Iran showdown

[Jesus On Peyote]

Heyas,

I know politics isent the best of topics to talk about,but i cant help but feel compelled to make this thread.

Recently im sure most of you that watch/read the news have heard theres a major offensive in iraq's city of Basra,(the first by the actual iraqi army) well when i first heard the news, i instantly thought somthing was up, because thats the main sea port city that ships out the oil,which also happens to be a Shia majority city (where a militia supposedly loyal to iranian values base them selfs). Anyway,i kind of brushed it off as business as usual..

But today i got an email, from a ahem..christian prophecy news watch site which i subscribed to a while ago, (im not a jesus freak!) the emails are basically news articles that you dont usually hear about in mainstream news, though a bible view point, and every now and then there are some interesting articles about whats going on round the world.

ANYWAY, the 2 main stories i read about are whats going on in the mid east. here are links to 2 interesting articles.

War with Iran May Have Begun with Offensive in Iraq

http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/April02/0212.html

Russia ‘Alarmed’ As US Readies April Nuclear Attack On Iran

http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/April02/0213.html

Now i donno what to make of these,could be just normal propaganda sort material or it could have some level of truth to it. (iwhen i read news, i usually digest it and try to filter out the bias stuff from any kind of news and make up my own mind based on logic.) Ill leave it at that,and if anyone is interested read away.

[Undergrounder]

I don't think Bush has the power, time, precedent or mandate to attack Iran before he leaves office.. And i don't think the Democrats will attack Iran. There would need to be some serious escalation on the part of Iran to force a war and they've been all bark and no bite so far.

[Auxin]

Bush has long been itching to attack Iran but Iran is innocent and after fabricating lies to start two wars it just didnt work on the third. Not to mention that the literate fraction of my countrymen know that Iran would put up a much bigger fight than Iraq or Afghanistan. Afghanistan was already a defeated country when we invaded and Iraq had been under ongoing bombardment by my governments military consistently since 1991 and right before that was the 8 year Iraq-Iran war. Iraq was already near its breaking point. Iran is organized, fortified, well armed, and a majority of its citizens believe in the country.

The Bush regime would strike if they could but theres very little that could give them the opening short of a false flag operation.

One of my biggest fears is Israeli forces carrying out a false flag op inside Iran to trigger a war. A Israeli team firing a iranian rocket at one of the many US military ships off their shores would do it, as would a staged nuclear weapons test. The latter would most likely get the entire international community to join the fight regardless of the fact that they could not have made the weapon that was detonated.

I'm trying to be optimistic. The only thorn in my optimism is knowing that the US is fully and completely immune from international law due to a spineless and fundamentally corrupt international and domestic communities. Since the US government knows its will never face prosecution, no matter what the crime, its hard to have true faith that theres a line the US wont cross.

[TheFriendlyPlanter]

I'd call that a Very dodgy source.

Most of what they talk about is sheer speculation and those religious types are so stuck in the Cold War it's not funny, they have a complex theory for everything. I'd say people like this greatly displease the good God especially since they tout themselves as being followers & prophets while hypocritically supporting the war.

Any crazy religious nut can come up with a theory and these guys seem to specialise in it.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Yea, the source is kind of dodgy ( but they did "predict" the israili-Hezbollah war,based on factual news you dont really hear in mainstream news.), but in terms of the russian posts, there are quotes so what was said was actually said, if you know what i mean, its the way the religious people twist what is said that is the problem with these articles.

Im following the same thinking as Auxin,false flag ops are americas and israils specialties. hypothetically, they could attack (however it may come about) and yea, theres absolutely no prosecution or major international backlash.(especially if a false flag op was done,theld not only be no backlash, theld actually be support) Also like Aux said, iran is no push over compaired to afghanistan and iraq,so ittle be an air attack,possibly nuclear.

The main thing that compelled me to make the post was the fact that bush has always said he wants to make sure irans nuclear work was stoped, and always says the military option is on the table (and even awhile ago the report that said they could even use tactical nukes.) which is also in what russia is apparently "alarmed" at from the link. There is also the new powers that was given to the president during bushes parasitic rein in the whitehouse that would make such an event a perfect set up for him using his emergency powers,(practically making him a dictator) so he might not even leave office.

One more thing, im not sure if many people know much about the bibles book of revelation, but there are scriptures about "a great tribulation" that is to take place, which begins with a king from the east of babylon,(now iraq for those that dont know) starting a war, in which then they get destroyed (flaming biblical style destroyed) by another king of the north (or something like that,been years since my biblical apocalyptic psychosis days).

im not saying i believe in its story, but a shit load of all christian denominations in america and else ware do. so seeing as these wars are religion orientated ,im sure some think tanks could exploit it and make it a self fulfilling prophecy.

its hard to have true faith that theres a line the US wont cross.

Sadly i feel the same way. sure hope their wrong.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Jesus On Peyote

[apothecary]

but they did "predict" the israili-Hezbollah war,based on factual news you dont really hear in mainstream news

I guess you are talking about the year prior kidnapping of Cpl Galid Shalit (or whatever his name was?) and following pressure by religious right in Israel?...hardly something that wasn't in mainstream news, but the dots only became apparent if you followed the story.

Iran is organized, fortified, well armed, and a majority of its citizens believe in the country.

Make no mistake, there is nothing in Iran that could hold out the US. The US military in whole is a damn good killing machine, they're designed to destroy countries, I reckon you would only see a couple of extra weeks tacked onto the original Iraq offensive in terms of timeframe.

Of course, this "country killer" skill is mutually exclusive from "country builder" so that's where their problems will be, in holding the resources, especially the Gulf.

But seriously, there are US bases in Afghanistan and Iraq, political support in Turkey, and the Kurds always want the Northern chunk of something (ok now I'm being racist)...

The consensus in the publicised intelligence community is that the most likely scenario is that Israel will 'respond to provocations' and the US will be forced to step in to protect its ally. The rest is history. To think that Europe and (especially) Britain won't jump in for their chance to control that entire belt of resources (especially with Russia tightening the Gas screws) is silly.

Sure, a few oil tankers will get sunk in the Gulf every now and then, but to think the US (and cronies) couldn't take it if they wanted (even in their current stretched state) is a bit naive I think.

I feel the only thing that would stop this eventuating is a massive public backlash, which, maybe or maybe won't happen.

If Bush wants to do it, he has to do it soon. He could be holding off to escalate things quickly before the end of his 2nd term and then palm it off to whoevers next.

As for the original question, I gotta say, after examining all available facts and historical research, all I can come up with is "dunno".

EDIT: Forgot to add, pretty much ALL the other countries in the region view Iran as one of the bigger fishies in the pond, and to think that they aren't nervous about their growing cross border influence (probably US propaganda but probably also true) and wouldn't also like to land a few of their own licks n kicks if they could is probably naive.

Edited April 5, 2008 by Sina

[FungalFractoids]

British commanders fear that General Petreaus is about to announce that Iran is at war with the US in Iraq and will push for airstrikes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...05/wiran105.xml

[Jesus On Peyote]

I guess you are talking about the year prior kidnapping of Cpl Galid Shalit (or whatever his name was?) and following pressure by religious right in Israel?...hardly something that wasn't in mainstream news, but the dots only became apparent if you followed the story.

Yea the article was before the israili dude was kidnapped, headline was something like "israil prepares for war with hizballah", anyway, what they said about that,from what they gathering from israili reports one possible motive/ mission was to push the hizzas back further north and get rid of as much of their weaponry as possible,to neutralize the threat of a backlash from hizzas from the north if they attacked iran.

And yea, the shorter time bush has in office the more likely it is to happen, if it does happen.

That article is another worrying sign. also on the russian front, Ukraine and Georgia haven't been granted nato membership

Edited April 6, 2008 by Jesus On Peyote

[tobydoo]

British commanders fear that General Petreaus is about to announce that Iran is at war with the US in Iraq and will push for airstrikes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...05/wiran105.xml

Sadly, if that announcement is made it could push Iran back into the 'story du jour' 'villian du jour' status in the U.S. media. And sadly enough that's generally that's where it begins & that's what it takes for us to make our tragic decisions. We are, after all, becoming a little complacent and bored with Iraq.......we're Americans. Sigh...

[Undergrounder]

Sadly, if that announcement is made it could push Iran back into the 'story du jour' 'villian du jour' status in the U.S. media. And sadly enough that's generally that's where it begins & that's what it takes for us to make our tragic decisions. We are, after all, becoming a little complacent and bored with Iraq.......we're Americans. Sigh...

Yeah i think the average Joe thinks war is an entertainment show on prime time news to make life a little more interesting.. When i was like 12 years old i thought it was awesome that we were bombing Bosnia or Lebanon or Yugoslavia or whoever it happened to be at the time. The thing is i grew up - i reckon most people just couldn't give a fuck.

Since this thread was made i've been watching Bush and Petreus constantly chucking 'Iran backed insurgents' into every single sentence they can I wonder whether it's a move to try and get McKain elected president. It's the same as Howard screaming about boat people or Tampa or Bush and Terrorism, just a smokescreen to make people too afraid to switch to a liberal leaning candidate in the face of some imagined horrible threat. "War with Iran is imminent" goes the line, "Now is not the time to show weakness to the evildoers" blah blah. I say that because i still don't think this current administration can have a war with Iran in the time it has left, it's just run out of time.

[Painite]

I say that because i still don't think this current administration can have a war with Iran in the time it has left, it's just run out of time.

As of Friday G. Bush is proclaiming, openly, not hearsay or speculation, that "quote", "Iran is posing greater threat to peace in Iraq than Al Queda at this point". Here we go. The last hurrah of Bush...? I believe it's highly possible. Do not get me wrong, I am NOT a democrat. I do think that G. Bush is one of the worst presidents that this country has seen. What do you call blind megolomania...I know alot of republicans that feel the same way. Is Hillary the answer? ...dear God help us. ....Obama....Too many bad fish in his not so past closet.

Anyway, for those of you that think there's not enough time for Bush to make a move....Think again. Let's stay tuned.

[Auxin]

 

 

Obama....Too many bad fish in his not so past closet.

I hear that criticism about Obama alot.. funny no one cares that Obama swore that, if elected, he would consider the use of thermonuclear weapons against Iran. Call me a fucking tree hugging hippie dreamer but I try to avoid supporting people willing to drop a hydrogen bomb on a peaceful foreign country over a fairly trivial political argument.

[Jesus On Peyote]

I dont recall obama saying hell use thermonuclear weapons against Iran, but im sure he would have at some time just to keep the people happy, damn, is there no one that is a safe electee in the US?

So far we got Mcain singing bomb bomb bomb bomb iran at a conference a while ago -

Obama saying held use thermonuclear weapons on iran -

And Hillery who looks like a man and would do whatever the powers that be tell her to.

Anyway, since the iraqi forces stoped their assault of basra, the iraqi commander who was in control has just about been fired, and the US and UK are now back in launching another attack against the shia group in basra.. looks like there abit too determined to get rid of them.

I donno when, but im nearly 95% sure someone is gonna go for iran, sooner or later. and im convinced ittle be a black op now seeing as the US has been over emphasizing that they dont plan on going to war with iran. meaning that when the op happens ittle be irans fault and thell just be "responding" to the iranian actions.