seeing my thoughts

[Chiral]

Just lately particularly the last month I have noticed that i can have CEV's when ever I close my eyes...I can do this pretty much everyday now..its very cool..not quite acid or mescaline like but still definitely.. definable imagery.

I am not sure why this is happening..but I have a theory.

Would humans brains expand to use more of the area as we evolve..is this imagery part of our conscious expansion..I think it maybe. Before all the comedians jump in and say stop taking what ever..I can assure you I have been relatively sane and sober the last couple of weeks..the last 2 in particular..coffee and cigarettes is the strongest indulgence of late. It's like Im thinking of stuff while my eyes are closed and I'm given some really nice patterns and spirals and sometimes really familiar objects..similar to the last minute of a spice ride..not full on but still nice.

I remember reading something that T St Tantra wrote in another thread about a global conscious..like when someone has a great idea...its not just that person having it...its actually many many people at the same time having the same idea..I'm wondering if these seemingly passive CEV's are global too. What ever they are and whatever the reason...I'm not complaining..I'm just curious... and I find I'm sleeping really well and don't remember dreaming at all anymore..but definitely have the CEV's just before sleep or even during rest on the couch whilst chilling.

seeing stuff like this is common..

H.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[Undergrounder]

Those colours and CEV shapes are a common experience when you close your eyes or go into a very dark place or something. Many cave-wall paintings made by pre-historic man are of dots and swirls and colours and shapes, which makes sense since caves tend to be very dark. It's thought those patterns and swirls are what the pre-historic people saw when in the dark caves, and going into the caves was like a religious ceremony, or sober 'trip'. AFAIK they're an illusion caused by stimulation in the visual centres of the brain, random firings interpreted as shapes and images etc.

Shapes and images before sleep is also very common, and related. It's called hypnagogic imagery, and tends to happen as you're drifting off to sleep. The imagery can be simple colours or incredibly intricate, moving scenes.

[faustus]

I remember reading something that T St Tantra wrote in another thread about a global conscious..like when someone has a great idea...its not just that person having it...its actually many many people at the same time having the same idea.

some dude called sheldrake proposes the morphogenetic field theory, essentially we tap into the collective memory of our species as we share a common genetic code. don't know if i buy it but it's an interesting read.

re: your CEVS, don't have a clue but next time you have them try manipulating them with your thoughts. would be interesting if you can control them.

maybe it's hallucinogen persisting perception disorder or you're getting flashbacks. are there any environmental/emotional cues that link your past alleged hallucinogen use and your current CEVs?

[t st tantra]

interestingly i said the same thing to another sab member a couple days ago.....cevs most of the time atm.......

t s t .

[Chiral]

some dude called sheldrake proposes the morphogenetic field theory, essentially we tap into the collective memory of our species as we share a common genetic code. don't know if i buy it but it's an interesting read.

re: your CEVS, don't have a clue but next time you have them try manipulating them with your thoughts. would be interesting if you can control them.

maybe it's hallucinogen persisting perception disorder or you're getting flashbacks. are there any environmental/emotional cues that link your past alleged hallucinogen use and your current CEVs?

I've tried to manipulate them...and what I noticed is as soon as I try that.. the image will freeze..then when my thoughts wander again they start up moving again..This was one of the first things I tried... as with psychedelics..particularly Mesc...I can morph the imagery to suit what I'm thinking, but these seem to fragment or crash when I attempt any control.

"hallucinogen persisting perception disorder" ...maybe..I mean I have thought that also...I believe in some circles it's called "Burnt out Hippy syndrome".

T st tantra..lol..I'm glad someone else is having these in sober states. I reckon others are having them too but are not concentrating or releasing they are happening. Mine are incredible..so full on sometimes and very enjoyable....Maybe it's all that Yopo...

H.

[rahli]

These visions you are seeing have been around for a very long time and are at the very heart of modern human consciousness. They have been described by neuropsychologists as 'phosphenes', 'form constants' and 'entoptic phenomena'. These phenomena are thought to be visual sensations derived from within the structure of the eye. These visual phenomena (dots, lines and lattices) may progress, through (what may be) the action of the brain attempting to make sense of the patterns, into true hallucinations of iconic animals, humans and man-beasts or (otherwise known as therianthropes).

Hallucinagenic drugs are know to produce entoptic phenonema and after-images can be observed for seveal months after the experience.

There is a whole 630 pages of great information about trance states, cave art and the evolution of art and religion in the book -

Supernatural: Meetings with the ancient teachers of mankind. by Graham Hancock.

[_e_]

some dude called sheldrake proposes the morphogenetic field theory, essentially we tap into the collective memory of our species as we share a common genetic code. don't know if i buy it but it's an interesting read.

i resonate with this theory... heard john raulston saul describe it as the 'arrow of evolution of consciousness'.... the arrow of human consciousness, the arrow is always the same length and as it moves forward, the tail evolves as does the tip.

i di a 3 mth cleanse recently and before i indulged in entheogens again i was having some bad panick attack i lied down in a car and jsut focused on my breathing and the light was flickering throug the trees reminding me of the imagery i used to get as a kid when i closed my eyes in the morning on the way to school.

after a while of lying like this jsut letting go into my breathing and the patterns, they became really really intense, like dmt or full scale mescaline mandala, fractal multi coloured/rainbow kaleidescope, but without any of the usual physical sensations and discomfort.. (i.e a single sensory hallucinatory state).

it was the most asthetically/visually appealing experience ive ever had and lasted some 45 minutes, from slow ebbing fractal mandlals of blue and orange and purple to deep red and very rapid fast pass visions/symbols/imagery.

[paradox]

i've done a number of 10 day vipassana meditation courses & each time around the second day i begin to get very vivid, incredible closed eye visuals. at the end of each 1 hour meditation session when i would walk out side into the light & close my eyes i'd be confronted by the most amazing visuals which are only comparable to high end psychedelics. only these visions i find are much more interesting as they are induced by my own focus of mind & not by a drug.

each time this occured, which would be many, many times a day i would see a unique image. it might just be a still image which looks like an electron microscope image of the surface of an insects back or something, or it might be an incredibly detailed morphing fractalicious lanscape or a just an extremely detailed & beautifully composed collection shapes.

i haven't really thought of any theories to explain what it may be, but i guess i just saw it as confirmation that my meditation practice was going well, my mind was becoming more focused & able to pick up the more subtle functionings of my brain without being distracted by mental noise.

i'm a musician & i like to draw & i know that when i am able to focus my mind in such a way my latent creativity is greatly increased. if i was able to take paper & some pencils on these courses the stuff i would have come out with i reckon would have been incredible.

i'll also add that througout my life i've noticed some pretty crazy closed eye visual phenomena, particularly when i lay down to go to bed. most common i must say is just like a red & yellow electric static which is always present when i close my eyes & takes notice.

[_e_]

when i was in india getting shirohdhara as part of my panchakarma treatment i had what i would call re-ocurring endongenous dmt release, which involved meeting with an ancient/entity in a fractal/jewel temple for up to 3 minutes at a time repeatedly over four days.....

i had been clean of any intoxicant for almost 12mths at that stage.

ive also had similair closed eye imagery when doing vocalisation/toning in specific accustic environments, such as prayer caves in india.

[Chiral]

Psychedelics are some sort of key to a door..and once the door is open we can come and go as please...we learn to open our minds and tap in at anytime. I agree its very pleasing as there isn't any of the usual side effects such as body load and tension. it kinda makes you feel a little dumb though..as in what are we to do now....I mean we have vision and some basic knowledge..but what can we do with this and how is it supposed to be used and learn from...what do we do with this now we have noticed it. My theory that its part of our evolution as a global conscious is questionable..but until I can unravel it or be taught how to use it ..or for that matter have someone explain it scientifically..I'll just have to cling to my tentative theory.

Possibly at some point we might not need any substance at all...our plants will have taught us and we move on without them anymore.

H.

[paradox]

it kinda makes you feel a little dumb though..as in what are we to do now....I mean we have vision and some basic knowledge..but what can we do with this and how is it supposed to be used and learn from...what do we do with this now we have noticed it. My theory that its part of our evolution as a global conscious is questionable..but until I can unravel it or be taught how to use it ..or for that matter have someone explain it scientifically..I'll just have to cling to my tentative theory.

H.

well, certainly in buddhism & many eastern spiritual traditions, you're generally encouraged to not get distracted by any visions you may have, but just to let them go. when i talked to the vipassana teachers about what was happening to me, each time i was told not to worry about it, to let it go as it is just basically a symptom of the meditation practice & has no importance in & of itself, and to get distracted by the things you see & start to intellectualise it is counter-productive & will undermine the purpose of the meditation, which is focus of the mind.

[Chiral]

Thought I'd bump this, as once again this phenomenon has re appeared ...for the last 3 days I can close my eyes and see almost like running movies and be transferred to somewhere completely different...and the clarity is over whelming...yesterday I closed my eyes and was viewing a car traveling through a dirt road in some forest..strange thing was my view was from the body of the vehicle like a car cam...placement was somewhere near the drivers front right wheel and above the headlights...was amazing and very surreal...too many others to mention...but usually now when I close my eyes I don't get darkness or blackness or what ever I get full blown visuals of something or another...

H.

[dood]

Thought I'd bump this, as once again this phenomenon has re appeared ...for the last 3 days I can close my eyes and see almost like running movies and be transferred to somewhere completely different...and the clarity is over whelming...yesterday I closed my eyes and was viewing a car traveling through a dirt road in some forest..strange thing was my view was from the body of the vehicle like a car cam...placement was somewhere near the drivers front right wheel and above the headlights...was amazing and very surreal...too many others to mention...but usually now when I close my eyes I don't get darkness or blackness or what ever I get full blown visuals of something or another...

H.

Ive had similar things in the past, sometimes visual references of places can be shot into your mind then later on whilst travelling you may find them.

All those Myan and almec and aztec fellas would get into the Ayausca or mushy trips and become their totem or whatever to get views of the forest etc. Maybe your totem is a vehicle..? I should be slapped for that one...;)

In the future theyll probably work this shit out and it wont be such a fringe subject, it could harnessed maybe..?

[immanuel]

i experience light visual distortions sober, maybe a light case of hppd or maybe im just aware of them when most aren't. although ever since i first did mushrooms i have been able to the visuals when i am stoned. i can experience visuals on marijuana comparable to an eighth of cubes, OEVs and CEVs they are quite amazing, and i can control when i see them.

[mauve]

Thought I'd bump this, as once again this phenomenon has re appeared ...for the last 3 days I can close my eyes and see almost like running movies and be transferred to somewhere completely different...and the clarity is over whelming...yesterday I closed my eyes and was viewing a car traveling through a dirt road in some forest..strange thing was my view was from the body of the vehicle like a car cam...placement was somewhere near the drivers front right wheel and above the headlights...was amazing and very surreal...too many others to mention...but usually now when I close my eyes I don't get darkness or blackness or what ever I get full blown visuals of something or another...

H.

Hey Hunab, you asked for remote viewing and now that you have it you are complaining ?

[sharxx101]

Could it be that your 3rd eye is opening or fully open? Very interesting

[Chiral]

Hey Hunab, you asked for remote viewing and now that you have it you are complaining ?

LOL...not complaining at all...it's pretty wild stuff...actually all day today when ever I close my eyes have been getting very colourful acidesque style visuals without the cid...can't be bad can it...

yeah Sharxx that's a theory I had tinkered with a few weeks ago actually and it's also part in theory of the name of this thread ...is this evolution....peoples third eye's open as we get closer to 2012 or it's part of the quickening etc...so much unknown data at present.

H.

[mauve]

I would think it is linked with your "monkey elders" experience...didn't you asked for it ? You don't think that the mushroom experience is for real ?

[t st tantra]

been having cevs most of the time for a while now.

a week or 2 without a working teev in the house seems to have changed my visual mind state too.....cant define it ,just feels different clearer,cleaner[?].

but for the past few days most of my cevs are like real life movies,looking at very realistic scenes.....no meaning from the content though.....

its been good to get away from news reports esp as my mind was putting me into disaster stories too much.......replaying how the people would have died in that plane crash off the coast of sth am for example!

t s t .

[Chiral]

I would think it is linked with your "monkey elders" experience...didn't you asked for it ? You don't think that the mushroom experience is for real ?

I think it's better to keep an open mind and not be so predictable...have been having these CEV's for some many months now and the mushroom experiences came after these started...I don't discount anything as the elders and the mushroom experience may have well been proactive in finalising a small part of my travels here on this plane...I have to also consider weather this is a brain malfunction or burn out even...does one start having CEV's when one has done way too many psychedelics...?

I don't know and would think that if that was the case some other forms of pyscological breakdown would manifest it's self accordingly. Those recent journeys are and feel like a culmination of a very large part of my destiny...for some reason those last few journeys have grounded me, and placed me in a situation where I feel I no longer need the plants experiences for sometime, as I have been on a very long torrid journey of escaping death and surviving to get to this point.

I believe those mushroom experiences were as real as anything I have ever experienced...as real as I am now sipping this hot coffee...I await the day someone else meets or see's these elders...I would be very interested to hear more about natives in the Amazon etc their trip reports or experiences say with the stroparia and find and knowledge of weather these beings have been seen or met before...perhaps even Australian aborigines have met them through acacia or some other form of tryptamine based plant. The curious part for me is that I saw them once...some 6 years earlier and then not again till this year....there have been many other times I could have met them in between, but there are two distinct similarities of how I met them and that was I was laying down peacefully and in quiet...

One aspect of these CEV's is sometimes imagine that you are working with a photo editor on your computer say photoshop etc...and you make the whole picture blurry by zooming right in....now imagine that say for 5 secs you can see about 4 pixels totally clear ...like a window looking through the blurriness...this is one type of CEV that is very unique and fascinating...it's like looking through the clearest window in the world...total clarity amongst fuzz and blur.

H

[Chiral]

been having cevs most of the time for a while now.

a week or 2 without a working teev in the house seems to have changed my visual mind state too.....cant define it ,just feels different clearer,cleaner[?].

but for the past few days most of my cevs are like real life movies,looking at very realistic scenes.....no meaning from the content though.....

its been good to get away from news reports esp as my mind was putting me into disaster stories too much.......replaying how the people would have died in that plane crash off the coast of sth am for example!

t s t .

yes the news and even just being subjected to the outside world can have suggestive qualities on your dreams...they say that your dream window opens but briefly during the day and the visions and knowledge that your brain is interpreting at precise moment transpires and manifests itself as the dream you have that night...I tend to have nightmarish quality dreams and unfortunately see many plane crashes and death and destruction...plenty of symbolic imagery from around my neighborhood and a lot imagery from where I grew up...also if I have been intently watching say a show I am fond of, a character from that show will appear as part of the dream...I would be very interested to see if one was subjected to exactly the same visual conditions outside everyday for 6 months how the dreams would change or not...or no TV or internet and no outside for 6 months just food and exercise and meditation...so many things to try so little time.

H.

[~shameless~]

I briefly flew over the topic and there is some stuff i agree with and have experienced myself, mainly when eyes are closed and i'm in a realxed frame of mind, i can almost -see// imagine- ancient geometry, i can almost get the full spectrum of colours , just with out the middle eastern godess ( with blue eyes) tempting me LOL

What i have been pondering for some time now, since working in construction lately - Does any one else here think that this could impair day to day functioning of a someone??

What i'm really trying to ask is does anyone else think that, this could make someone unsafe @ work??, as opposed to some citizen who doesnt get, does care or doesnt know about this kind of subject.

Hmmm, i think i'm no better or worse than anyone else operating machinery or working at hieghts.

I'm bit tired,i had a massive day at work - sorry about the wording,-

cheers and be safe people!!

[FoleyLane]

Hey Hunab Ku...you may find the information on this link interesting-- http://montalk.net/notes/active-dreaming

It is not exactly about hypnagogic imagery, but takes things a step further.

btw, does Hunab ku translate into 'galactic butterfly'

[mutant]

Everybody has experienced CEVs at some point of their lives, especially when young. Entoptic phenomena can and will be experienced by anyone who tries to. The intensity of them might raise by obsessing over them or getting anxious about them, but never to the extension, permanency and intensity that 'HPPD' sufferers claim... Also, several of the possible visual effects of HPPD are not just entoptic phenomena enhanced, but clearly, the influence of heavy psychedelic use in vision...

does one start having CEV's when one has done way too many psychedelics...?

Yes, I am personally convinced that people who have done many psychedelics eventually experience , at least in some degree, some lasting visual phenomena, and CEVs are the mildest form of visuals and the common denominator in all cases. I would suggest you don't think about it too much, and don't obsess over it....

Does any one else here think that this could impair day to day functioning of a someone??

Yes, again, unfortunately. It's called HPPD if it's impairing ones everyday life. And investigating this a bit further you will find that this syndrome has various degrees of intensity. It sounds like what you both are experiencing is pretty mild, so it might just be the fact you're thinking about it too much.

On to heavy cases fo the syndrome - note I used the term syndrome instead of disorder - I think it suits more to be called a syndrome as a cluster of interlinked phenomena of which the visuals , according to sufferers, are usually not the worse part. I think that the core of the syndrome and the interlinkings can be different from case to case, and one might divide the cases in two wide branches a) the simple cases b ) the burn-outs - but in any case the biggest differentiating factor is the perception of it as annoying, impairing or just different and interesting.... But it's clear most cannot compromise so easly with it... ignore it or be happy with it....

So, to conclude, it seems persistent visuals are a normality for a psych-freek, a shaman, a former acid/shrooms abuser etc... it goes with the price... Most who managed to cope say they don't notice them too much, but I reckon it takes a strong will - that's why most cease the use of every drug that worsens the syndrome, sooner or later.

I will also note that this sooner or later thing might be the crucial factor which will determine the intensity of the effects of the syndrome, if it is to be developed....

sooner ---> milder case

later ------ > more serious case

Edited July 31, 2009 by mutant

[t st tantra]

any thoughts on people who take psychedelics but rarely experience visuals?

i have 2 friends who claim this......one may be a functional autistic the other claims its to do with his lefthandedness.....

t s t .