Cactus shake

[TheFriendlyPlanter]

I read on the INTERNET once about a person who had used a blender to puree his TBM and Peyote before consumption (in a faraway land where legal) He consumed it straight out of the blender, raw with no further extraction/ concentration etc.

It seems like a fitting method for TBM as the volume of mush to be consumed would be minimal (compared with a much larger sanpedro species). I was wondering (1.) if this method would possibly result in slightly stronger effects as none would be lost (from an extraction process).

If indeed this method was slightly more potent, (2.) how much more potent might it be. (eg 1%, 5%, 10%???)

I was also wondering (3.) if the effects would take slightly longer to begin and/or end if this method was employed.

Surely this would have implications for the initial dosage taken, and the time between sips on the 'cactus shake'.

I have heard conflicting reports and nothing bugs me more than conflicting reports! I need someone to consult the cacti-gods for me. Thank you in advance , -MS

[M S Smith]

From one MS to the other I cannot fathom why anyone would puree any cactus when the constituents within the plant are fully water soluable. Regarding Trichocereus I can not find any account whatsoever in the traditional literature that it was consummed by any other means than a tea. Lophophora also has traditional usage as a tea even though this plant is also often eaten. From my observations of others' attempts to puree cactus the only thing it increases by any percentage is effort needed to process, this while not causing any great deal more alkaloids to be extracted, at least not more than can be gotten by using just a tad more plant material when making a tea. I've also come to think that consumming anything more than a slightly thickish tea increases nausea and stomach disconfort (cramps).

~Michael~

[xerimyco]

From one MS to the other I cannot fathom why anyone would puree any cactus when the constituents within the plant are fully water soluable. Regarding Trichocereus I can not find any account whatsoever in the traditional literature that it was consummed by any other means than a tea. Lophophora also has traditional usage as a tea even though this plant is also often eaten. From my observations of others' attempts to puree cactus the only thing it increases by any percentage is effort needed to process, this while not causing any great deal more alkaloids to be extracted, at least not more than can be gotten by using just a tad more plant material when making a tea. I've also come to think that consumming anything more than a slightly thickish tea increases nausea and stomach disconfort (cramps).

~Michael~

Amen to that! Eating cactus puree is not fun (for most anyway), and will not get you where you want to go any better than tea. Just chop it up, boil and strain. De-spining, coring, peeling etc. just add work to the process. They don't hurt, but I don't think it makes any improvement over just chopping the whole stem. Blending is not only more work, but I think it actually messes things up. If you just cut it up, it is very easy to strain. Blended, you end up with the proverbial "elephant snot" mess that is a chore to strain and filter. It also seems to me that it doesn't get more of what you want out of the cactus (maybe less if you lose some trying to strain/filter it), but does get more of what you don't want.

Folks also tend to go overboard on the boiling. You don't need to boil for hours and hours, days, etc. Pressure cookers are a waste of effort too. Boiling for an hour, straining, and reboiling the pulp for another hour will get virtually all of what you want. Long boiling and pressure cooking don't hurt, but are wasted work in my opinion. Long boiling also increases the chance of boiling to dryness and burning, which will ruin your project. One thing that is slightly beneficial is adding a little acid to the boil water, especially if the water is high pH to begin with. Two grams of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) per gallon of water is enough. It is non-toxic, adds almost zero effort, and I believe it aids in the extraction in a small, but significant way. If you use too much though, you could get the runs (anybody whose taken over five grams of vitamin C are probalbly familiar with this effect).

My answers to your above questions:

1) No. Especially if you blow chunks trying to choke down the "shake".

2) Might actually be less than if you make tea.

3) Takes longer, might last longer too, though.

I vote tea, made simply.

[incognito]

mate its fucking gross, do at ur own peril, u will find that if u will be chewing and eating it anyway. imagine trying to consume congealed ,lumpy elephant snot, if u will, because that is the experience u will have if its of any sort of volume, even a little u will still hafta chew. trust me.

best to make a watery tea, then reduce to a skullable amount then think happy thoughts and skull.

blending first can help increase surface area of the cell walls exposed to the slightly acidic water u will extract with, and i have done many times (in equador) with great results. but the beststuffiveseen and what id imagine to be the most palatable' if u can use that word withcactus teas, has been done with know acid whatsover, justa much longer process of h20 extraction. a plethora of cactus tea prep teks out there, use the search engine here or check places such as erowid, if u cant find any info elsewhere pm me..oh fuk it heres what i do..

(back in good ol' equador)

notch spines out of cactus with needle-nose-pliers.

take wood core out

chop cactus intofine pieces and freeze overnight.

put into a pc full of water with a littleapple cider vinegar (justa little ,30mls for say a 40cm piece of cactus)

pc for 4 hrs on as high a temp as u can get away with, i just keep turning it down when the pc starts hissing, u must watch the pc or be near at all times doing this i think,im paranoid of the fuker blowing up!!)

strain acidic water into a large pot, and start reducing.

fill pc up again with water (leave the cactus pulp in off course) and addanother dash of ACV.

pc agin for 4 hrsand repeat the starining reducing proceess.

one more time and i believe ive sucked all the goodies im gonna get out of it.

now u should have all the liquid in z reducing pot. ucan fine strain the liquid now or waittill everythings reduced to a skullable amount.

i find it much easier to skull chilled than still warm. u MUST get into positive thinking now! u HAVE an iron stomach! this is gonna taste like kiwi-fruit juice! its all mind over matter.

down the hatch, and enjoy this most powerful healing herb that i knowof.

all the above is totally illegal to do in australia, due to our misinformed law-makers, who would rather blokes beat their wives senseless on alcohol and fill emergency rooms on a daily basis. or smoke urself to cancer and everyone else around you.

make this tea in a country that is alot more open-minded to alternative healing medicines than the artificial toxic shit that our one pushes down our throats.

to quote hicks- 'dont u think that making something that grows naturally illegal,,,kinda unnatural?'

[-YT-]

"Pressure cookers are a waste of effort too"

Cmon they arent that bad except for the sound and fear of constant explosions lol they can greatly reduce cooking times from say one hour to 15-20mins a cook say multiply times four and the extract can be done in an hour, all that is left is too reduce tea to managable size, or theres always resin and or dry resin powder all which have had numerous posts about.

Teas are supposed to be good for ya tho with all those antibiotics n such

[xerimyco]

... i have done many times (in equador)...

Cool! Did you live there? Still know people who could send cuts? Got any photos of the material?

... they can greatly reduce cooking times from say one hour to 15-20mins a cook say multiply times four and the extract can be done in an hour...

If your pressure cooker is small enough to take to the sink and run water on it, and you are cool with carrying a cooker that's still pressurized, this is true. If not, it can take a lot longer. My big cooker takes more than 20 minutes to cool sufficiently to depressurize so I can open it. I hope everyone who thinks about using pressure cookers READS AND FOLLOWS THE MANUFACTURERS DIRECTIONS! They almost never blow up anymore, but the result of opening a pressurized cooker can be almost as bad. Superheated cactus mush volcano! Ballistic lids!

I know a lot of the fun of a hobby can be in the procedure, "it's the journey, not the destination", and that thinking about and devising elaborate techniques can be very good brain exercise. There is nothing wrong with putting a lot of effort into doing special projects like this. Do whatever turns you on. It's fun! When it comes down to it though, it is hard to improve on the product you get out of a simple chop and boil.

[-YT-]

If your pressure cooker is small enough to take to the sink and run water on it, and you are cool with carrying a cooker that's still pressurized, this is true. If not, it can take a lot longer. My big cooker takes more than 20 minutes to cool sufficiently to depressurize so I can open it. I hope everyone who thinks about using pressure cookers READS AND FOLLOWS THE MANUFACTURERS DIRECTIONS! They almost never blow up anymore, but the result of opening a pressurized cooker can be almost as bad. Superheated cactus mush volcano! Ballistic lids!

Yes very true i think i forgot to take into consideration the cool down and to depressurize, a big plastic tub of room temp water works ok once it has cooled down a bit. Almost never blow up anymore! i feel very reassured now heheh

[robots]

hello,

make sure you take you're time, maybe boil and collect one day and then reduce the next day

dont think everything done in 2-3 hrs,

get to a situation where you extract for 3-4 doses at a time, makes things so much easier and enjoyable,

benjahman got excellent tech on tea and then flour which works extremely well,

thankyou

robots

[AndyAmine.]

Depending on what your PC is made from, I would be very careful running COLD water onto it. room temp maybe ok but cold could cause you some major problems.

As for explosions, as long as you emergancy pressure release valve is in good condition along wiht the other valves ands seals, you should be fine other than having a gizer of boiling snot,.

Im pretty sure it says it is possible in the inctructions from my Aluminium one.

[TheFriendlyPlanter]

Thanks everyone. I can't see how a 30 second blend and scull would be more work than a 3+ hour boil, but cramps don't sound like FUN, so it seems the cacti shake is not the best option, even for TBM. The simpler the method the better IMO as long as it works! The less pots and pans to clean the better too! Cheers!

Edited December 11, 2007 by mountain sage

[Conan Troutman]

Just on the comment of no natives eating 'whole' cactus, theyre is a National Geographic documentary that show huichol eating freshly picked peyote like cookies, looked like theyd done it more than once...or you talkin directly in regard to trich brews

[AndyAmine.]

Cactus shake followed by a good dose of Digestive Enzymes may be a way to cut down on bloating?

I remeber someone saying they did it with mushrooms and it helped them?

I have started to take these since getting get some digestive problems and they help no end.

I also take some pre digestives made from Fennel, Gentain, Ginger and some other stuff which also makes a huge difference.

[Monk]

The green slime has been likened to 'alien cum' by certain folks. Yuck! Mmm, let's dring 12 oz. or more of chunky, bitter snot. As Andy noted any digestive enzymes with cellulase, hemicellulase, xylanase, arabinase etc. help greatly with discomfort when consuming fresh or dried plant materials in quantity. Incidentally, cactus mucilage is largely composed of hemicellulose, xylose, arabinose etc.

[incognito]

re:-'blend and skull cant be harder work'- go for it buddy!!!! good luck with the skull bit!!

its not the hardwork thing man its the making the gear enter ur body alot quicker and smoothly, but i guess u just hafta experience elephant snot urself.

bon voyage

[Osprey]

I found (while in good old ecuador)that stuffing an entire chocolate bar in your mouth,chewing it up without swallowing it which completely coats your taste buds,gives you a much better chance of getting that foul shit down.

going for a walk during onset really helps me with initial nausea because it takes my mind off it.

Once it kicks in bigtime...no nausea at all..........Walking with the Gods

No one ever said magic was easy.

[gerbil]

I'm curious as to how many people don't try and mask the taste and also deliberately utilise different preparations for different purposes i.e. physical medicine.

Things seem to get very caught in the entheobotanic and we seem to forget the rest of the properties of the plant which through splitting hairs I s'pose is ethnobotanic.

I think we often miss the point entirely (talking broadly here not just cactus) with entheobotanic plants. All relative I suppose. On wednesday we shamanise, On saturday we heal.

[incognito]

i dont get it gerbs.?

[chilli]

Thanks everyone. I can't see how a 30 second blend and scull would be more work than a 3+ hour boil, but cramps don't sound like FUN, so it seems the cacti shake is not the best option, even for TBM. The simpler the method the better IMO as long as it works! The less pots and pans to clean the better too! Cheers!

I guess you will know for sure when you have tried both.

[TheFriendlyPlanter]

I guess you will know for sure when you have tried both.

Wash up the Pots and Pans??? NEVER!!!

[chilli]

Wash up the Pots and Pans??? NEVER!!!

Hehe, you do realize all that is involved is rinsing out a pot or two, there is not much scrubbing involved... or, wait... are you an arts student?

[robots]

I found (while in good old ecuador)that stuffing an entire chocolate bar in your mouth,chewing it up without swallowing it which completely coats your taste buds,gives you a much better chance of getting that foul shit down.

going for a walk during onset really helps me with initial nausea because it takes my mind off it.

Once it kicks in bigtime...no nausea at all..........Walking with the Gods

No one ever said magic was easy.

hello,

great technique, i normally nibble on a carrot but on trying the chocolate its pretty good, the taste disappears

immediately, good one

thankyou

robots

[strangebrew]

I found (while in good old ecuador)that stuffing an entire chocolate bar in your mouth,chewing it up without swallowing it which completely coats your taste buds,gives you a much better chance of getting that foul shit down.

Yeah I'm sold. Way to go Osprey, this method fookin' rules noble mon! You don't even need an entire chocolate bar, just a couple of pieces.

[TheFriendlyPlanter]

Hmmm, I've (heard) of hash cookies, how 'bout San Pedro brownies! Sounds tasty!

[incognito]

on my tours of sth america, i found resin balls to be a TOTALLY ineffective way of dosing on sacred cacti.

i rekon they pass straight through u without a chance to dissolve and be absorbed.

i think a basic tea is the best and much less hassle.

cacati cookies could be a possibility with such high yielders such as penis cacti?!

[reshroomED]

Once upon a time, when I did such silly things, I always blended a whole cutting bar the skin/spines, and the skin was scraped with a spoon until transluscent. Then pressure-cooked to produce your average bowl of green snot. Very daunting shit. Eventually a large batch was frozen and thawed several times and, when thawed, the snot was gone!!

Clear 'tea' over solids on bottom of vessel.

No difference assay-wise, bar the lack of having to drink elephent snot.

ed