Psychedelic Fish!!

[Birdwing]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews...tish-coast.html

Fish that triggers hallucinations found off British coast

A species of bream, sarpa salpa, which can trigger hallucinations when eaten, has been been discovered in British waters due to global warming.

The species of bream is normally found in the balmier waters of the Mediterranean and South Africa, was found by fisherman Andy Giles in his nets in the English Channel.

Mr Giles, 38, caught the fish, which is instantly recognised by its gold stripes running along its body, six miles south of Polperro, Cornwall.

"We were trawling for lemon sole and hauled up the net at the end of the day and almost immediately saw this striped fish, we didn't have a clue what it was," he said.

"I had never seen one before and after taking a photograph of it I tried to look it up on the internet and called some friends to see if they knew what it was.

"I put it in the fish box and brought it back for experts to have a look at it.

"Now I realise what it was and the effects it can have, perhaps I should have taken it into town to sell to some clubbers!"

There have only been three previous recordings of sarpa salpa in British waters before, with one of them being off the Channel Islands in 1983.

James Wright, a senior biologist at the National Marine Aquarium in Plymouth, said: "These are a fairly common fish off Tenerife, Malta and Cyprus but it is very rare to get them this far north.

"It could be a single fish that was shoaling with a different species but it could be that there are more of them in our waters."

Sarpa salpa are a popular dish in many Mediterranean restaurants.

But according to marine experts, certain species of plankton-eating fish, like the sarpa salpa, can give off hallucinogenic fish poisoning if the heads or other body parts are consumed.

The effects include vivid hallucinations within minutes of eating it which can last for days.

In 2006 two men, one aged 90, were hospitalised in the south of France after eating sarpa salpa.

The elderly man suffered from auditory hallucinations a couple of hours after eating the fish followed by a series of nightmares over the next two nights.

The younger man, aged 40, endured similar effects which took 36 hours to disappear.

[Alchemica]

Interesting. Would be good to see some solid research into the hallucinogenic constituents (even though none of the experiences seem to be very pleasant)... caulerpin and its derivatives look like good leads for future research: http://bigmknows.posterous.com/hallucinoge...n-investigation

Edited May 25, 2009 by The Alchemist

[SayN]

Interesting. Would be good to see some solid research into the hallucinogenic constituents (even though none of the experiences seem to be very pleasant)... caulerpin and its derivatives look like good leads for future research: http://bigmknows.posterous.com/hallucinoge...n-investigation

interesting article. i wouldn't put too much credence in the report of a 90 year old and and a 40 year old though (who's likely never tripped). I would imagine they'd be pretty freaked out

and the fish looks very similar to what i used to call a drummer - although i'm not sure it is.

Edited May 26, 2009 by CrayZ

[botanicalSEEKER]

i want some of that sushi

[devance]

Its easy do.

Just go to a fish store and buy a boxfish or puffer or trigger fish.

Get it home and eats it liver.

Very little like a toothpicks work.

Fugu.

But not new chemical.

Accumlated from toxic planton.

Which the fish eat at the top of the food chain.

Which the fish bioaccumulate and permanently stores in the liver.

The Japanese have a better feel for a thrill on near death numbness.

But not interseting for the hallucenogincally intersted.

Problby more of a datura experince if survivalble.

And the unfortunate trigger fish, the picassa.

Eats coral with the strong jaws and a bioaccumulater

with the same.

[psychoshaman]

very interesting, trippin' on fish eh?

although no good for this cat being a vegetarian and all

[Neoshaman]

very interesting, trippin' on fish eh?

although no good for this cat being a vegetarian and all

Is this the so called dream fish that is alledged in the psychadelics encyclopedia by stafford to contain DMT ... pretty sure the whole DMT thing was put to rest a while back as some other chemical was identified as responsible for the starnge dreams but is this the same species of fish ?????

Edited May 27, 2009 by neoshaman

[Jesus On Peyote]

It would be good to know what chem/s are causing it.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Jesus On Peyote

[Conan Troutman]

It would be good to know what chem/s are causing it.

Pretty clear its an unknown reaction...found THIS excellent 'investigation'

interesting excerpts:

Well, there's another problem. The profile of the "poisoning" doesn't sound anything like "trip reports" of psychedelic tryptamines. Onset within minutes, can last for days, apparently people can sleep in that state, but they experience vivid nightmares. That just doesn't sound like the popular tryptamines.

While reading that article, I got the distinct impression that the drug must be something else. But what is it?

I mentioned earlier that two of the seven articles listed on PubMed were case reports of poisoning. The Practical Fishkeeping article mentions a report due to be published in Clinical Toxicology. That's one of the papers listed on PubMed, from 2006. The other is from 1988 and doesn't exist online, but the 2006 paper does. So I retrieved it.

DISCUSSION

 

 

Clinical symptoms of ichthyoallyeinotoxism occur within a few minutes to 2 h after ingestion of toxic fish. The first symptoms resemble inebriety with loss of balance and coordination and generalized malaise (1–3). Sore throat and heartburn have also been reported in the initial phase. Within a few hours, specific signs of poisoning occur including delirium, visual and/or auditory hallucinations (often involving animals), depression, feelings of impending death with reactive tachycardia and hyperventilation, and disturbed behavior. If they are able to sleep, patients classically report terrifying nightmares (3). Gastrointestinal symptoms including nausea, abdominal pain, and diarrhea have been described in a few cases, but are usually low-grade (3). No specific treatment or antidote treatment is available. Appropriate management of transient behavioral disturbances (e.g., using benzodiazepine or neuroleptics), is important to prevent self-inflicted or other injury. Symptomatictreatment for gastrointestinal manifestation can enhance patient comfort. Symptoms generally abate within 24 to 36 h, but weakness may persist for several days (1–3).

 

Ichthyoallyeinotoxism is widespread in tropical and temperate areas of the Indian and Pacific Oceans as well as in the Mediterranean Sea. Toxic fish species belong to the 8 families detailed in Table 1. Most are herbivores or scavengers living in coastal areas. It should be noted that toxicity in all species varies according to fishing location, season, and way of preparing the fish (3). In the Mediterranean, most poisonings involving Sarpa salpa (eaten in Tunisia, France and Israel but considered as inedible in Italy and Spain), have been reported in spring and summer (4–7). A classically reported exacerbating factor is consumption of fish cooked without removing the head, and/or not immediately gutted after being caught (8). Although the toxic agents are still unknown, some authors have implicated toxic macroalgaes (caulerpaceae family) that are ingested and contaminate the flesh of fish (3,4). These toxins are probably heat stable since case reports have been described after ingestion of fried, boiled, steamed or raw fish (3,7)

 

 

Now we have a lead. Caulerpaceae microalgae. Perhaps it's not the fish that produces the toxin after all. That might explain why cases of poisoning are rare despite sarpa salpa being a common menu item around the Mediterranian Sea and Indian Ocean. Only fish that recently ate caulerpaceae algae cause hallucinations.

What do we know about the toxins in these organisms? A search for "caulerpaceae hallucinogen" brings back nothing. However, "caulerpaceae toxin" reveals a class of toxins that include caulerpenyne, caulerpenin, caulerpicin, and caulerpin, which appear to be neurotoxins that act on ion channels and have some effects "similar to serotonin". The last point is interesting, because classical psychedelics, the phenethylamines and tryptamines, are known to act via the 5-HT2A receptor (serotonin receptor subtype 2A).

So what are the known effects of caulerpaceae toxins in humans? I couldn't find anything. I searched for hours. I thought the trail had gone cold. But then I found this:

The molecular structure of caulerpin. My jaw almost dropped when I saw it. What's so special about it?

It has two indoles.

Not only that, but caulerpin's multi-ring structure lends itself to a rigid planar stereochemistry, much like LSD (which some have argued potentiates LSD's effects). It also lacks the amine of classical tryptamines, which is one place that monoamine oxidases attack to metabolize tryptamines via the oral route (the nitrogen would be at the position where the methyl esters bond to the central ring). In fact, except for the conspicuous lack of that amine, caulerpin looks like two tryptamines fused together. This may very well be the culprit.

However, many questions remain. What are the effects of caulerpin in the human CNS? Why does caulerpin survive the GI tract if it lacks 4-substitution on its indoles? If this is the hallucinogen, why does it last so long? Why would it be so resistant to metabolism? This is not the end of my investigation, but the beginning.

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Edited May 30, 2009 by Conan Troutman

[Teotzlcoatl]

I have heard of this before... I it was mullet they were eating tho!