ID request : 5+ years in mushrooming.....

[mutant]

I have been mushrooming for edibles 5 years plus and have been lucky to find much of the entirety I think, of edibles, many of them from my first year in the woods. Perhaps the southern climate as opposed to northern greece, and the habitat of choice [fir/oak woods] for edible hunting is the reason I haven't found anything like this so far, despite I am an avid mushroom hunter all these years.

I first present to this community as I really love you guys, and also love the level of attitudes in here....not anything really to be taken as a favour, but nevertheless, I do wanna do it first here. [if you don't compliment me enough for this, I will just copy past it in other forums as is https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/emoticons/default_tongue.pnghttps://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/emoticons/default_tongue.pnghttps://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/emoticons/default_tongue.png ]

So here they come. Rain has fallen on these, so it's a rather wetty state. The black/bruised colour state of the caps is due to rain to. Only fresh ones are orangey/browny

These were coming in a place where there was moss, but when I tried to unburry underneath some of them, I found there was wood debris below. There is evident striation in the cap margin, there is an umbo most of times, sometimes quite broad, and blueing is more evident in the base of the stem, at least at the field, at first-time. Mycelial hyphae where characteristic, and rather thick. Not bluing to my attention.

A nice [iMO] observation is that [since I put the older and more worn-out by worms and rain and the newer fresher ones separately] the old ones bruised more readily in the base, right in the field , propably the only place not harmed yet, but the fresher ones I picked, even though they didn't blue so readily in the leg unless cut in the very base, but when I arrived home, they had blued in random spots in the whole body. The cap indeed blues as well, it is just not a very strong blueing reaction, but this is an observation from a guy that even though an knowledgeable person in mushrooms , hasn't seen any other species blueingreaction in the psilo/pan family. Anyways, I suppose this species has moderate psilocin content in the whole body.

Some friend ID'ed this as P.subbalteatus, but since I had studied it in the past, and eventually saw and picked old and fresh ones a week after in the same spot, these were rather a psilocybe Anyways, this is Waaaay different than what I have in my mind for Pan.subbalteatus.

I have to make clear that the whole thing is purely scientific and educational to me. I have been studying mushrooms for a long time.

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6206.jpg&key=8cfb8b9713b6de8b267166ba7665db1debe8d2e1c0ca936c88b3801efec84016

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6207.jpg&key=bbb685aa2bfb652ace9e5c7bcf97edb4908598988b0b3f35105602be46a8426e

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6208.jpg&key=b8a5765a668272f44a9a606f74e4244e6d40ac96ce77f3cb89741b9e0c150e77

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6209.jpg&key=0d3758961fe98e2f32aa95d4cc0312d52b3f3076b102754e6bbc296a69278b98

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6210.jpg&key=a28ae1b658adfcf695de72f636e742dbbc77bee0b38bf1311d58891d58be4381

These last are after a while of drying in the dehydrator. These samples are going to expert mycologists in order to fill the fungal recording in my country, which is seriously understudied. This is what I meant by seriously interesting in the sport.

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6211.jpg&key=0ef3e9a9ad04f2e7a44d4a078e4456d3de23ca506b8df4e4ac7602967d4781c0

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6212.jpg&key=24022646a79a415da6d77eaf10022bf1c70531859a1d5b3f49a73755b7d8b07e

===========

would love to see what do you think of all this...!

Edited December 5, 2009 by mutant

[mutant]

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6201.jpg&key=d8f49cf193828d91ce16a7ecaf03239521387486fa45f9dae226c39643da075f

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6202.jpg&key=39ed8d47247272c70453661c00eee20f41fbea7a4d0e2dc3d241878a86a594e2

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6203.jpg&key=178c3ed6d253a7ee1757699b35835859f868a38aaba5c58bc2f80321cf3c093c

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6204.jpg&key=73ec432a5fbc1ae037e3d9be93a4fc5db29e02f293f54b1d3e41132948d6044c

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/DSCN6205.jpg&key=50f53b2899b0826322ee692b4ef70efc018d392dcbdbb67f4c2730ffd56611ec

PS:

max height : 10 cm

max cap diameter: 5 cm

Edited December 5, 2009 by mutant

[Chiral]

mmmmmm crazy old woodlovers...azures, subaeruginosa, etc etc..not sure of the exact species because of where you live Mutant but you would have to be pretty confident of them being a really nice trippy fruit.

nice finds man, you should collect some wild myc from where you found them or cut off the stem butts and start colonizing some wood chips in a bag then progress those chips into a wooden box with heaps of wooden logs, leaf litter, a pine cone or two and more chips, then you can have a stealthy little controlled environment from which you can enjoy more fruits again next year.

can't wait to hear your trip reports on them...don't be a pussy either, make sure you do at least 10 gms of em'

Kidding...nah enjoy man they look great and I'm almost certain that where you picked them was a beautiful scenic location and just being out there was half the fun.

[naja naja]

nd get a print or 2 off to workman too. Spcies preservation and distribution too the world.

[mutant]

Thanks for opinion. I can never have enough of them, so any opinion is really appreciated....

don't be a pussy either, make sure you do at least 10 gms of em'

<___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png

this is a joke between chiral and me, not sure if all will get it though ;)

Truth is I always thought that 2 gr of such blueing species are pretty enough for a normal first time experience.... if that's indeed what the species are... azures crossed my mind, but I don't really think it's such a strong blueing reaction... but have nothing to compare that too... and I have the deepest respect for such an experiece, even though I feel psilo might just be more compatible with me than hoffmans potion - especially my own picked material ;)

As always me, not at all in a hurry to get it tested. I might have some other guinea pig try 2 gs first ;)

and I'm almost certain that where you picked them was a beautiful scenic location and just being out there was half the fun

Exactly, you've got me on this one, finding them AND trying to ID them is half or even more of the fun - since it's the first finds of this nature. The location I found them is a forest opening in which and around which I have picked a variety of edibles over the years.

Other than that, yeah I never doubted their activity as soon as I saw them, but even though I am an expert picker and generally read up on mushrooms, I am not relly read up in cultivation TEKs, and only got a failed attempt at psilos , when [stupid me] I did it the PF tek in a non airconditioned room during summer and temp was too high so colonisation stopped... I have no idea how wood loving psilos can be grown, no idea how to take a sterilised sporeprint, I haven't even tried a pleurotus or agrocybe cylidrica cultivation, which should be fairly easy...

I like learning, but I can take a maximum amount of new data given my personal circumstances. I got the old stamets book on cultivation, and also have access to agar cooking lab in the uni here, I just haven't got the time so far to get into such stuff.

What about workman and the preservation of species?? Fill me up in these if you like... Like I said I am not really the man of mushroom culti. Don't people in holland have sporebases ??

Do share ideas of how easily helping the mushrooms spread in the habitat or in artificial conditions.. I have many options and access to country side, different habitats...

ANd yeah I will let you know if someones bioessays the specimens for scientific purposes af course...

====

Hey, is it normal for them to stay blueish even after the drying or is it I did the perfect drying??!? <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_tongue.png

[Workman]

Ah, excellent find. I am glad I checked in today. Obviously an active woodloving Psilocybe species of some sort but species from Greece are not well documented. It could be something undescribed. I would love to do a microscopic examination, which only requires a few dried gills discretely mailed in a letter. I can then put together a microscopy composite such as the examples below which can then be compared to species described in the literature.

New Zealand undescribed Psilocybe specimen

Georgia, USA, Psilocybe atlantis

Check PM

Edited January 7, 2010 by Workman

[naja naja]

Hehe, that's the deal with Workman

Need I say more.........

[mutant]

Thanks a lot for help and offer. This really looks a lot like the undescribed NZ one. I am into contact with local experts, I know a couple mycologists too. There is a good chance it is indeed an undescribed species, because a Psilo expert from the balkan area says he doesn't know it.

I will update and inform you if any microscopic data show up.

[naja naja]

No offence to any other mycologists out there, but if u want to get this species too the world, workman is the man to go. He is unrestricted by many normal laws in place on most people. To not just ID, but too reproduce and print for distribution. And Psilo/Pans seem to be his feild of main interest. Like he said, just a couple of gill's descretely in an envelope.

WM has been responsible for the first hybrid cubensis strains too hit the market, APE 1.0 and others which havn't made it to market. Also fixing the PE infection. I can't stress how much effort this person goes to. Ps. ATL#7, mexicana strain A, N.Z. weraroa pouched fungus, PE uncut, etc,etc

For more of his work, please refer to sporeworks. coomm

Edited January 11, 2010 by naja naja

[tripsis]

WM has been responsible for the first hybrid cubensis strains too hit the market, APE 1.0 and others

They are not hybrids, but P. cubensis strains selectively bred for novel traits.

[naja naja]

No they are hybrids! True hybrids made in a lab. Workman has described his novel tek for the isolation on single spore mycelium and letting them grow together over at shroomery, maybe take a look before making such blanket statements.

[tripsis]

No, they are not. A hybrid is a cross between two different species, or in the very least two different sub-species. His strains are crosses within the same species. It's like saying someone of Chinese and Nigerian descent is a hybrid. The usage of the term hybrid to describe crosses within a population is incorrect in my opinion. If you choose to call Workman's novel strains hybrids, then so as not to be a hypocrite, you should call virtually every Australian a hybrid.

[naja naja]

Hybrid as in the genetic definiton.

hy·brid (hbrd)n.1. Genetics The offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock, especially the offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties, species, or races.2. a. Something of mixed origin or composition, such as a word whose elements are derived from different languages.b. Something having two kinds of components that produce the same or similar results, such as a vehicle powered by both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine as sources of power for the drive train.

http://www.thefreedi...nary.com/hybrid

I was just going by what I had learnt in plant skool.

Peace

P.S. And yes, I would call that person a hybrid.

Edited January 12, 2010 by naja naja

[tripsis]

Well if you would consider Australians hybrids, I can't argue with that.

My biology dicitonary has the definition of a hybrid as:

"progeny of a cross between parents of a different genotype"

Going by that, every single living organism which has been produced through sexual reproduction would be a hybrid! <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_blink.png

Either way, I see them both as wrong and think that the term hybrid should be reserved for crosses between two genetically dissimilar organisms...but that's just my opinion. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_tongue.png

[Zen Peddler]

They look like Psilocybe cyanpfibrillosa from my limited experience with that species.

[mutant]

Not really. Stems of mine were white and blued quite, they were not brownish with fibres.

whatever the case, thanks for the opinion <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

btw I am such a lazy bastard I haven't sent specimens to noone yet. I have seen pics of similar specimens picked in the balkans though...

Edited May 27, 2010 by mutant

[Distracted]

Not really. Stems of mine were white and blued quite, they were not brownish with fibres.

whatever the case, thanks for the opinion

btw I am such a lazy bastard I haven't sent specimens to noone yet. I have seen pics of similar specimens picked in the balkans though...

 

This was a cool thread to read until I saw the outcome...

You Disappointed me mutant

[mescalito]

Man as soon as I saw these I have found and examined IDENTICAL ones in one spot (they're probably out now but too far away atm) and at the time put them down to what we call atm <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_newimprovedwinkonclear.gif subaeruginosa....because they fit the description locale and season,yet I noticed not all,but some stands were slightly different.

I'm not kidding hey!

Everything you described is what I noted,so I,well gave them to someone to ID who ended up trying them....not my fault hey.

In hindsight after hearing his account at 1.5gm,3 and 5 they sounded like almost a blend of cubes and subs as he went on to try both,the winter sub from another place and cube at different times.He said the first lot were the deepest workable ecstatic states compared to cubes of differing types and the same with subs.

Hmmmm he might still have a print or some leftover stuff, I'll check with him next time he's online.

BTW good job mapping the fungi,I reckon it's very important.....maybe the only thing that will save the forests.

[TheDudeAbides]

I have been mushrooming for edibles 5 years plus and have been lucky to find much of the entirety I think, of edibles, many of them from my first year in the woods. Perhaps the southern climate as opposed to northern greece, and the habitat of choice [fir/oak woods] for edible hunting is the reason I haven't found anything like this so far, despite I am an avid mushroom hunter all these years.

I first present to this community as I really love you guys, and also love the level of attitudes in here....not anything really to be taken as a favour, but nevertheless, I do wanna do it first here. [if you don't compliment me enough for this, I will just copy past it in other forums as is ]

So here they come. Rain has fallen on these, so it's a rather wetty state. The black/bruised colour state of the caps is due to rain to. Only fresh ones are orangey/browny

These were coming in a place where there was moss, but when I tried to unburry underneath some of them, I found there was wood debris below. There is evident striation in the cap margin, there is an umbo most of times, sometimes quite broad, and blueing is more evident in the base of the stem, at least at the field, at first-time. Mycelial hyphae where characteristic, and rather thick. Not bluing to my attention.

A nice [iMO] observation is that [since I put the older and more worn-out by worms and rain and the newer fresher ones separately] the old ones bruised more readily in the base, right in the field , propably the only place not harmed yet, but the fresher ones I picked, even though they didn't blue so readily in the leg unless cut in the very base, but when I arrived home, they had blued in random spots in the whole body. The cap indeed blues as well, it is just not a very strong blueing reaction, but this is an observation from a guy that even though an knowledgeable person in mushrooms , hasn't seen any other species blueingreaction in the psilo/pan family. Anyways, I suppose this species has moderate psilocin content in the whole body.

Some friend ID'ed this as P.subbalteatus, but since I had studied it in the past, and eventually saw and picked old and fresh ones a week after in the same spot, these were rather a psilocybe Anyways, this is Waaaay different than what I have in my mind for Pan.subbalteatus.

I have to make clear that the whole thing is purely scientific and educational to me. I have been studying mushrooms for a long time.

These last are after a while of drying in the dehydrator. These samples are going to expert mycologists in order to fill the fungal recording in my country, which is seriously understudied. This is what I meant by seriously interesting in the sport.

===========

would love to see what do you think of all this...!

 

why did you put them out!

[mutant]

put out??? not getting you I think.... you mean made public?

[mutant]

lol

I never sent away samples or specimens, I am such a lazy bastard

this year I am more into it, and this was a very great shrooming day, I found these and also lots of top edibles like chantarelles, black trumpets, hydnums and such

well

there's chance I do it now - that is spreading some samples to get a decent microscopy of this and prints to knowledgeable folks

the mushroom was consistent in the rendezvouz

this time, as I picked better shaped specimens [the last years most were in bad shape due to heavy rain] . Timing was good. I picked lots od babies too.

and they look even sexier!

BEFORE:

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010109.jpg&key=a6e8e5cb70fc4d3047faad6e45620bf3e014a5776a945fc389aed85f1cb2c62d

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010107.jpg&key=edb181781f30b98ff5c4a8f9bb63fc4c56c4fee5a6fae7ac6559a7b04ba1ed81

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010105.jpg&key=608a05d8546a445c414201e9e47940bfc655e650c851c226aafb44db701130a5

summing to that:

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010110.jpg&key=b994d57e4804899f3066e0129625702a328b9616e2cbbe44344704a980d246f6

AFTER SOME 1.5 HOUR

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010104.jpg&key=d6946b1960b49d6b451720041401fb17ccfba3cf64ca1372b96e65eca17c9078

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010116.jpg&key=a44fef7b295cc8665ebaccac9cd0759e91d97c5ebdbba367e68644a8ef156729

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010117.jpg&key=4c8d80a24a7925d14c23fb960f56b43d6b6139608b249cb434235829ae8edae4

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010121.jpg&key=83e584f6509485c93d9916222f5542e4e82e6d6ba36c3cfe533dfec7b574084f

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/ethno666/P1010118.jpg&key=21b9f1ddfc5eba879aa9d55efd3a7d1ede0f2df562132af20560b22e6de288d1

Edited November 29, 2010 by mutant

[kindness]

they look so much like suberiginosa. weird. I wonder if spores have gotten to greece somehow... are these growing close to your home at all mutant? I just ask as maybe spores have arrived with something else you have recieved from Oz? Just a thought...

I hope you do get a sample off to workman, (if he's contactable) so you and we get to know what type they actually are

[mutant]

No they don't look so sub, in fact. They're much smaller, for one. max diameter = 4 cm

The spot found is over 60 km from my home, in the mountains. I strongly believe it's native or it came from the north, not australia, heh

there are a couple of smaller european woodlovers like Psilocyce bohemica, Psilcybe serbica etc in the balkans

I got an ID from those last photos

Psilocybe serbica var. bohemica [inska, shroomery]

link of the same thread in shroomery

from wikipedia, Psilocybe bohemica

Alkaloid content

Psilocybin levels in this species were found to vary between 0.11% up to 1.34% by dry weight.[1] The content of baeocystin and psilocybin was highest in the caps of the mushrooms.

P.bohemica {Gartz, Muller 1989 ; Gartz 1994 - from Stamet] psilocybin 1,34 - psilocin 0,11 - baeocystin 0,02 [%]

From what I get I can be anything in Serbica stirps

arcana

bohemica

serbica

moravica [this is propably excluded]

or even a not yet described species.

For now, it's bohemica to me

[kindness]

glad you found what you think they are mutant.

just to be clear though mate, I didn't say you thought they looked like subs, I said I did.

peace

[mutant]

Update, this guy Inski from shroomery was right [citing Boravicka et al 2010]

moravica = serbica = bohemica = arcana

from DNA tests

so proper name is Psilocybe serbica var. bohemica

===

kindness, I did not mean to be harsh in any way. There are no subs in europe, but there are cyanescens, azurescens and serbica. Thinking spores might have traveled to greece from australia , took and fruited was a nice but pretty wild guess <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png