the subs... here's my two cents.

yes these are strong. from what i've heard people have been taken to places that they did not know existed. yes they take you to the transdimentional village, to the carnival, to hyperspace etc but you can get there on Dmt and large amounts of cubes as well... subs take you past all of that. don't ask me where. but it's fucking weird and it's fucking strange and people still get the shivers thinking about it..

in regards to the dosage arguments some people have had some pretty big experiences (some might say stupid) of 15 dried gs of cubes, or 10g of cubes plus changa....whilst being very intense and full on there was a familiarity to the places that were being visited...it's the general hyperspace area and it's full of spirits and what not but you can handle it somewhat....

subs at doses as small as 3gm seem to be able to go way beyond that to territories totally unfamiliar and not even psychedelic....you get the sense these are realms that humans do not visit and therefore the entities are not well versed in dealings with you...it's just BEYOND what any other psychedelic has shown...beyond where anyone would ever really need to go..admittedly there was some navigation involved, some fighting with gatekeepers to be allowed 'behind the curtains'...but the point is these things can and will take you these places on very small doses....so please don't try and compare them with cubes when it comes to dosing.

your eyes will water, you will get a lot of mucus and you'll probably get very, very cold as well...like PD said you become them.

in regards to picking: do the forests a favour and pick up rubbish as well whilst you are out there. it just doesn't feel right to pick all the mushrooms and leave the coke cans laying next to them. they are always watching and a little bit of kindness will be noticed. some people i know give every mushroom a quick blow or two to send their spores flying out there. they often find that once they blow the spores they will notice other subs nearby and so on and so on....if you pull up mycellium with the mushrooms make sure you either bury it or take it home and put in between some wet cardboard and kick start some more patches....it's a lot of fun to do and in theory the stem but from one mushroom can create dozens of new patches...

also in regards to identification: often lookalikes have brittle stems and will snap or be crushed when you go to pull them up. subs have tough stems that won't do this. often you'll know something that looks like a sub from the top is a look alike because as soon as you go to pick it the stem will collapse or crushinwards or you'll recoil because it's slimy and gooey... sub stems are solid and tough and you'll generally pull bits of myc and soil up when you pick.... thats not enough on it's own to id them but it does help..

all of that said...i'm looking very forward to this season...though i'm not even sure if i've got the balls to go back there...takes some big balls indeed.

Edited April 15, 2010 by holymountain

[mud]

wow

im so happy to read about others terming 'the carnival'!

They make you pick them, they make you see them, they make you, them.

Hhaha. i've remembered going, "oh why have I become 'fungus'- I thought I just took a drug".

Hmm-

I think that maybe syrian rue could be helpful with subs if they're too 'mean'.

definitely, i dont smoke pot with subs..

and i've found subs from different places, to have very different effects.

some patches are regualrly 'haunting', and others are regularly 'fun'.

[holymountain]

yep it's a carnival for sure. at first i thought that was just a metaphor people use...but the visions are literally of carnivals.. with clowns and rides and tents etc....dark as hell but a carnival no less...there is some kind of archetype there... i can't figure it out but i'd love to know what the hell it means. why are some kids scared shitless of clowns? it's like there is some inbuilt experience of the circus or something...whats with all the mystical vibe of the carnival?...it blows into town once a year, entices and attracts all the children, blows a few minds with it's colours, spinning objects and weirdness and then its off again, only to return next year....

maybe i just answered my own questions...

there is a terrence mckenna lecture somewhere (i think its on the 'under the teaching tree' series) where he begins to explain that the DMT experience is actually the archetype of the carnival, he is just about to explain what he means when the tape cuts out and resumes somewhere else. when i first heard him mention it i thought 'thank god, now i'll know what terrence thinks of this phenomena'...and then it cut out!!!

some people can vouch for rue totally changing the experience....but are yet to repeat the experiment. anyone else had a go?

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22637&view=&hl=rued&fromsearch=1

would be great to get a consensus on this....

as for the argument that psilocybin is the same from mushroom to mushroom and therefore the experiences should be the same... i call bullshit.

the subs have a life and a personality totally unique. to compare them to cubes just because they happen to have a few alkaloids that are the same is rubbish.... would love to know if other mushroom species have their own signatures as well (especially other woodlovers that subs are similar to). i'm assuming they do but haven't had the pleasure of doing the research...

Edited April 15, 2010 by holymountain

[Distracted]

I love the dark carnival references in this thread because myself and a few friends all agreed on this last year

Subs can definately be taken recreationally although i'd recommend a 2g dried dosage otherwise you can get too tired and are more prone to close your eyes and wander off in your thoughts. I hosted a 10 person mushroom party last year that went pretty well. We all started off with 2g dried subs, then someone brought a pizza box full of fresh subs and we had a few more till we were contented with plenty left over. One person had to lie outside for awhile just on the grass looking at the stars and one person kinda freaked out and had to leave for a bit to be alone(first time he ever actually hallucinated off psychedelics) but both admitted to having an incredible and enjoyable time .

Having fun little activities like drawing and moulding helps and music definately helps! Spoonbill, Shpongle, OTT etc. Going for walks to parks and playgrounds is also a must! But this is all just tripping common sense really.

I've found higher dosages of subs can lead to strange muscle twitches. I remember one time tripping by myself lying on the floor clawing at the ground, every now and then my whole arm would violently twitch, I felt like the mushroom spores were germinating and spreading mycelium through my brain causing me to somewhat lose control of my muscles. However i've had that thought a few times while on mushrooms... a feeling that the mushrooms are using us, not the other way round... creepy.

[holymountain]

Having fun little activities like drawing and moulding helps and music definately helps!

 

got to say music can definitely colour your trip..the good times that have been had on subs have always had music involved...upbeat stuff with lots going on...(the orb are a favourite...also anyone ever listened to philip glass's 'glassworks'?).....music is a great way of influencing the visions and the mood of things....the times when it's gotten incredibly strange and dark have all been with the mckenna method of total darkness and silence....and i guess thats why he recommends it. because you face the things on your own with no distractions and nothing to take the edge off.

it can obviously be too full on to do everytime but for those that have never done it give it a shot at least once...

feel like i've hijacked this thread a bit...but i guess it's all good as long as everyone is sharing stories and tips and those that are reading will hopefully get some idea of what subs are about..

[mud]

I'd got to thinking that 'maybe the carnival' is simply more like the first gateway.

A doorway or something.

Where you first exchange your tickets for entry.

One of the hardest things tripping with subs for me,

is to concentrate hard enough to really get anything from the exchange with any

particular entity or vista, revealed.

The carnival is the place where i've met all manner of fairy and elf and even giant.

subs seems like the place where all the archetypes are true. Where they exist and can be communicated with.

So far, my 'research' would suggest that each species of psilocybe correlates to an entirely different space, or place altogether.

Edited April 17, 2010 by mud

[klip247]

What dosages are we talking about here? A person I know took around 10-13 fairly strong subs and doesnt recall any carnivals.... just strong visual distortions, with colourful closed eye visualizations. Are you guys talking about full-blown hallucinations, out of body realms or..?

[matty]

It is good to here other people experiencing dreams, and the compass thing where you are drawn to a patch, the last two seasons they seemed to be everywhere I went. I moved at the start of this year and am intrigued to see what will happen this year, whether I am drawn to places i have visited before or if I am drawn to new places where I live now. Last year I was led on a little walk into the gully 200 metres from my house and found one of the biggest patches I have ever seen. I've wondered if subs are different because they are native and are more connected to the local spirit world than we will ever be. experiences were had 200 metres from wher the patch was located where there were connections made with the natural world, trees, bush, water. I agrre that With a larger dose people may feel tired, want to close their eyes, feel cold and feel stiff like wood and they wondered if you were becoming the tree that the fungus grew under?. A connection to trees and wood seems common.

I think 29 grams of dried material is a very big dose and possibly dangerous. any dose is entering an unknown.

I think It is naive to think you could relate a plant to a synthesized chemical.

I enjoyed relating certain psychedelic experiences to a carnival. In an orange room once I felt like i was in the middle of a spanish or south american festival.

I agree that mixing other things with subs may alter the effects, 2 people had subs last year, 1 had a larger? dose and the other had a smaller dose - large dose person had 2 stronger? Lsd tabs, smaller dose mushroom had 3 Stronger? LSD tabs. Large dose mushroom 2 Lsd tabs person said everything went into fast forward, wasn't in control, enjoyed psychedelic music for a while but then had to spend the rest of evening in bed which luckily only toook 5 minutes as everything was in fast forward. mild mushroom and 3 tabs LSD lost control and was taken to a nurse where he passed out for a bit, then made everyone laugh for a bit, then also went to bed. I'm not sure if either of these experiences were positive or negative, but haven't been repeated. I think it is wise to warn people about these things, you are opening a door that you don't know what is on the other side.

[matty]

a foaf also met goblins and other scary creatures at a park after eating lots of dried subs.

[holymountain]

What dosages are we talking about here? A person I know took around 10-13 fairly strong subs and doesnt recall any carnivals.... just strong visual distortions, with colourful closed eye visualizations. Are you guys talking about full-blown hallucinations, out of body realms or..?

 

3-4 dried grams (maybe even less) boiled for 10-15mins with lemon juice in the water...then strained....

there seems to be an idea that they are more potent when used in lemon juice tea....some people have eaten around 10 or more fresh ones and not had anywhere near as strong an experience as with same amount in a tea....warning though, this can be some really heavy shit...even for seasoned explorers..the sub space is pretty creepy.

yes i'm talking about out of body realms, full blown visions etc....but you must be in an environment conducive to such things...

e.g laying down in a dark room, with no distractions..darkness and silence. the important thing is that you are not trying to talk or trying to walk or do anything except surrendering to the mushroom...

mud: totally agree...i've seen the fairies and the elves and the giants too...the carnival is like the entry place..it's where you go first..theres often little men saying 'step right up' etc and you either stay around and get distracted by the parades of warped clowns and lights (which is what i think it's there for...to distract you and prevent you from going onwards) or you push further and demand people open doors and pull back the curtains and then holy shit you wish you hadn't because thats when things get weird.

i like very much that people are onto this carnival thing...there seems to be a common thing where people are too embarressed or unsure to tell others what they've seen...thinking: ' i swear i saw a carnival...but no, that can't be, thats just crazy'... and then lo and behold everyone else has seen it too.... faaaaaaaaaaar out.

[klip247]

Was foaf in the park there at night or daytime?

[Chiral]

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21061

[indigo264nm]

I have only skimmed through posts so dunno if anybody mentioned this but regarding lookalikes... Sometimes the most experienced pickers may grab a look alike or two which isn't suprising with how variable the appearance of subs is out in the field.

Besides from the if in doubt - throw it out rule there is something to be said about powdering after drying. If one 0.2g dried lookalike somehow made it's way into the haul, the chance of any damage being done from dosing if it's powered and distributed amongst say 20g dried of subs. Just a good fail safe to keep peace of mind.

Edited April 17, 2010 by -=IndigoSunrise=-

[matty]

foaf was alone in the park at night time