Spicey herbal extract blend

[cisumevil]

Dont buy it if you think you are at risk, it's that simple ;)

[tryptamine]

I agree. Most people buying these blends are willing to take the risk. These chemicals are likely alot safer than a lot of plant derived ingredients anyway.

[mu!]

Most people buying these blends are willing to take the risk.

Wat do you base this assumption on? evidence maybe?

These chemicals are likely alot safer than a lot of plant derived ingredients anyway.

again, how is this so?

[apothecary]

Yeah I'd really like to understand why you think a smoking mix with unlisted, unresearched and masked compounds is going to be safer than a smoking mix with disclosed ingredients?

[tryptamine]

Yeah I'd really like to understand why you think a smoking mix with unlisted, unresearched and masked compounds is going to be safer than a smoking mix with disclosed ingredients?

We have been through this many times over. Nearly every smoking blend on the market either lists no ingredients or lists bogus or at least decoy or misleading ingredients. Even those fake buds with no psychoactive effect do this.

If you are that worried you should avoid ALL these type of products and instead make your own.

Many synthetic Cannabinoids have been somewhat researched and appear quite safe, at least in comparison to some natural smokables like Tropanes or Nutmeg oil.

Of course in a perfect, prohibition free world . . .

[apothecary]

How exactly does acknowledging the entire commercial market engages in nondisclosure make it safer? Going in circles...

I'd rather smoke tropanes or nutmeg oil than "spicey herbal extract blend", because for both I know I can glean some measure of the possible effects and risks from research into centuries old traditional usage methodologies and contemporary ethnobotanical work which usually includes detailed knowledge of constituents, chemistry, scientific research and first hand reports?

[tryptamine]

I'd rather smoke tropanes or nutmeg oil than "spicey herbal extract blend", because for both I know I can glean some measure of the possible effects and risks from research into centuries old traditional usage methodologies and contemporary ethnobotanical work which usually includes detailed knowledge of constituents, chemistry, scientific research and first hand reports?

To each their own I guess. I enjoy smoking this blend and would be sad to see it banned. I agree its not ideal that vendors do not list all ingredients, but neither do street drug dealers.

In the current prohibitionist climate anything that works is banned. Just look at Salvia, Kratom, Khat, Ephedra . . .

I hate to say it, but incense with unlisted ingredients will be the future of commercial legal highs, if you don,t like it then overthrow the goverment;)

Edited April 21, 2008 by tryptamine

[DayLight]

that's a bit far fetched. id prefer to overthrow the future of commercial legal highs.

if you cannot take the time to create your own blend, and learn how to do it right, do you really need it? i can make a blend just as effective as spice using almost 100% raw herbs. and i know what it contains.

i do avoid all these products and make my own(actually not to much...i just smoke the real deal and dont whine and moan about how its illegal. ;)), but that does not mean i am not concerned for the people who buy these blends and dont know what they are getting themselves into.

lets face it, people today are stupid. and its not their fault. they are just not there yet. they will get there, eventually to the place where you lie and eventually into formlessness, but that is just where they are at the moment. so in many people's stupidity they will buy this blend, and maybe, one person will have an allergic reaction, drug interaction, prosecution under the analogue act, etc. i am not saying it should be banned. i believe in a free market and if you want to sell some random ass blend with no formal ingredient list, go for it. but i will do my damnedest to let people know what they are buying, trying to protect those that might not be bright enough to think about what they are buying. but in no way do i support controlling what is bought/sold.

and that does not change the fact that people(including tosten, who has not responded to me post yet...) are protecting a secret for monetary gain, reputation and honor, and in doing so possibly endangering the health and safety of others.

[Guest Øskorei]

if you cannot take the time to create your own blend, and learn how to do it right, do you really need it? i can make a blend just as effective as spice using almost 100% raw herbs. and i know what it contains.

Cool, so if you're OK with the notion of disclosure, would you mind sharing some of your blend/mix ingredients in their entirety, so some of us can enjoy also ?

[tryptamine]

Coca Cola contains unlisted ingredients. What if someone has an allergy to these?

In some countries these may be technically illegal as Cocaine analogues.

Even supermarket goods such as oranges, cheese and chocolate contain analogues illegal in many countries.

Things like Apsartane are listed sweetener XXX and the f$#kin products marketed as a healthier alternative to the sugared version.

Nothing is what it seems, let the buyer beware!

[DayLight]

Cool, so if you're OK with the notion of disclosure, would you mind sharing some of your blend/mix ingredients in their entirety, so some of us can enjoy also ?

my favorite(though it is not a cannabis replacement or similar in any way) is a mixture of (and i know i said mostly raw herbs but this one has a bit more extracts) pedicularis spp. extract, blue lotus extract, and salvia nemorosa leaf. i found this blend to give more pleasureable effects than spice gold while having about the same(perhaps slightly less) potency by weight.

next is a blend which gives slightly similar effect but is a little milder, and this is 100% raw herbs. 1 part salvia spathacea, 1 part salvia apiana, 1 part salvia leucophylla. most of the psychoactivity comes from spath. thujone in the white sage and camphor and related compounds in the purple sage balance out the sedation and clear the head a wee bit. also they add a great flavor.

mixing kanna and blue lotus is a score, but it really comes to life adding kava(eaten, so not exactly a smoke blend).

sorry, none of the blends ive made replicate ganja at all because im a ganja smoker so theres no reason to replicate.

[Guest Øskorei]

Nice. Although I suspected you were going to mention Pedicularis as soon as I posted earlier, then noticed you are in the US. I've read many reports that suggest positive results from the p.densiflora on overseas sites, but sadly I cannot locate any here in Australia, despite enquiring with several herb vendors here. Some old threads indicate that it may be prohibited for importation either as a herb, plant or seed. This is on my wish list, so if anyone can set me up with 20 grams or so, I'd be very grateful.

Agreed on the kanna & blue waterlilly, it's a great smoke. I'll give it a go next time I mix up some kava !

A couple of others that I can report on with personal experience are:

Blue Lotus, Califonia poppy, Catnip & Wild lettuce (laid this onto a mate last weekend too, and he also loved the chilled-out effects.

Damiana, L. sibiricus & Wormwood (although I wonder if the sibiricus was necessary, I think the effect was from the other two)

[rollmop]

Oskorei if you are able to locate Pedicularis here in Aust would you kindly pass on some seeds? I am also looking for S. Apiana here in Australia if you know of a supplier?

[DayLight]

there is no wild pedicularis spp in aus? it is very widespread and there are many species over here.

im sure if you replaced the pedicularis with cannabis in the above blend it would be even better and thus do-able for all you silly aussies.

[Torsten]

I amnot potecting the secret that the whole spice thing is bogus, but the way I found out about it would cause myself and other people a lot of problems and I am not willing to do that to myself or others.

anyway, I am not the only one who knows and this has been discussed quite a lot online, but it seems no one really cares and is happy to just keep puffing it. Fine by me as long as the info to be cautious is out there.

What difference does it make to you whether i tell every detail of how I know or whether I just warn to be cautious because I have information that spice is not natural? Other than your curiosity that is.

The secret is out - and being ignored.

[DayLight]

As I stated, the difference it makes to me is for the safety of others. But if it would cause people that much trouble if you said more, than i trust that you are using good judgment in assesing the situation, you're to be smart guy who's been around awhile. i was just questioning the motives as i saw it from the limited info given.

[Torsten]

I hate to say it, but incense with unlisted ingredients will be the future of commercial legal highs

Spot on! That's exactly the way things are going and to be honest we have already made provisions for this as we think this might happen quite soon in some states.

The other comment about the synthetic cannabinoid is that I was offered the same substance some eyars ago. There was some research available on it and it listed a particular irreversible side effect in rare cases. It was enough to turn me off utilising it. Up to that point I had considered marketing it overseas [analogs laws prevented any australian sales of it].

Anyway, I would feel guilty about not mentioning this product deception, especially because it could cause legal problems for importers, users etc.. As far as health effects in concerned I think the best advice is to make your own mixes if you really want to know what's in the products.

[NorthernComfort]

Interesting that they use Canavalia......

Any idea what part of the plant is used? I've grown this vine in the past and could never get it to flower.......the leaves were smoked(tasty!) with little effects noticed.

Think I still have some of the large buckeye-like seeds laying about........bay beans they are called, if I recall properly...

[Airbender]

im sure if you replaced the pedicularis with cannabis in the above blend it would be even better and thus do-able for all you silly aussies

yeah i'm sure cannabis would be cheaper than spice but finding an online vendor who takes credit card and express posts it is a friggin' nightmare! ha ha

[Aopocetx]

I have personally smoked a large amount of Spice and passed a drug test two days later. There are no synthetic cannabinoids. That's poppycock.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Aopocetx

[tryptamine]

I have personally smoked a large amount of Spice and passed a drug test two days later. There are no synthetic cannabinoids. That's poppycock.

Drug tests look for metabolites of THC. Other Cannabinoids and / or Poppycock would produce different metabolites;)

[PhantomTurkey]

The other comment about the synthetic cannabinoid is that I was offered the same substance some eyars ago. There was some research available on it and it listed a particular irreversible side effect in rare cases. It was enough to turn me off utilising it. Up to that point I had considered marketing it overseas [analogs laws prevented any australian sales of it].

Would you mind sharing your findings re the irreversible side effect please? What is the side effect?

It would be beneficial for the info to be out in the open. I tried googling it but found nothing.

Thanks.

[Conan Troutman]

Would you mind sharing your findings re the irreversible side effect please? What is the side effect?

It would be beneficial for the info to be out in the open. I tried googling it but found nothing.

Thanks.

we know its not one of the common synthetic cannabinoids....can you please just fill us in Torsten??

[Re-Grifter]

Check out the post from "spicescam"......could be for real?

http://www.entheogen.com/forum/showthread....;highlight=gcms

Post made by anonymous proxy, don't bother ...

Ok, Mr Hunt...

[Airbender]

the active suggested in that post seems to need refrigeration at -20 to remain "fresh"

good read though! looks like spice diamond (next step up from gold?) may one day hit the streets here if the whole spice thing doesn't get outlawed first. thats exciting and a little scary at the same time...but aren't those two responses governed by the same brain chemical...now i'm waffling

i personally prefer an enigma in a riddle wrapped up in a spicey herbal mystery to knowing for sure that the active is a chemical i have NO HOPE of recreating in my $2 dollar-shop home laboratory set up. soon as someone says ah ha it's substance D! someone else says oh cool now we can totally ban that chemical. so calling for an outing of spice's secret ingredient may in fact add it to the list of "stuff thats so much fun we must lock it up in the naughty naughty box for the good of the community"

i don't think i'm sticking my head in the sand but i want them to let spice be spice.

i've heard alcohol and tobacco can have some pretty nasty side effects in a small percentage of cases too.

but this stuff is in a bit of a different league.