20 min "Tropo-Yopo", 5-AcO-Yopo and Rue Resin

[C_T]

Would the danger be from vomiting while unconsious?

I read alot of purging happens, can this be a possible situation? or does the purging only happen if your conscious for it?

[FancyPants]

[Deleted]

Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

Edited January 8, 2009 by FancyPants

[Chiral]

Don't know of anyone actually vomiting whilst using just Yopo or Cebil..but of course it could happen..you don't pass out during the experience..mind you at the end of journey you might take some rest after CEV's...the nausea is during the first 20mins or so..which is ok as you are wide awake and trying to deal with moving concrete or flooring..

For a while I thought DMT was the king of Psychedelics as far as power and visual journey goes etc...but with this stuff its almost not the case..remembering that these seeds are not in fact Yopo either...the psychedelic crown is still undecided yet. These compounds are very very interesting and their use as add mixtures can probably have some mind blowing effects. As with so many Ethno's the nausea gets in the way a lot..I'd love to be able to know what cause's it from all the different plants..weather its a combination of other different alks in the plants or what..but it would be a great project if some data where made available on a lot of the plants we are familiar with..that labeled what component of each plant ie..which alk or combination of alks will make you nauseous.

Personally I can deal with the nausea.. but I'd rather not..for me it takes my mind to just that.. and that alone...I can't enjoy the ramp if I'm sickish....some here will say oh but that's part of the healing etc..and purging is necessary..particularly with aya..

On a more basic less spiritual level it's your body rejecting the toxins in the drink, it wants them out before you poison yourself...that part of our body is very good at doing its job...nausea is just the body not being able to make up its mind if its quite toxic enough to let go through the stomach etc..can you tell I'm a doctor..I use all the big words..

Isolating and enjoying the active compound on its own is allways very enjoyable..but most of you here would probably be jumping up and down saying boo hiss that's not the experience ..you have to do it the natural way..

To them I say..BOLLOCKS...and leave the room with sep funnel in back pocket.

H.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[Zaka]

Zaka! I would think they would be more in a open area. Have you checked local botany books?

I found leonotis leonoris after years of looking for it......... it was in the local botany books! Maybe also check with archeological / history people of St Lucia.

Indeed Zaka brah........ irie limin coolin and stylin!

Yeah Man,

I have checked all local botanical books, some dating back 1934 original. Most of the larger plantations and botanical gardens, hotels ......I work with wood so always watching trees.

Seen many Albizia julibrissin but not any other mimosa trees...

Trying to get hold of some peregrina seeds.... the place I ordered that was screwed up and sent A.C......

So I'm looking for any one who has genuine peregrina seeds......swap /sale......whatever! Only need maybe 10 or so....

Nuff Respect Dawg! Life's a beach!

Z

[Micromegas]

When I was living in Korea I took advantage of the customs laws there to buy what were labelled as a.peregrina (#3) from Maya Ethnobotanicals. At the time (2005) there was a lengthy discussion at aya.com about which seeds were best for making yopo and the peregrina #3 were recommended. Now, I don't know if there were truly peregrina, but the seeds from maya were more powerful than columbrina experienced elsewhere. The difference was more qualitative. Meaning, there were distinct similarities but the so called peregrina were superiour in colour, depth and presence. Physical symptoms were exactly the same tho. So maybe try maya ethnobotanicals for genuine peregrina but by the sounds of it, it is very hard to know. I have always been impressed by the quality of their products tho. Plug ended.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Micromegas

[mutant]

Noone here is willing to comment on the bufotenine related comments I made in page #1 of this thread??

[Torsten]

Hey, what about that thing that the active in the prepared snuff is Bufotenine-HCl and all that stuff??? I thought it was a myth that these seeds do contain known 'desirable' tryptamines or at least that they contain them in sufficient amounts, and that the whole 'trick' was to do the right tek to tranform the bufotenine rich seeds to an active bufo HCl snuff.... ??? Any comments??? I haven't read about these stuff for a long time, but this is what I rememeber...

Not sure where you would get the HCl form from. The whole preparation method of snuffs usually involves freebasing them which in the case of cebil and yopo is done with lime and ash.

Both colubrina and peregrina seeds have been analysed and found to contain tryptamines. Colubrina usually mostly bufotenine with a little dmt, while peregrina contains dmt and and 5MeO-dmt.

I am really not sure what your question is getting at, so maybe you can rephrase it with the above information in mind?

[Chiral]

mmmm yeah the HCI bit is a bit weird...are you saying that its extracted to become a salt with HCI...sounds a bit left field as the usual extract would be to free base and there for no need to salt as it would be x-tal evaporated from solvent.

H.

[Zaka]

When I was living in Korea I took advantage of the customs laws there to buy what were labelled as a.peregrina (#3) from Maya Ethnobotanicals. At the time (2005) there was a lengthy discussion at aya.com about which seeds were best for making yopo and the peregrina #3 were recommended. Now, I don't know if there were truly peregrina, but the seeds from maya were more powerful than columbrina experienced elsewhere. The difference was more qualitative. Meaning, there were distinct similarities but the so called peregrina were superiour in colour, depth and presence. Physical symptoms were exactly the same tho. So maybe try maya ethnobotanicals for genuine peregrina but by the sounds of it, it is very hard to know. I have always been impressed by the quality of their products tho. Plug ended.

Thanks for the heads up....I'll check them out....

Respect

Z

[shruman]

I'm not sure but I think mutant may be grapling with the concept of calcium bufotenate?

[mutant]

Yep, exactly shrooman thanks...

Of course since I read about that bufotenine stuff, I read T's comments on common anadenenthera misconception. Anyways, I always thought that none of the most common tryptamines, dmt and and 5MeO-dmt, where involved in the yopo/cebil thing, but very slightly, if at all. And it sure shows from reports and ethno material that is must be another cake.

[FancyPants]

OK I'm not going to apologise for asking questions because I want to learn, but if the question has been asked ad nauseum then I do apologise, but I haven't seen it addressed anywhere...

Why do every posted bit of information on Yopo or Cebil or Vilca/Angico, whichever they say to roast the seed until popping so that the coating can be removed? They're really quite easy to peel without popping. Just bend them a few ways and the coating peels off.

Tantra also suggested to me that one keep the coatings (as it had been said in other places that the coatings may contain higher doses of n,n, dmt than the seed inside. But a friend of mine tried smoking (with and without added bicarb+water) the seed coating and got no discernible effects. I'm talking about the seed coating not the outer pod casings (which have been "proven" to contain n,n dmt and I wish I could get my hands on some). Should my friend have perhaps saved a lot more of the dark seed coating and used a greater quantity than one waterpipe bowl full?

Sorry guys that's two questions. I'm trying to ram this shit home in my head. Yes I have used search engines but perhaps not well enough.

[t st tantra]

i think roasting the seed gets rid of the last of any moisture but mainly removes some of the nasties and beanyness making them less problematic to use.prob get a finer grind too.

i still think if you have enough[!,lol] seed shell it will be active.......basically all parts of the plant tested have had some activity.........i prob should get my opinion tested sometime.......would an equivalent amount of just seed have been active?

t s t .

[Fenris]

Would high yeilding powdered Acacia bark mixed with CaOH work as a snuff or is it only the calcium bufotenate from the appropriate seeds that would work.

From what I can gather most of the snuff doesn't really depend on nn-DMT but on the other DMT's.

I have UTSE already and didn't really find anything relevant to this.

Would nnDMT snuff need MAOI in the system to work?

[Chiral]

Would high yeilding powdered Acacia bark mixed with CaOH work as a snuff

I have also wondered about precisely that..doesn't high dose free base DMT work insufilated to a certain extent..?

To tell the truth Ive been quite confused about this for sometime....and how these snuffs actually work as Dmt and others usually aren't active orally...yet these snuffs are highly active without a maoi..

thick as 2 short planks me sometimes I tell ya.

H.

[shruman]

Could do fenris, one way to find out realy.

The CaOH should freebase dmt, as is done with real yopo.

you do'nt need MAOI for dmt to be active via snuff but it could be used to increase effects.

If all else fails you could enhance the bark ala changa.

Sounds like a few things to investigate there.

Yes you can insufilate freebase DMT hunab but apparently it burns very bad. Much better to use the fumerate.

[Fenris]

I don't think the CaOH is just purely to freebase the alkaloid, it seems to form a metal complex like calcium bufotonate or if you do the same thing with morphine, calcium morphenate. This makes me wonder if it might form a calcium DMT salt complex rather than freebassing the DMT.

OK class, tonights homework is

[Zaka]

Would high yeilding powdered Acacia bark mixed with CaOH work as a snuff or is it only the calcium bufotenate from the appropriate seeds that would work.

From what I can gather most of the snuff doesn't really depend on nn-DMT but on the other DMT's.

I have UTSE already and didn't really find anything relevant to this.

Would nnDMT snuff need MAOI in the system to work?

Irie, Sorry a little off topic

I was wondering something about acacia.......

Many years ago I found a amerindian stone mortar & pestle on a small peninsular, under a grove of Acacia (Nilotica....I think?)

At the time I was unaware of any cultural use, but the site was without doubt a ceremonial site.

I found many other artifacts at the same location.....axe heads, zooamorphic figurines, and pottery shards....

I think it was actually a launching site for tribal wars....and they may have used the trees to get themselves all wound-up, ready for a fight or long journey.

Considering I can not find any anadenanthera on this island I wonder if they weren't at the acacia.

They were definitely grinding something into a powder.

Here's a photo of the mortar & pestle, note the japs eye, making it a phallus as well, not sure what they would do with that???Lol..heehee

Respect

Z

[Uncle. S]

Haha nice mortar and pestle. So has anyone taken the acacia snuff any further? Also the calcium bufotenate that was mentioned above, has anybody had experience with that? I found this little procedure on erowid and the guy who wrote it seems to think its the best thing since sliced bread.

"So I played around quite a bit and finally invented my own very extraction technique. Here’s how it’s done. Boil the powdered beans in water made pH 3 with hydrochloric acid for about an hour, and then filter out the beans, and repeat 2 more times with new water, also made pH 3 with hydrochloric acid. Concentrate the combined water extracts down and evaporate to leave some solid brownish gunk. Weigh this gunk and measure out an equal portion of calcium hydroxide (the same pickling lime used to make Yopo and Vilca snuff!).

Dissolve the gunk in a small amount of isopropyl alcohol, just enough to make it a thick syrupy liquid, then add an equal portion of water, then mix in the calcium hydroxide. Mix it very well. You don’t want any clumps. It should be the consistency of thick pea soup. Let it sit for about 6 hours for the calcium hydroxide to react with the bufotenine, creating the basic salt calcium bufotenate. Now evaporate it (you can use an oven at 300 F for this step). Once it’s evaporated completely add a generous portion of acetone. Mix it well. The acetone won’t dissolve any of the calcium hydroxide, or much else, but will easily dissolve the calcium bufotenate. Let it sit an hour or more for the non-soluble particles to sink to the bottom, once the acetone takes on a clear dark amber color, poor your mix through a filter to obtain the acetone.

You can repeat the acetone extraction with new acetone a few more times until its clear. Evaporate the combined acetone to get an extremely potent extract that is nearly 90% pure calcium bufotenine, which is one of the most potent forms of bufotenine. It’s the form found in properly make Yopo and Vilca snuff that has been used for thousands of years in South America. It’s more psychoactive than free-base bufotenine and much more psychoactive than the acidic salt form found in the unprocessed beans. "

He smokes it in an improv base pipe and says 10-15mg blows your socks off with no adverse effects, unless going over the 15mg mark. What do you guys reckon? I have a friend in Brazil who might give it a shot soon also.

[FancyPants]

i think roasting the seed gets rid of the last of any moisture but mainly removes some of the nasties and beanyness making them less problematic to use.prob get a finer grind too.

i still think if you have enough[!,lol] seed shell it will be active.......basically all parts of the plant tested have had some activity.........i prob should get my opinion tested sometime.......would an equivalent amount of just seed have been active?

t s t .

Thanks for the answer I'm so sorry I didn't reply because I'd forgotten all about it; too many topics all at once.

Last batch was mixed seedcoat and all because of no noticeable activity with coat by itself. Next time will collect much more.

***

The A. colubrina var. Cebil plants sold at herbalistics have been guaranteed to be var. Cebil? It's been a while since I've read about the Anadenantheras but the Cebil variety are the ones that supposedly contain 5meo don't they? And the var. Colubrinas just contain bufotenine?

[t st tantra]

they prob all contain mixtures of alkaloids with only the major alkaloid having noticable effects.......my opinion is vcolubrina is mainly bufo while vcebil seems more bufo plus 5meo .....vfalcata may be mainly 5meo.....anaden is a very variable plant though and much about it is unknown.

t s t .

[FancyPants]

I'm very sorry that you have to keep repeating yourself, Tantra. It's just that when you know you've read so many conflicting opinions and a person can't judge for themselves (to get it into our thick heads) unless they've seen for themselves/ourselves. And that's not to say i don't believe you! Just mean it's hard to remember which person (and thus who to believe) said what.

So thanks again for quantifying

[mutant]

they prob all contain mixtures of alkaloids with only the major alkaloid having noticable effects.......my opinion is vcolubrina is mainly bufo while vcebil seems more bufo plus 5meo .....vfalcata may be mainly 5meo.....anaden is a very variable plant though and much about it is unknown.

tst's estimation seems more according to what I have read in more 'scientific' reports. one ref is stafford encyclopedia, even though I know its an older publication...