Ibogaine Rite of passage

[Chiral]

Couldn't find this here in the search engine so here is the link to great Documentary..if its been posted before Mods please edit or remove.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...mp;q=&hl=en

H.

[Garbage]

You gotta respect it when deaths have been reported.

[baphomet]

I'm highly suspicious of the claims made in this film. I tried iboga a few times (in a country where legal) and I'm still hanging for a taste, more than ever. I will try pure ibogaine next when I'm in Canada, maybe that will work but be careful, this shit fucks with your heart, breathing, etc and I'm surprised more people have not died to be honest.

Edited November 9, 2008 by baphomet

[apothecary]

I'm highly suspicious of the claims made in this film. I tried iboga a few times (in a country where legal) and I'm still hanging for a taste, more than ever. I will try pure ibogaine next when I'm in Canada, maybe that will work but be careful, this shit fucks with your heart, breathing, etc and I'm surprised more people have not died to be honest.

I think it would be worthwhile if you could elaborate baph, your experience sounds interesting.

[Torsten]

I'm still hanging for a taste

what drug?

btw, success in single dose administration mode is only about 50%. but for those 50% it is the end of their addiction. For the rest it is a lot more complicated and requires redosing, therapy, continuous small doses of ibogaine, etc. For about 20% it doesn't work at all, but you can usually tell after their first dose and not waste more root on them.

This doco is by far the best ibogaine doco around. I am giving a presentation on iboga at EGA and will be referring to this doco a fair bit. For those who want to see it in larger format than youtube/google, the dvd is available in the shop.

[nabraxas]

what drug?

Baphomet has stated more than once that he's trying to rid himself ov heroin cravings through the use ov ibogaine.

[Chiral]

I'm highly suspicious of the claims made in this film. I tried iboga a few times (in a country where legal) and I'm still hanging for a taste, more than ever. I will try pure ibogaine next when I'm in Canada, maybe that will work but be careful, this shit fucks with your heart, breathing, etc and I'm surprised more people have not died to be honest.

Baph you say you tried..IBOGA..and not IBOGAINE...do you think there is something missing with the Iboga used ..I mean can you explain more about its preparation..and who prepared it. what experience did they have etc..was it the right dosage, where follow up doses encouraged, what where the surroundings you took it in etc..there's too many questions left hanging for us in your statement we would like know more.

H.

[tryptamine]

Sounds like some of the problems have been caused by a certain Mexican Ibogaine clinic treating people with chronic Hep C and other medical conditions whose bodies simply can not tolerate this treatment.

[DreamingNagual]

Baph you say you tried..IBOGA..and not IBOGAINE...do you think there is something missing with the Iboga used ..I mean can you explain more about its preparation..and who prepared it. what experience did they have etc..was it the right dosage, where follow up doses encouraged, what where the surroundings you took it in etc..there's too many questions left hanging for us in your statement we would like know more.

H.

Is there a difference? I was under the impression that the alkaloid is called "Ibogaine"

and that the Iboga Name refers to the Plant name "Tabernanthe iboga"

I could be wrong on this count? Anyone care to clear it up or confirm?

[Torsten]

Is there a difference? I was under the impression that the alkaloid is called "Ibogaine"

and that the Iboga Name refers to the Plant name "Tabernanthe iboga"

I could be wrong on this count? Anyone care to clear it up or confirm?

There are two sides to consider.

1 - ibogaine is a clearly measurable compound and hence underdosing is rare or at least avoidable.

2 - iboga contain a complex mix of alkaloids and it is obvious that this mix is considerably more potent than pure ibogaine. However, the plant material is often diluted, adulterated or simply not iboga at all.

My preference in terms of addiction treatment would always be for a mix of the two. A minimum amount of pure ibogaine to make sure underdosing is not possible, plus an additional amount of root bark to ensure a more complex experience and a more long term healing power.

[DreamingNagual]

Cheers T,

I really had no Idea, So am i right in thinking Ibogaine is the pure isolated compound from the plant, And Iboga is the raw material from the plant, Is this correct?

Thankyou again for the explaination!

Edited November 13, 2008 by DreamingNagual

[Torsten]

yes, that's correct. The plant itself is called iboga [or eboga] so any part of it could theoretically be referred to as iboga, however, most of the alkaloids are in the rootbark and hence this is the preferred therapeutic.

[baphomet]

what drug?

Sorry should have been more specific, taste = slang for a hit of heroin

But I was also hoping iboga would help with long term cravings for benzo's, nicotine and other shit too.

success in single dose administration mode is only about 50%. but for those 50% it is the end of their addiction.success in single dose administration mode is only about 50%. but for those 50% it is the end of their addiction. For the rest it is a lot more complicated and requires redosing, therapy, continuous small doses of ibogaine, etc. For about 20% it doesn't work at all, but you can usually tell after their first dose and not waste more root on them.

Well that is disappointing but it would explain a lot. I must be in the other 50% .

I found it hard to believe the people in this film who said that they felt their addiction leave them immediately after taking ibogaine cause it certainly wasn't anything like my experience with iboga. I do realise that iboga is not pure ibogaine though and I do intend to try ibogaine.

The other reason why I had lost faith in ibogaine and was starting to think it was all bullshit was THIS thread in which Nobun (who is apparently an ibogaine treatment provider) said many things that seem to contradict what is said in this film, unless I am misinterpreting it.

Here's an example:

"Many many folks come to us' with a mis-conception that Ibogaine shall wipe out the withdrawal".. "truthfully' there would be no point in taking Ibogaine for withdrawal to Methadone or Subutex' only Heroin would seem to be effective' due to the five day window of Ibogaine covering th Kappa et Mu receptors"

It may be a great treatment for addiction but the impression I got from watching the film was that it was almost a miracle cure and that it left the patient free of addiction for ever (or at least a very long time) often after one dose, I can't remember hearing anything about it's limitations and the fact that it doesn't work for some people but I could be wrong, I may have missed it.

I think it would be worthwhile if you could elaborate baph, your experience sounds interesting.

Sure..

I took iboga several times at doses ranging from 1 - 24g (in a country where it is legal to do so!). I am used to bitter tastes so I just chewed it and swallowed it, wasn't that much worse than apricot kernels really but I realise that this taste is not for everyone.

I tripped hard for a few hours and felt completely out of it for several days afterwards. I must say that I felt really good for a few days, heavy and disorientated but good nonetheless.

I guess I wasn't craving anything for a few days after each dose but I put that down to the fact that it's effects are fairly drawn out and it leaves you too wasted to want to use anything else really, unfortunately soon after I began craving opiates again, every time.

RE the health effects I was talking about earlier, have you ever thought to yourself.. "oops I almost forgot to breathe"?? Not something you want to say too often! My first real dose was 24g and in retrospect I realise that this was a little too much, not that I would not have a dose like that again but I wont jump straight into it. I have heard nobun talk about doses at 36g, and the bwiti apparently take hundreds of grams (but that's moist not dry isn't it?), this scares me and I want to work myself up slowly. I think it's best that I get used to it by taking several small doses (2 - 10g) before considering higher doses again, likewise if I use Ibogaine I will start with microdoses and work my way up.

I think because I have been relatively drug free for so long I am just overly sensitive to anything, I didn't use any drugs at all for about 5 years, no pharmaceuticals, cigarettes, coffee, nothing. I even stopped eating refined sugar for a long time. Now if I even have a cup of coffee my heart rate goes up dramatically and it brings on anxiety because I'm just super sensitive.

The physical symptoms that I was referring to that were a little disconcerting were increased heart rate whilst at the same time breathing becomes very shallow, and I think it was it's effect on blood pressure that makes it very difficult to even sit up in bed let alone get up and walk around.

From what I can see these reactions are quite common and I completely understand why people recommend that a sitter be present. It does not surprise me to hear that there have been several deaths from heart failure, I know that most of these deaths have been put down to pre existing heart conditions but I can completely understand how it could be fatal for someone with a heart condition.

I have also read that in ibogaine therapy people are taking much larger amounts of ibogaine than would normally be found in iboga so it makes sense that this be done with someone who is trained to administer ibogaine, I was one of those people who laughed at the "sitter" thing a while ago but not any more .

I'm not suggesting that people don't take iboga or ibogaine, just that they be fully aware that this is nothing to fuck around with, I know that it is not always an affordable option for people to have treatment in a clinic cause they do tend to charge a fair bit but I can really see the advantage of having someone there monitoring your heart rate, etc, someone who is trained and prepared for any situation.

I know that this is not always possible, I myself am going to use ibogaine without medical supervision when I am overseas but I will start with very small doses and work my way up to what I am comfortable with, If I decide to take higher doses in future I will make sure it's done in a clinical environment.

"Sounds like some of the problems have been caused by a certain Mexican Ibogaine clinic treating people with chronic Hep C and other medical conditions whose bodies simply can not tolerate this treatment."

Ibogaine is claimed to be a wonder drug for the treatment of chronic hep C, and was used by lotsof to treat patients with chronic hep C and heroin addiction at the same time, so why then should hep C+ patients be denied treatment?

Why don't you listen to Howard Lotsof talk about hep C treatment with Ibogaine HERE

From Lot'sof's notes: (can't copy & paste all examples)

Example 1

A thirty-three year old male diagnosed with HCV and using 1/4 gram of heroin a day was administered 25 mg/kg ibogaine HCl. Following administration of ibogaine heroin use ceased along with swelling of the liver and pain in the area of the liver.

Example 3

A sixty year old male testing positive for HCV RNA genotype I, administered the following dose regimens of ibogaine HCl. Subject weighed 79 kg. Doses administered were as total doses and not mg/kg. Day 1: 10 mg, Day 2: 20 mg, Day 3: 20 mg, Day 4: 30 mg, Day 5: 50 mg, Day 6: 75 mg, Day 8: 100 mg.Day 10: 150 mg, Day 14: 300 mg. HCV RNA UL/ml was reduced from 780,000 to 644,000, Pretreatment Alkaline Phosphatase was 99, AST was 103 and ALT 195. Post treatment Alkaline Phosphatase was 88, AST 89 and ALT 127. An additional 250 mg ibogaine HCl reduced HCV RNA UL/ml to 154,000. Further testing showed continued reduction to HCV RNA UL/ml 78,200

Example. 4

A forty-two year old female testing positive for HCV RNA type 3. RNA IU/ml was 12,600,000. Subject was administered a total of 27 mg/kg ibogaine HCl in the following regimen:

6 x 2 mg/kg

1 x 12 mg/kg

1 x 3 mg/kg

HCV RNA IU/ml was reduced to 50,100. Prior to ibogaine treatment patient’s urine was dark and stool light. Post treatment color of urine and stool returned to normal.

Encouraging results

-Repetitive low dosing with ibogaine provided continuous depression of viral load.

-Genotype 3 appears highly responsive in keeping with results of interferon riboviron therapy.

-Continued reduction in viral load after stopping of ibogaine therapy observed.

-Less toxic than current HCV therapies.

Future development

-Interest of pharmaceutical companies with experience in development of HCV drugs.

-Preclinical confirmation of efficacy if possible.

-Phase I/II clinical studies to confirm findings and establish preferred dose regimen.

Edited November 15, 2008 by baphomet

[rahli]

Link

Please use this information wisely.

[rahli]

Here is an explaination as to why Ibogaine treatment doesn't work for everyone -

"As soon as the visions stop, a form of ibogain transformed by the body - ibogaines metabolite - takes up to torch in a long lasting way. The enzymes of the liver transform ibogaine into a closesly related molecule that is called either noribogaine, 12-hydroxyibogaine, or O-desmethylibogaine, depending on who is doing the research - there is disagreement about its discovery.

It is detectable in the plasma, the liver and the brain several days after its ingestion. Certain researches suggest that the metabolite produces its own psychological effects - the stage of inner reflection and the assessment following the visions - beginning as soon as its level has surpassed that of ibogaine. It is difficult to say, insofar as this stage resembles the one provoked before the visions when using a medium dose of iboga. This metabolization of ibogaine is said to be carried out by a particular enzyme. As it turns out, 5 to 10 percent of Caucasian individuals do not have the gene that is necessary for its production and do not benefit from the theripeutic effects of active elements - of which ibogaine is one - metabolised by this enzyme. With these individuals, an anti-addiction treatment using ibogaine is very likely to fail. And we might imagine that among the Westerners for whom ibogaine treatment did not work, many likely belong to this minority of individuals missing the gene that is nessessary for the production of this metabolite"

Ravalec V, Mallendi, Paicheler A, 2007,Iboga: the visionary root of African shamanism, Park Street Press, Vermont, pp. 169-170.