Aleister Crowley Was Scum!!

[Mycot]

I agree with what some others are saying here.

Baphomet dont know shit about Crowley or Leary or Magick.

Baphomets the one coming off as scum when he's so liberal about applying this label to others. Remove the log from thine own eye. When you write a book thats even half as good as some of the stuff published by these two men, get back to me.

[t st tantra]

someone calling himself baphomet dising some who called himself 'the great beast'......lol.

t s t .

[Neoshaman]

someone calling himself baphomet dising some who called himself 'the great beast'......lol.

t s t .

I'm sure a few of you will already be aware of this but it makes it all the funnier Crowleys motto at the time he joined ordo templi orientis was ................................................................................

.................................................................................

.......wait for it

................................................................................

.....................................You guessed it

BAPHOMET

[Legba]

Crowley agreed that Baphomet was a divine androgyne and "the hieroglyph of arcane perfection". (Wiki)

This is getting all Zen right here now

[baphomet]

I think he knew a little more about magical affairs than you baphomet

Surely no one here actually believes that he practiced "real" magick?

Which spell books did he use??

Are there any other spell books that you guys would recommend so that I can summon some demons? Something you think is genuine and believe actually works??

"Baphomet dont know shit about Crowley or Leary or Magick."

You sound like an expert on "Magick", I'm sure you could help me out?

EDIT: What about that necrosomethingorother? (Can't quite remember the name) Do you dare me to do some incantations out of it? Do you think it will work?

Edited January 29, 2009 by baphomet

[nabraxas]

According to the famous occultist Aleister Crowley, magick is "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will." ... In fact, Crowley... says that "every intentional act is a Magickal Act." If you follow his line of reasoning, there is a great deal of validity in what he says, although it is not what we are seeking at this time. We need to make the definition of magick a bit longer: Magick is the science and art of causing change (in consciousness) to occur in conformity with will, using means not currently understood by traditional Western science.

source: Modern Magick, Donald Michael Kraig (Llewellyn Publications)

Are there any other spell books that you guys would recommend

seeing as you can read Greek, why not have a go at the Ελληνικοί Μαγικοί Πάπυροι?

Edited January 29, 2009 by nabraxas

[Neoshaman]

EDIT: What about that necrosomethingorother? (Can't quite remember the name) Do you dare me to do some incantations out of it? Do you think it will work?

Haha Necronomican has been pretty much the most discredited book in the history of occult studies but yeah what ever floats your boat.

Intrestingly enough and i know this could be getting a little warpped and off track but does anyone know if there has been any decent studies done between these entiities/energies that some magick parctioners claim to be able to envoke in comparison to entities experienced while under the effects of something like DMT or Ketamine .

I have read bits and pieces of stassman that allude to DMT usage may have had some influence in the development of dieties and the such in many ancient belief systems

It would be very intresting to see if the naturally occuring levels of DMT or other tryptatmines in the brain are some how raised by the frenzy or the complexity of the rituals performed during an envocation

[t st tantra]

baphomet,which books of crowley and leary have you read?

t s t .

[ajna]

it's funny to see AC the target of this attack from someone apparently familiar with his work, my perception of him is that he was quite a skeptical and scientifically minded occultist. he encouraged a "dont take my word for it, test it for yourself" approach to magick, i also remember a quote that was something like "...the aim of religion via the method of science"

there's also the story about his partner who was contacted by Horus, or Horus was speaking through her to AC, and he was so disbelieving that he initially accused her of being delusional and then went about testing the validity of Horus' claims before accepting anything.

but whatever, he's controversial and that's the way he'd like it, think what you will. all i know is i have learned something from his teachings

[Neoshaman]

a "dont take my word for it, test it for yourself"

Hence the basis of the A:. A:. teachings " the aim of religion, through the method of science"

No one really takes any notice of this order and most people only have a tendancy to associate Crowley with the two other prominent orders he was involved in the OTO and GD its a shame really personally I feel this order has the most beneficial structure and teaching methods for anyone seeking self development in such areas

[mr b.caapi]

Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin was a huge Crowley fan, he even bought Crowley's Mansion on the banks of Loch Ness, maybe the "Pick of destiny" was summoned by Crowley !!! hey yeh we could be onto something here folks !! WATCH THIS !

Edited January 31, 2009 by mr b.caapi

[The Dude]

Hence the basis of the A:. A:. teachings " the aim of religion, through the method of science"

So I'm a Crowley n00b, unlike the self professed know it all that by the look of it hasn't read a single one of his books... Anyway, What are A:. A:. teachings?

...

So Crowley saw himself as the Beast, a Luciferian stir shit up sort of archetype. A public prankster. In a sense, our latest incarnation of this meme, chilling here with us now, is doing just the same. Stirring up the ethno-community status quo. The sad thing is, while Crowley would incite some sort of thought provoking clash of morals or understanding, you know that whole learning aspect of it. This new incarnation is shit stirring for the pure sake of it as I've learned nothing from him, only pandered to his trolling desires. Having said all that, don't even bother communicating abstract ideas into the sarchasm.. it's simply a matter of the grey matter not being able to think laterally. Lateralus is a good song.

I'm praying for you baphomet, I see you on a Dawkins-esque holy mission here trying to wisen up the deluded hippies that believe in these fanciful ideas like transcendental intelligences, the irony that I see from this new agey bs perspective but would laugh at if I thought like you is that:

..."Much of what the world calls sanity is really a hypnosis or dream, much of what is called lunacy is a terrible perceptiveness." - Robert Anton Wilson

Push that envelope brother. Part of that might be to shut up and listen.. like you claim to do occasionally. I mean how are you meant to hear serious subliminal clues when you're rational mind is too busy disproving such a possibility could even exist. The point is we all share onemind... haha remember him? another self confessed know it all. Seriously hope i never join that group. I'm content in knowing that i know sweet fuck all.

"All I know is that I don't know nothing" - unkown

Edited January 31, 2009 by The Dude

[baphomet]

ONCE AGAIN BAPH YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT THIS TOPIC GO AND DO SOME PROPER RESEARCH IF YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO DEBATE THE TOPIC CROWLEY'S MAGICK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SACRIFICE OF ANYTHING

"The bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is best." - Aleister Crowley

"The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony--thus, by sacrifcing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was invoking Mars. In such acase a ram would be more suitable. And this ram should be virgin--the whole potential of its original total energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." - Aleister Crowley

(from 'Magic In Theory And Practice')

Lol, Aleister Crowley was the father of modern satanism!!

EDIT: It's also worth noting that a goat was sacrificed before the ceremony that lead him to "receive" the information that he wrote in the book of the law that you quoted, the amount of animals that were sacrificed in his rituals was ridiculous, I could name countless examples and more of him recommending that human children be sacrificed, eg: a little girl be cut up into 9 pieces after being raped and having her head burned, etc.

HAHA EACH TO THEIR OWN MY FRIEND ACTUALLY MANY THELEMITES WOULD INTERPRET THE SAME WAY LOOK UP THE ORDER OF THELEMIC kNIGHTS RUN BY GERALD DE CAMPO IF YOU THINK THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WIH MY INTERPRETATIONS i'M SURE YOU'LL FIND THEIRS TO BE VERY SIMILAR wave-finger.gif

p.s i HOPE THE OLD BUGGER GETS A LAUGH i'VE BEEN PISSING MYSELF LAUGHING DURING THIS WHOLE THREAD

Yea I've been laughing at you the whole thread too

And I pissed myself when I read that there was some bunch of assholes calling themselves "THE ORDER OF THELEMIC kNIGHTS"

Since you think your so funny I'll let you in on the real joke.. YOUR IT!! (Along with "THE ORDER OF THELEMIC kNIGHTS", etc.)

Aleister crowley was nothing more than a pseudo occultist and a charlatan not to mention a big time plagiarist.. That shit that you are trying to put your airy fairy meaning too was actually taken from the European branch of the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light even though most idiots these days credit it to crowley, there was virtually nothing original about this man whatsoever, from his fake masonic degrees to his bogus titles (Lord Crowley, etc), he was a total fraud!!!

"Which one would you recommend and have you read it yourself?

I BELIEVE THERE ARE A FEW GOOD ONES A GOOD THING TO LOOK FOR IS SOMETHING WHICH ADDRESS BOTH THE PERSONS NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE TRAITS , THE BEAST OR TYHGE MARK OF THE BEAST ?? BY gERALD SOMETHING OR OTHER YEAH MY POINT IS AT LEAST FIND ONE AND HAVE THE DECENCY TO READ IT BEFORE MAKING ACCUSATIONS AND CARRYING ON THE WAY YOU ARE "

So in other words.. You told me to read a biography on crowley whilst not even knowing the name of one or or being able to spell the name of an Author? After telling me to go and do some research?? Who's the laughing stock now buddy???

The best most balanced biography of crowley is called 'A Magick Life' and is written by Martin Booth.

"he was manipulative and deceptive but generall y only towards those deserving of such treatment"

Who are these people that you are referring to that deserve such treatment and why??

RON HUBBARD IS A GOOD ONE I CAN THINK OF SADLY CROWLEY'S MANIPULATION RESULTED IN THIS IDIOT STARTING SCIENTOLOGY BUT TO CROWLEY IT WAS ALL FUN AND GAMES

BECAUSE THEY WERE STUPID AND THOUGHT OF CROWLEY AS SOMETHING WHICH HE WASN'T BECAUSE THEY SORT THINGAS THAT WEREN'T REAL OR THEY HAD NO UJNDERSTANDING OF CROWLEY WOULD MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE IDIOTS AND I THINK RIGHTFULLY SO

You obviously don't know how he treated the other people in his life, which doesn't surprise me cause it's obvious now that you don't know what your on about but the irony of your statement was not lost on me, it equally applies to you!!

He abandoned his wife Rose and his daughter in Vietnam and ran off with a mistress in Shanghai, Rose was unable to cope on her own and his daughter died of typhoid. He also deserted Leah Hirsig who had to turn to prostitution. Not to mention that he was a spy and a traitor to his own country..

EDIT: Why stop there, he fucked over just about everyone in his life, bashed and tortured his wifes, he hung Rose upside down and tortured her whilst making her watch him fuck some other woman and this was an almost nightly occurence.

I could go on for ever with all the lives that he sadistically ruined.

"tHIS i ABSOLUTELY FIND LAUGHABLE THE COMMENATRY ON LIBER LEGIS STATES THAT YOU CANNOT EFFECT THE WILL OF ANNOTHER WHILE SEEKING TO ACHIEVE YOUR OWN THIS IS INCLUSIVE OF ANY ANIMAL AND ANY HUMAN MEANING AT THE VERY LEASTT YOU CAN'T KILL ANOTHER PERSON OR AN ANIMAL AND FURTHER TO THAT YOU CANNOT TAKLE WHAT ISN''T YOURS SO I REALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOU DERIVE TYOUR WARPED INTERPRETATIONS OF THELEMIC PHILOSOPHY OR CROWLEY FROM BUT THEY CERTAINLY HAVE NO FACTUAL BASIS"

Crowley claimed to have sacrificed children and eaten human flesh and was kicked out of Italy for this reason, whilst there one of his followers was hospitalised and died of septicemia after drinking cats blood, he condoned and called for violence against so many different people and animals that it just seems silly for me to have to point it out, once again you obviously don't know what your talking about!!

"Haha Necronomican has been pretty much the most discredited book in the history of occult studies but yeah what ever floats your boat."

Yea, I knew that, I was just fuckin with ya, actually it's based on the fictional writings of H.P. Lovecraft, all copies by all authors are fake, Collin Wilson even wrote an article admitting this called 'The Origins Of A Spoof', funnily enough Anton Lavey (another phony) based many of the rituals of 'The Curch Of Satan' on the fictional work of Lovecraft too.

The thing is that the books that crowley used to summon demons were also fakes, for example the Goatia which is also known as the lesser key of Solomon and attributed to King Solomon is also a fake as are all books attributed to King Solomon, the abramelin was another fake purpotrated by Waite.

I just find it hilarious that so many stupid cunts worldwide believe this nonsense and think crowley possessed magical powers, leary was one such stupid cunt.

"you really don't know shit about Crowley"

I told you you'd regret that

"IT GIVES ME AND I'M SURE MANY OTHERS A GOOD LAUGH"

It's all about he who laughs last

"So I'm a Crowley n00b, unlike the self professed know it all that by the look of it hasn't read a single one of his books... "

Hey dude, why don't you name a page from 'The Quabalah Of Aleister Crowley' or 'Magick Without Tears' and I'll quote something from it to prove you wrong, or you could maybe name some other books and I'll go through some of the boxes in the garage and quote from them, quick before I use them as toilet paper..

"I'm praying for you baphomet, I see you on a Dawkins-esque holy mission here trying to wisen up the deluded hippies that believe in these fanciful ideas like transcendental intelligences"

Trancendent intelligences lol, right.. FACT is that hippies are some of the most manipulated, mislead, deluded, airy fairy shit talking individuals in history. The movement that they believe has it's roots in "love" in FACT has it's roots with satanists who were trying to bring about a "new age" under the lie of love.

PS: The "hippies" (Crowley/Leary fans) who like to think they can take the moral high ground with me should STFU from now on, crowley was a racist and a raging anti semite.

"Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin was a huge Crowley fan, he even bought Crowley's Mansion on the banks of Loch Ness, maybe the "Pick of destiny" was summoned by Crowley !!! hey yeh we could be onto something here folks !!"

Old news mate, your finally onto the fact that Jimmy Page was a tryhard satanist fuckhead, you can add a couple thousand other bands to that list too.

Edited January 31, 2009 by baphomet

[mr b.caapi]

lol its amazing how mixed beliefs can cause so much conflict, im sittin on the fence for this one.

Oh and btw Jimmy Page was a try hard satanist fuckhead? actually no im not new to this fact, i worship the man, have done for 20 years ,hes a fuckin great guitarist, a rarity, i do not judge him by his beliefs. Only his skills. if you want my opinion, there is no such thing as Satan and there is no such thing as God. there is a Positive and a Negative force to everything yes, but it isnt beings.

p.s stop being so nasty

p.s.s im still sittin on the fence, but im beginning to jump off.....

Edited January 31, 2009 by mr b.caapi

[baphomet]

Just because he can play the guitar doesn't make him any less of a fuck head, that's like saying that hitler was a great man cause he could paint, he's still a satanist which I'm afraid makes him a total fuckwit IMO

PS: It's much safer on the fence

[mr b.caapi]

Just because he can play the guitar doesn't make him any less of a fuck head, that's like saying that hitler was a great man cause he could paint, he's still a satanist which I'm afraid makes him a total fuckwit IMO

PS: It's much safer on the fence

like i said mate, i dont judge him by his beliefs, only his skills. So yeh he may be a fuckhead, thats not the point. You may be able to paint, but it doesnt make you less of a fuckwit. Ive just hopped of the fence mate.bring it on ;)

[nabraxas]

Crowley claimed to have sacrificed children and eaten human flesh and was kicked out of Italy for this reason

Robertson is one of the few people who have swept away the old story that Raoul Loveday, while staying at the Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu, died from drinking cat's blood during a ceremony conducted by A.C., which naturally lays the blame at Crowley's feet. Robertson wrote,

"When a young undergraduate named Raoul Loveday died from drinking impure water at the Abbey, his wife went home and sold her story to the Sunday Express."

Later in life Betty May, Raoul's widow, set the record straight in her small autobiography Tiger-Woman: My Story [originally published in 1929 E.V.; republished in 1972 E.V. by Gerald Duckworth & Co. Ltd.], explaining that Crowley was not at fault, but just the opposite! Raoul died from drinking impure water, not at the abbey, but somewhere along a thirteen mile route between the abbey and a monastery that he and Betty May had visited. It was Crowley who had warned them not to drink the water, and so it was not A.C.'s fault in any way, shape or form that Raoul died. He died because he failed to heed Crowley's warning.

Robertson also makes another good point shortly after mentioning the Loveday incident. An oft repeated tale to "prove" how despicable Crowley supposedly was is that he was so awful that even the dictator Benito Mussolini could not stomach him and so had A.C. kicked out of Sicily. I myself have often pointed out that Crowley was considered the head of not one, but two "secret societies", the A.°.A.°. and the O.T.O., and had ties to various Masonic bodies. When a dictator takes control of a country, one of the first things he must naturally do to protect himself and his regime is to disband organizations that possibly pose a threat by subversively acting to undermine his control. The very nature of a "secret society" makes it suspect in the eyes of a dictator. Crowley had not been booted out of Sicily because he was so awful even Mussolini could not stomach him. Study a biography or history of Mussolini and he will probably emerge in your mind as more of a "beast" than Crowley was! No. Crowley was kicked out of the country as a simple matter of course. It was the natural thing for a dictator to do and A.C. certainly was not the only person told to leave - but he was one of the luckier ones as some were forced to leave the entire planet in a very permanent manner! Anyway, Robertson wrote,

"At the same time came the ascent of the Mussolini regime, with its hatred of all secret societies except its own, and The Beast was expelled from Sicily."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/parthenon/7069/acscrap.html

If Crowley hadn't been expelled from Italy people would accuse him ov being in league w/Mussolini.

[baphomet]

Let's say your right and that the cause of death wasn't the cats blood and was as a result of tainted water and that her later retraction had nothing to do with the agreement that Lea Hersig made her sign, I'm not sure that the fact that there was cats blood was ever disputed but lets for arguments sake say that there wasn't.. By his own admission Crowley killed his first cat as a young child, according to him he gave it a large dose of arsenic then chloroformed it, hanged it above a gas jet, stabbed it, cut its throat, smashed its skull and, when it had been pretty thoroughly burnt, he drowned it and threw it out of the window to see if cats really did have nine lives.

There's no reason to have to go on what other people say about him, his own words regarding the rape and sacrifice of children and animals and other acts of violence are damning enough!!

Who cares what you think anyone would say about him and Mussolini? Crowley apparently claimed to be partly responsible for Hitlers Mein Kampf and claimed that he was responsible for the Nazi schwasticker. He also claimed that he was responsible for German submarine attacks on British ships.

So your going to try to be a crowley apologist now nabraxas that's gonna be a tough position to take.

I picked up on the magical affairs thing.. nice one (private joke)

And Greek Magic you reckon eh? I might give it a go some day.

Edited February 1, 2009 by baphomet

[Neoshaman]

Baph Baph Baph my little hypocritical friend to crticise me for not remembering a biography when 90%+ of what you've said is complete unsubstaniated bullshit is quite laughable , since I've already adressed this issue I'm really not going to reply to you point by point really its pointless to put in that effort as I don't seek to change your mind I'm quite happy to let people wallow in their own egotistical arrogant dribble every reply you've given me has just proven you know less and less

can I just say I'm still laughing your actually a perfect example of the type of person Crowley enjoyed fucking with so much ... To actually take anything of Crowley's on sheer face value one would have to assume to have no understanding of the topic , its really just sheer arrogance baph

Wow you can regurigitate shit you've read from a book congradulations my friend most of us learned to do that in year 3 and i must say proper sources you'd actually use a page reference as I would imagine someone as arrogant and small minded as yourself would have trouble sourcing from the actual texts I'm guessing a lot of it is misprinted crap you've found on the net or statements are being used out of context anyone thats studied Crowley knows would would need to need the entire text in question to understand it .

"The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony--thus, by sacrifcing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was invoking Mars. In such acase a ram would be more suitable. And this ram should be virgin--the whole potential of its original total energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." -

this is aprime example of my point from the chapter on the blood sacrifice I believe.All of book 4 is a commentary on various techniques applied in magick and is supposed to be a definitive work on ceremonial magick to ignore a practise that has been applied by the Mystics of nearly every culture at some point would be truely ignorant further reading of the entire chapter clearly indicate a far deeper meaning then the face value of the text which sadly Baph is all you seem to be able to comprehend

Seriously man do youu even get into ethnos and pyschadelics I'm guessing not its quite unusual to come across someone in this scene so arrogant and full of themselves you constant posting on crap that no one really gives a fuck about is pretty clear indication I mean if your just here to be an arrogant shit stirrer I 'm sure you would find yourself far more at home on one of yahoo forums there'as lots of small minded people who have stuff all understanding of spirituality just like yourself maybe you could form a little club

I can't stop pissing myself laughing at your arrogance man its just something else I'm over replying to this thread as i said earlier I rather be posting about things related to this board or organising meets .,.ohh but I'm sure I'll drop by here for a laugh to see how many others have had fun with you it seems you give us more and more entertainment everyday

see you round Baphomet don't you feel a bit silly but having Crowley's OTO motto as your usename seeing you dispise the man so much I find it funny you would pick a name so closely associated to hm . roflol

Ohh just one more proof of yyour arrogance for those that care to investigate further I'm sure its of no interest to you Baph http://www.thelemicknights.org/

Edited February 2, 2009 by neoshaman

[nabraxas]

And Greek Magic you reckon eh? I might give it a go some day.

http://www.amazon.com/Greek-Magical-Papyri...g/dp/0226044475

there's a long review at the bottom ov the page which is really good.

[chilli]

Baphomet's apparent lack of a capacity to understand irony has again led to much frustration, amusement and bewilderment for those he speaks with!

[ThunderIdeal]

not being able to think laterally. Lateralus is a good song.

yeah! it really is.

[chilli]

Intrestingly enough and i know this could be getting a little warpped and off track but does anyone know if there has been any decent studies done between these entiities/energies that some magick parctioners claim to be able to envoke in comparison to entities experienced while under the effects of something like DMT or Ketamine .

Have you heard of Jacques Vallee? You might find some of his stuff on UFO phenomena interesting.

Seems to me like very similar phenomena shared between DMT elf experiences, apparent alien contact, channelling/spirit contact.

Strange folk, sinister saviors.

I just wish I knew if it was all just dreamland stuff, existing in the threshold of a collective unconscious, or if they are 'really' there, and the DMT/occultic/dream world is the medium through which they speak.

Actually, I've wanted to start another thread on this subject for a while (there have been a couple on SAB regarding DMT entity contact).

Edited February 5, 2009 by Sublime Crime