Unripe HBWR

[Alchemica]

Compilation from the net:

4 unripe HBWR (whole seeds):

4 seeds, chewed for approximately 10min and swallowed.

T+45 Nausea. Vomited. Subject normally doesn't vomit with low doses of seeds.

T+1hr 10min: An unexpected knock on the door. Normally the person would have avoided answering the door but instead the subject decided that they were feeling social and was quite happy to answer their questions. No pupil dilation noted nor any visual activity.

T+2-4 hours: Mood is excellent. Slightly sedated but the degree of sedation is less than that of the ripe seeds. Slight colour enhancement - colours are noticibly brighter. Some spontaneous smiling.

T+4-16 hours: Still noticible changes in thought processes, slightly paranoid/scketchy. Lasting too long for subjects liking and sleep is difficult.

T+24 hours: No residual effects.

A FOAF aquired some unripened seed still in the pod in order to gauge the effect seeds were removed from the pod given a light scrape then chewed whole this was basically to get an idea of the difference in negative side effects between ripened and unripened seeds.

4 Seeds were initially consumed chewed in the mouth after being crushed and mixed with honey

Comeon was extremely strong from approx 30min-3 hour mark no really viusual aspects though at 3.5 hours the effects seem to have levelled out to a nice euphoria not a very strongeffect was felt so he decided to consume 2 more seeds within 30 mins to an hour both auditory and strong oev and cev were becoming apparent unfortuneately so did the typical HBWR sleepiness as well , time distortion was ceratinly present also some stomach pain was experienced during first two hours of experience nothing major

FOAF also mention the cross tolerance to lucy was ridiculous 1 tab c onsumed the day after with 2 more seeds resulted innothing but sleepiness and a mild euphoria

FOAF advised the overall experience was far more visual and far less side effects then a typical HBWR experience

- Neoshaman's FOAF

Edited June 8, 2009 by Alchemica

[FancyPants]

^^^ This is all very interesting! Have noticed the cross-tolerence now though took a while to recognise as such. For stomach cramps in not-quite-so-fresh seeds, Buscopan does wonders! I wonder if a smoke of small bit of mandrake or datura/brug etc might not help that in similar way to Buscopan?

My good friend has a keen interest in the lsa seeds, particularly HBWR as that was the one which ignited her interest from the first try. But since this good friend doesn't have a plant herself to get the freshest possible, she would love it if someone would be able to offer her a few superfresh seeds (Just enough for maybe two or three experiments, and reimbursed costs of course) to guage the difference in bioassay of fresh to older seed.

[sethomopod]

^^^ This is all very interesting! Have noticed the cross-tolerence now though took a while to recognise as such. For stomach cramps in not-quite-so-fresh seeds, Buscopan does wonders! I wonder if a smoke of small bit of mandrake or datura/brug etc might not help that in similar way to Buscopan?

My good friend has a keen interest in the lsa seeds, particularly HBWR as that was the one which ignited her interest from the first try. But since this good friend doesn't have a plant herself to get the freshest possible, she would love it if someone would be able to offer her a few superfresh seeds (Just enough for maybe two or three experiments, and reimbursed costs of course) to guage the difference in bioassay of fresh to older seed.

I can help.. PM me

[Neoshaman]

Sticto Seeds

FOAF advises 6 seeds unripe staright from the pod resulted in a mild very clear headed stimulation but nothing visual and lacked the sheer intensity of HBWR a further 2 seeds were consumed after 2 hours this certainly intensified the experience but no where near the point of HBWR definitely much clear headed experience however also very subtle

thinks cwe 10-12 may yeild better results

[apothecary]

Hi neoshaman,

Are you referring to fresh Stictocardia seeds? I am assuming a tiliifolia specimen from Herbalistics? Can you please tell us "how unripe" they were? As a reference size:

Stictocardia tiliifolia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._tiliifolia.jpg (1.2MB image file of ripe seed)

Argyeria nervosa: http://www.botanicalspirit.com/catalogues/...-woodro_800.jpg

Are we talking significantly smaller than that?

[Neoshaman]

Hi neoshaman,

Are you referring to fresh Stictocardia seeds? I am assuming a tiliifolia specimen from Herbalistics? Can you please tell us "how unripe" they were? As a reference size:

Stictocardia tiliifolia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._tiliifolia.jpg (1.2MB image file of ripe seed)

Argyeria nervosa: http://www.botanicalspirit.com/catalogues/...-woodro_800.jpg

Are we talking significantly smaller than that?

its sourced from Herbalistics although I specfically emailed Darren and asked him to pick n send unripe pods the seeds are about normal size however very soft with no dark brown outer coat quite easy to chew no not significant difference is size probably a tiny bit smaller then in the photo

EDIT : has anyone seen a comparative alkaloid content for HBWR and Sticto ripe seeds ??

Edited June 16, 2009 by neoshaman

[t st tantra]

heard a strange story about clusters in a sealed plastic bag and white/blue fuzz growing on the green parts mainly.1/2 an unripe seed was added to a mix of other substances inc maoi.

was told it dominated the day with more stimulation than melty sedation......hydroxy more shroom like?

t s t .

[Thelema]

If unripe pods are kept in a sealed bag for about 2 weeks, a fungus from the leaves dominates and the leaves "thicken" with the fungus. The smell is quite like a very strong sub.mycelium smell. This taste and smell also dominates the seeds, and dramatically increases the effects of the experience. Maybe something similar happened with the traditional practice of Ol'qi: maybe the seeds were cured beforehand! This practice, if it bears true with repeated experience, might readily explain the 5-fold differences in amounts needed to be consumed between traditional reports and modern reports.

found this, might be of interest...from a FOAF

[t st tantra]

thanx.....i'm willing to suggest the symbiotic fungus may be fruiting on dead/dying wood?maybe this is part of its natural life cycle.....

t s t .

a pot of soil inoculated with soil from around the roots of a mature ipomoea palmata is showing a very similar pale grey/blue fungus.....

Edited June 26, 2009 by t st tantra

[Uncle. S]

Has anybody else had experience with this fungal growth on unripe seeds? This sounds very exciting! Perhaps all along we have been experiencing lsa the way it was never intended to be?

edit: this is referring to fungus on unripe hbwr isnt it? not sticto..

Edited June 29, 2009 by Uncle Staunch

[t st tantra]

yes hbwr,visible fungus on twigs,very little on pods, but the fungus lives in the whole plant?

t s t .

[FancyPants]

Is there any danger in eating the fungus itself?

[apothecary]

Yeah that would be my primary concern. We are not talking about just one "symbiotic fungus" here: there is one epibiote belonging to Clavicipitaceae and something like 12 different endophytes of other genus that all seem to work together in a very complex and inter-dependent way (the epibiote by itself is not responsible, nor are the endophytes on their own) to produce the end result of ergo-alkaloids.

All of these symbiotes resisted culturing in scientific testing so who really knows what you are eating outside the seed after culturing it in a sealed bag for two weeks?

Certainly there are no traditional reports of this sort, so we are venturing into unsafe territory and extreme caution should be exercised.

[Neoshaman]

Reports given to me seem that the outer layering of the seed does not have pleasant result my friend who reported he cleaned the outer seed witha scrapping and a small amount of water only recieved very stimulating effects with minimal stomach upset same seeds taken by another friend resulted ina similar experiencee but had vommitting and stomach upset after being taken the only difference i can put this down to are the seeds not being scrapped and washed prior to ingestion , so IMO I don't think the human body reacts well to some of the aforementioned fungus

[lofty86]

^^^ This is all very interesting! Have noticed the cross-tolerence now though took a while to recognise as such. For stomach cramps in not-quite-so-fresh seeds, Buscopan does wonders! I wonder if a smoke of small bit of mandrake or datura/brug etc might not help that in similar way to Buscopan?

My good friend has a keen interest in the lsa seeds, particularly HBWR as that was the one which ignited her interest from the first try. But since this good friend doesn't have a plant herself to get the freshest possible, she would love it if someone would be able to offer her a few superfresh seeds (Just enough for maybe two or three experiments, and reimbursed costs of course) to guage the difference in bioassay of fresh to older seed.

I was told that Buscopan may be dangerouse to take for cramping on psychoactives as there is usually a reason why your body is trying to purge. about 2 years ago i went to the Pharmacy for Buscopan after i was experiencing intestinal discomfort after eating some shrooms the chemist explained to me that Buscopan would merely mask the pain by paralyzing the area and that my body would have to deal with it later she suggested i took some fibre instead. Worked like a charm now when my gut gives me trouble when im playing with my friends i eat some burnt toast and have a glass of Chai settles me right down.

[Neoshaman]

2 more reports I forgot to add to this thread earlier posted on AE forums

Intrestingly enough a CWE on 10 of the same unripe seed resulted in a very strong but normal HBWR experience ( no visuals) we are not sure if this is realted to tolerance ( as it was only a week between biossays) or if the acatual active causing the visual aspect does not readily come out with a CWE I have read some interesting reports based on hot water extracts done on stictocardia which left the active components still viable I may suggest to my friend to try this and raising the acidity levels of the water he uses to extract to see if that picks up on the visuals he still has a substanial number of unripened pods so if its unsuccessful no real loss anyway

FOAF advised Another Test of whole seeds resulted in highly mentally stimulating experience mild oev like seeing glowing red lights on cats paws and cords warp and move some auditory distortion experience lasted approx 9 hours not a great deal of stomach upset ( 7 seeds from unripe pods eaten whole after scrape and rinse ) FOAF advises being around unknown pple caused high anxiety similar to Lucy or ALD

[apothecary]

IMO I don't think the human body reacts well to some of the aforementioned fungus

This is a really important piece of bioassay data to note!

[FancyPants]

My friend in Argentina usually scrapes off as much brown coating off until the creamy-tan under colour is revealed. Older the seeds, harder to peel she says. They're also a pain in the arse, difficult shape to scrape.

Lofty86, that's interesting! But wouldn't that have to imply the same for all purgatives? Might be just a plant's defence mechanism. Of course slowing down your gastrointestinal tract too much too often can't be good, like chronic opiate use. Also there are plenty of people who use Buscopan for other things like kidney stones (as it stops/slows the ureteric contractions) so they shouldn't not use it for that reason. Hmm if you told the chemist you'd had mushies they may have simply been trying to scare you off them. Does anyone else know anything about a possible contraindication?

Also Mary helps the abdominal pains a bit, when you can stay awake

[Neoshaman]

My friend in Argentina usually scrapes off as much brown coating off until the creamy-tan under colour is revealed. Older the seeds, harder to peel she says. They're also a pain in the arse, difficult shape to scrape.

Lofty86, that's interesting! But wouldn't that have to imply the same for all purgatives? Might be just a plant's defence mechanism. Of course slowing down your gastrointestinal tract too much too often can't be good, like chronic opiate use. Also there are plenty of people who use Buscopan for other things like kidney stones (as it stops/slows the ureteric contractions) so they shouldn't not use it for that reason. Hmm if you told the chemist you'd had mushies they may have simply been trying to scare you off them. Does anyone else know anything about a possible contraindication?

Also Mary helps the abdominal pains a bit, when you can stay awake

Unripe seeds its like a soft brown muck on the seed I have been told pain in the arse to remove hence scrapping and washing required not to mention the seeds in this state are quite soft and as a result its not uncommon to remove the seed shell in parts while attempting to clean

[apothecary]

Guys it has previously been recommended sandpaper wrapped around the inside of a jar I believe.

[Neoshaman]

Guys it has previously been recommended sandpaper wrapped around the inside of a jar I believe.

The gunk has a damp quality unlike fully developed seeds for this reason i'm not confident sandpaper would be all that effective in saying that its great for cleaning ripe seeds

[Thelema]

I was able to peel off the endospermic layer of the seed with no problem in an unripe seed pod; the seed itself underneath was quite an unexpected delight - it looked exactly like a brain! Reminded me of Tabernanthe.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Thelema

[Uncle. S]

I was able to peel off the endospermic layer of the seed with no problem in an unripe seed pod; the seed itself underneath was quite an unexpected delight - it looked exactly like a brain! Reminded me of Tabernanthe.

Did you discover whether the layer you peeled off contained any actives? Or is it well worth completely removing?

[Neoshaman]

I was able to peel off the endospermic layer of the seed with no problem in an unripe seed pod; the seed itself underneath was quite an unexpected delight - it looked exactly like a brain! Reminded me of Tabernanthe.

you talking about the green inner parts Thelema? my friends say they have never tried removing the whole outer layer just the soft brown gunk had always thought the seed outers were active also

Another question I keep reading about MG wine using the flowers in some type of infusion etc has anyone ever investiagted HBWR flower alkaloid profiles be intrested to see biossays of both infusion and pyrolisation of these if there was nothing negative hiding there