Bible written while high?

[FungalFractoids]

Does anyone know if Benny is going to be at Iquitos again this year? I'd love to meet him...

Bible written while high?

From correspondents in Jerusalem

March 05, 2008 12:01am

Article from: Reuters

THE biblical Israelites may have been high on a hallucinogenic plant when Moses brought the Ten Commandments down from Mount Sinai, according to a new study by an Israeli psychology professor.

Writing in the British journal Time and Mind, Benny Shanon of Jerusalem's Hebrew University said two plants in the Sinai desert contain the same psychoactive molecules as those found in plants from which the powerful Amazonian hallucinogenic brew ayahuasca is prepared.

The thunder, lightning and blaring of a trumpet which the Book of Exodus says emanated from Mount Sinai could just have been the imaginings of a people in an "altered state of awareness", Shanon hypothesised.

"In advanced forms of ayahuasca inebriation, the seeing of light is accompanied by profound religious and spiritual feelings," Mr Shanon wrote.

"On such occasions, one often feels that in seeing the light, one is encountering the ground of all Being ... many identify this power as God."

Mr Shanon wrote that he was very familiar with the affects of the ayahuasca plant, having "partaken of the ... brew about 160 times in various locales and contexts".

He said one of the psychoactive plants, harmal, found in the Sinai and elsewhere in the Middle East, has long been regarded by Jews in the region as having magical and curative powers.

Some biblical scholars were unimpressed. Orthodox rabbi Yuval Sherlow told Israel Radio: "The Bible is trying to convey a very profound event. We have to fear not for the fate of the biblical Moses, but for the fate of science."

[shruman]

"Benny Shanon of Jerusalem's Hebrew University said two plants in the Sinai desert contain the same psychoactive molecules as those found in plants from which the powerful Amazonian hallucinogenic brew ayahuasca is prepared."

Wonder what the other plant is?, and whats in it, DMT? & wether they used this other plant for psychoactive effects?

[FungalFractoids]

^^ I'd assume it would be DMT, probably from acacia as they are common in the Middle East...

[XipeTotec]

not sure where syrian rue is exactly located...or the sinai desert for that matter!! but my educated guess would be that the plant referred to would be syrian rue. Fungal.... wouldnt the name "harmal" suggest a relation with harmine containing species rather than a DMT containing species?

Edited March 5, 2008 by XipeTotec

[shruman]

"not sure where syrian rue is exactly located...or the sinai desert for that matter!! but my educated guess would be that the plant referred to would be syrian rue. Fungal.... wouldnt the name "harmal" suggest a relation with harmine containing species rather than a DMT containing species?"

Harmal is another name for syrian rue.

[PD.]

 

OK.

[strangebrew]

Don't know about the bible but sometimes I've wondered if Jesus(if he really existed) was high, in the way people like William Blake might have been, permanently. He seemed to have quite a psychedelic perspective on things.

[Jonny Deformed]

Bible written while high?

Obviously..

[shruman]

"^^ I'd assume it would be DMT, probably from acacia as they are common in the Middle East..."

That would be my assumption too but given ayahuasca only needs the vine (MAOI) to be called ayahuasca & the range of other plants that can be used in ayahuasca it could be anything & Ive heard nothing about any middle eastern plants being used for DMT but thats not to say they did'nt.

Edited March 5, 2008 by shruman

[XipeTotec]

"not sure where syrian rue is exactly located...or the sinai desert for that matter!! but my educated guess would be that the plant referred to would be syrian rue. Fungal.... wouldnt the name "harmal" suggest a relation with harmine containing species rather than a DMT containing species?"

Harmal is another name for syrian rue.

ahhh, ic, I have misread the passage. I knew that harmal was a reference to syrian rue... I just thought that was what was being debated. Ill read more carefully next time.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Lol so much Christian bagging here. (im not a Christian so it dont bother me),but damn, they get it hard.

How about the hindu system of religion? was that based on pure meditation? or some really good substances?

And theres many more religions that where probably (90 percent) invented under the influence. (alot of them from the south americas, which is way known to involve substance use to contact a "spirit god" type entity .)

I personally think jesus did exist, but he was a man, a philosopher, and his main msg was to basically be a good human to yourself and everyone around you. Much like every single religion from Alaska to china.

As a philosopher, i have much no doubt he would have had some kind of substance during his time ( i actually remember a passage in the bible when i was studying\reading it (just out of interest), where jesus condemns the roman authority for banning a simple garden herb,i have no idea which book it was in but iv tried finding the passage heaps of times with no avale, but i saw it,it was in the orthodox bible,not the evangelical/new age ones.

It doesent say anything other about the plant then just him calling it a garden herb, but it must have been something for the romans to ban it throughout their empire,maybe even to extinction.

Anyway, i might have gone off topic abit but what im getting at is that if this is true and the bible did have some highness in it,maybe most of, if not all "spiritual" movements of the past and even some but less nowadays , are all "inspired" in many ways by some external substances found only in earths (the mother) green nature. (All ancient religions abide by mainly moral "humane" codes, (no kill,no steal and so on)

Saying that though, from how a spiritual movement evolves, the true msg is lost and it is used for political purposes,soon or later.

For all we know jesuses movement could have been like a 60s hippie movement. im pretty sure the actual bible wasent written till years after the events, long enough to forge peoples believes into a political movement) ( if you know what i mean)

Sorry if i got too off topic

Peace

[nabraxas]

How about the hindu system of religion?

one word-- Soma

[Vertmorpheus]

Theres a few refs in the Bible to healing and teaching oils, the spice trade, homebrewing, burning shrubbery, mandalas (Ezekiel) and all that... also more than a couple of questionable translations that have obscured the original wordings... the complete lack of a "definitely virgin mary" for simple starters. But if its now said to be "teaching oils" then it wouldnt be far from "Revealing" "insight bringing" "mind opening" whatever... probably not meant as "oils good for stopping scroll-stickage".

Also has to be remembered that those that wrote about JC particularly wrote with a fair bit of love and hence a fair bit of bias, im sure they left the time he got trashed n punched someone for laughing at his sandals out, likewise the bit where he said, skank in tow "I'll be back in a bit guys, enjoy the wine" (possibly spun out for a larger crowd by adding potentiating agents, of course). Hindsight is often more flattering than insight, esp when it concerns someone that was an unorthodox element of his society, hanging out with some roughnuts and down n outs on occasion... really... he was a homebrewing chippie that didnt really start doing much of note at all til his early 30s... im sure he had the odd blast before then.

Anyway, does this now mean I can get permanently fucked up on drugs and feel more noble about doing it? thatd be lovely!

VM

[Undergrounder]

^^ I'd assume it would be DMT, probably from acacia as they are common in the Middle East...

Acacia Elephantorrhiza:

Family : Mimosa.

It is an ubulawu plant used by the Zulu’s. Ubulawu is a term for plants that cause visionary and prophetic dreams, and allows one to connect with and receive messages from the ancestors and spiritual world.

It has a huge corky textured underground caudex and masses of yellow fragrant mimosa-like pale yellow flowers in spring before the leaves are fully developed.

[ThunderIdeal]

JOP i'm pretty sure the apostles weren't even born in jesus' lifetime.

i'm a bit shocked that anybody (on this forum) would even debate that tripping = religion.

[PD.]

Yeah they where TI, this picture proves it.

...from Italian stone pines confused as mushrooms, straight to wine that was really an aya brew. Because it was available and they had spiritual enlightenment must mean they were hallucinating via the use of psychoactive substances......

For the many thousands of well educated minds that have ever pondered stories in the bible it makes me wonder why they have never though of an idea such as this. I mean, if such brews were taken to acheive this state then why wouldnt there be some sort of mention of it in the texts, even an esoteric message of sorts there somewhere. Wine is mentioned quiet a bit in the bible, maybe wine wasnt actually wine and it was an aya brew of some sort? If so those dudes would have been trippin all the time along with a great deal of the population in their time.

Reminds me of the question about Aboriginals in Australia, because the plants are available and dreamtime stories and paintings bear resemblance to the visions induced by an aya brew they must have used such substances to acheive this.

Bit far fetched IMO

[ThunderIdeal]

TBH all of the sarcasm makes it hard to be sure what you're saying, but i get the gist.

different viewpoints are healthy, still, i'm surprised. i could point you to several less-than-esoteric hints but why bother, most of them have probably been posted here. i'm not sure the bible says much, but it's not too different from other religions so IMO the same applies or the writers just took their inspiration from a different religion that was written by trippers.

[Francois le Danque]

saying the bible was written under intoxication isnt bagging christianity (im sure the fuckwit fundies think it is though), i see it as an explanation. if not then the bible makes no sense at all to me, to think in our existence there was actually a big flood that killed everything except noah and friends? dont think so. if this is some sort of psychedelic symbolism, it makes a lot more sense to me.

also "where is syrian rue located?"...in syria!

[Jesus On Peyote]

Too bad this information will all be "athist propagandists" to every preacher round the world.

Nab- That sounds like one crazy ass drink.

Thunder, lol sorry, there wasent much sarcasm in that last post, but ill try improve my writing style.

[ThunderIdeal]

i was talking about P Diddy. it seems that you and i are in general agreeance.

[chilli]

I remember when I was stoner studying the Hebrew/Christian scriptures being tripped out by this:

Sula Benet (also known as Sara Benetowa; 1903—1982) was a Polish anthropologist of the 20th century who studied Polish and Judaic customs and traditions.

Born in Poland, Benet was fascinated with peasant culture of Poland since her early youth. This interest eventually led her to enroll as a student of literature and philosophy in the Faculty of Humanities in the University of Warsaw but graduated with a degree in anthropology. Upon receiving her degree in 1935, she attended graduate school at Columbia University, where she received her doctorate in 1944.

Benet's writings have gained modern notability for her interpretations of the herb known as kaneh-bosm or kneh-bosm mentioned in the Old Testament and how it may relate to religious use of cannabis. Kaneh-bosm was mentioned in the Old Testament as part of the holy anointing oil used in the temple and has historically been interpreted as calamus. Through comparative etymology and analysis of ancient texts, Benet asserts that the word kaneh-bosm actually refers to cannabis and was used in ancient Jewish religious rites, possible as an intoxicant. Pro-cannabis advocates cite Benet's work as an example that cannabis use has a long culturally important history, and that the criminalization and demonization of cannabis is a recent invention. While Benet's conclusion regarding the psychoactive use of cannabis is not universally accepted among Jewish scholars, there is general agreement that cannabis is used in talmudic sources to refer to hemp fibers, as hemp was a vital commodity before linen replaced it. [1]

According to Benet's research, cannabis appears in ancient Hebrew texts spelled with the Hebrew letters: “Kuph, Nun, Hé ­ Bet, Shin, Mem,” translated into western alphabetic forms as ¹aneh-bosm, kaneh-bosm or kineboisin. The book of Exodus records the event of Moses receiving the instructions for making and distributing the hemp enriched holy oil, in the most auspicious tones.

Then the Lord said to Moses, "Take the following fine spices: 500 shekels of liquid myrrh, half as much of fragrant cinnamon, 250 shekels of qaneh-bosm, 500 shekels of cassia--all according to the sanctuary shekel--and a hind of olive oil. Make these into a sacred anointing oil” (Exodus 30: 22-33).

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sula_Benet

[XipeTotec]

also "where is syrian rue located?"...in syria!

good point

Edited March 5, 2008 by XipeTotec

[The Dude]

firstly, who the fuck knows about the historical Jesus... as far as I'm concerned he is a mushroom, as are priests dressed in red and white garb or santa clause and the gifts that he brings, the christmas tree is a symbol of the serpentine/dna/spiral that also represents the cadeuceus or drug knowledge or gnosis (as given by the serpent tempting eve with the apple).. or the fundamental expression of the kundalini spirit within matter as dna, that which spontaneously created life out of dead matter, like the gnostic genesis (Nag Hamandi/Dead Sea Scrolls??), the female spirit, gave the masculine body life.

Xmas Trees may well also represent the pine tree under which amanitas grow and the decorations are the "apples" or the forbidden fruit. Under pine trees grow amanita mushrooms (symbiotic relationship) under the Xmas Tree lay presents. The symbiosis is also, i feel the predominant message in many mushroom experiences, as a goal for our survival here on the planet, we must reconnect to the tree of knowledge thru entheogenic experiences so that we may find the tree of life and live everlasting, take this as literal, or as an enlightening experience of our true being.. either way it's very real.... trust me hehe

Fly Agarics predominate European Xmas cards with not very subtle gnomes winking for some strange hilarious reason. Krishna and Vishnu and probably more Hindu deities are blue in coloration, much like the staining flesh of the holy mushroom that grows out of the holy shit of their holy cows. Maybe we're connecting too many dots in our drug induced psychosis or maybe the interconnecting over-arching (arch angel) presence of this holy loving being that is both you and yet 'other' somehow infused this esoteric symbolism in ALL of our religions... Indeed all Experience if we look for that connection. It's not all drug related, but the whole idea of God sending his only begotten sun to die... so that we may eat his flesh and drink his blood sounds quite familiar to Middle American myths of the flesh of the gods being a mushroom. Jesus is god made flesh.. that we eat.. (ffs no duh!!! still don't get it, it's quite a cool 'in joke' and maybe explaining it is ruining the fun of the discovery, but seeing as the discussion is all up there now, and there's docos on the stuff - some of the symbolic associations seem a bit loose and I suppose that's the point, look hard enough and everything is everything, although some interpretations I disagree with.. cuz i know the TRUTH they don't haha! -talk bout sarcasm, there's some for ya, how the fuck would I know really?)

The Burning Bush that is on fire yet is not consumed by it, is one funky archetypal image, and definitely a symbol of entheogenic experience, the tree of knowledge, It may also be the aforementioned Acacia Elephantorrhiza with it's masses of yellow fragrant mimosa-like pale yellow flowers that appear as a bush on fire yet not consumed by it? so symbol of an experience or of the way of attaining it, or a synthesis of both? why not?

Christ - Anointed .. having been baptised in the holy waters, having traversed the ocean of hyperspace .. it is a state of consciousness, once baptised, you can then take holy communion and confess your sins to the only authority that counts.. yourself The Self and then receive atonement.... After being baptised or Christened or Anointed.. all consisting of a blessing with holy water or oil. The experience stays with you, and the knowledge permeates all matter and the 'other' can be in dialogue with you all the more as your insane delusions have you believe everything is telling you something about yourself... Writing this much is telling me something... That dude was insane when he suggested I be a priest, I'd give everyone mushrooms without being too subtle about it.

Atonement Christianity The reconciliation of God and humans brought about by the redemptive life and death of Jesus.

the life and death of jesus being the life and death of the mushroom as we consume it. Jesus (shrooms) was sent down to this earth to die, for us, so that god may forgive our sins -when we eat em and have our one on one with the big guy... ourself... SELF I SAY!!.. stop thinking its only you, well it is and we're all in you're head maaaaan.

Christ Consciousness or that of being anointed by the holy oil, is simply a connection to god.

Symbology is all multifaceted so although these deities represent gods presence on earth or entheogenic experiences, they also represent other higher states of being, astrological metaphors, sun worship and the giver of light or indeed any higher knowledge bestowed upon us, The WORD of god that manifests all reality, and above all the infintiely interconnected everlasting being of pure love and altruism ... that is everything.

Whenever anything good happens PRAISE jesus, when its bad it's the devil, jing/jang, partners in crime don't forget that. IN A dualistic system they are jing jang, in a monistic system, satan does not exist as a seperate being from god/jesus, it is merely the shadow of the light, it's a polarity they are the same thing, one continuum. In other beliefs Satan is praised in place of jesus as it is a figure that has gone from seeing the dark to then going to the light, it is the one holistic being that has gone full circle and as such is beyond good and evil and knows of both.

It's the fucking Matrix man, a program, the logos.. pure information. beyond good and evil, everything is everything... something like that.

...

Maybe.

don't take my word for it just take the motherfucking red pill!!!!

[PS] I hope that makes enough sense, too stoned and too early in the morning for me to ramble concisely.

[indigo264nm]

Moses was probably also on drugs when he saw the "burning bush", suggested Shanon, who said he himself has dabbled with such substances.

It's more than likely that he synthesised 2cb in the desert and proceeded to overdose on it - that stuff always makes people think everything is on fire when they've taken too much. Who can blame him for such an error??? Moses only possessed scales that went down to 0.1 as he didn't feel much need to have anything better, possibly due to the fact that he only dealt weed in weights above half oz's.

And did you know that the strain of weed Panama Red doesn't refer to the country Panama at all??? It instead refers to the strain of cannabis that Moses harvested from the shores of the Red Sea before he parted it - that guy smuggled 2lb of the Pharaoh's finest from one shore to the other.

What a guy.

[nabraxas]

Writing in the first century BC the historian Diodorus Siculus reckons that the ancient Egyptians used cannabis as a medicine to relieve sorrow and bad humor.

Seeing as the Israelites were in close contact w/& were hugely influenced by the Egyptians they undoubtedly knew ov cannabis's effects.