Piracetam to become s4 in may

[Thelema]

Hi, this decision was made in October 2006; there's no record of reasons.

Why? Because it harmonizes with NZ through the trans-tasman agreement.

The trouble with this is that the original NZ decision to schedule piracetam was because

"it was primae facie a drug that ought to be prescription and was new."

New?

Ought to be prescription? is this the same drug one prominent researcher declared "safe as salt"?

For some reason the NDPSC seems to think that the trans-tasman agreement obviates the need for them to consider the headings under s52E of the TG Act when considering scheduling a substance.

In a further twist, post-meeting submissions were called for from the public "addressing the points in 52E" when commenting on the scheduling. Ummm NDPSC guys, I think you've got something a bit back-to-front here...52E was designed to act as a mechanism to mandatorily consult with before scheduling, not as a guide to how people should frame their objections to your arbitrary decisions.

[Torsten]

was this mentioned in a post meeting gazette? I must have missed it.

these guys do whatever the fuck they want. a law onto themselves. let's hope they get so corrupted by their own unchecked power that they end up imploding in some big scandal

[Μορφέας]

MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS MOTHER F***ERS

[Green Osiris]

a law onto themselves. let's hope they get so corrupted by their own unchecked power that they end up imploding in some big scandal

[Jesus On Peyote]

Before this thread iv never heard of piacetam, so i did a search and read on wiki that its pretty much a normal medicine with more beneficial stuff then negitive.

I also saw some reports on erowid and all i can think is wtf are they banning it for? surely they can spend their time and our money banning shit that actually kill people,Alcohol and tobacco comes to mind...

God damn capitalism and the retards that run its dumb ass laws.

Ban it all,or legalise it all is my opinion. (cept Ice and Heroin) we could have opium instead of H and Coca\Aine for ice. (ice is just to harmfull and useless.

[nabraxas]

Ban it all,or legalise it all is my opinion. (cept Ice and Heroin)

that's abit hypocritical don't you think?

just like the legislators you are bringing your own preconceptions to the party.

[t st tantra]

so will it be available on prescription?

what needs to happen 4 this?

t,prob fixed, as you suggested,thanx

t s t .

[Jesus On Peyote]

Yea it is a little hypocritical lol, but the way i figure it is that opium natures alternitive to H, and Ice, well from what i can see *most* people i know that use or have used it have gone downhill from when they wernt and hasent got much of a benificial side to it other then gettin high for the sake of getting high.

There needs to be some restrictions but for Piracetam i see no reason for it to be banned.

[ballzac]

Actually, before Heroin was banned in Australia there were few deaths...since it was invented. There was no deaths in 1953 or the preceding couple of years. Today we just accept that hundreds of people will die from it, and that is used as justification for its prohibition

Very few people were even addicted to it, and parents quite happily gave it to their children when they had a cough. It was in many pain killers, and is a lot safer than paracetamol, and less damaging than ibuprofen or aspirin. Yes, John Howard's mummy probably have him Heroin at some stage when he was a kid.

Prohibition has changed things, and Heroin would probably be more dangerous legal now than before it was first banned. But the question one must ask oneself is, "Does prohibition reduce the dangers or increase them?"

The same goes for ice. It is freely available when illegal. So how is prohibition saving lives?

[Jesus On Peyote]

Good points, Ballzac but how avalible was it back in the 50s? OTC, precription,streets? and how many people would have known (used recreationally) about it in the same way people can get information about substances these days?

If anything is regulated then usually its safer for the consumer coz of all the impurities profit and such.

For heroin as a medication,im sure it would and still could have its place in society but only as medication,youll have your abusers im sure but ittle be clean at least, so you got me there lol.

For H tho all i can say about it is what iv seen from people that use it, and a good percentage of them would have been better off not on it (heavy users), or at least if there was a control system of some sort. but still ild prefare opium over H.

An as for ice,i donno i just dont like it.it offers very little. I cant see many medical uses for it and the recreatinal side of it i dont think its worth the problems to society,its just to addictive for most people (just my opinion).

If i where Prime minister tho the way ild combat ice is the Asian policy, you sell you die, or at least get locked up and tought a lesson 2 stikes and ur out kinda thing.first u get the warning an a few years in the slammer and if people still want to sell it then its their problem, as for the users once the supply slows then so will they. apart from that Everything should be legal.

[ballzac]

In answer to your question JOP, Heroin was unscheduled in Australia until 1953, meaning that you could legally buy it OTC. As you say, the awareness of the drug now would mean more problems with it than back then, but I also think there would be few deaths annually if Heroin were legal NOW. I think people would find it easier to hold down jobs and avoid crime, would suffer less illness from impurities, and would probably find it easier to wean themselves off the substance if it were freely available.

You sell, you die? Pretty harsh don't you think?

It's very easy to dictate to others what they should do, and I find your response, as Nabraxas did, to be a little hypocritical. The damage a drug does to society correlates to its legal status. Alcohol causes many problems in our society, but look at what it did in the twenties in the USA when it was banned. People still drank, but it caused so much destruction as organised crime took hold and people died or went blind from impurities in spirits. The same thing happened from prohibition of Heroin, but because there was no Heroin problem to begin with, it took a long time (20 years or so) after the ban for it to become a problem. MDMA killed very few people while legal, and it still kills very few people. But it's legal status causes so many dodgy pills to be sold and all pills in Australia are sold at a ridiculously high price.

Ice...I don't see why it should follow any rule other than what all other drugs have followed. I don't see how prohibition makes it safer. It's widely available even though legal. And killing dealers? Why do dealers deserve to die? They are trying to make a living like everyone else. There may be some with more questionable morals than others, but you can't legislate for that. And do you think that these laws actually punish the big guns? They don't, its the gullible and the desperate that suffer due to those laws.

Actually, I hate to admit that it is psychedelics (in general) that are probably safer to ban. I'm sure that the prohibition of Salvia made it harder for most people to get. And the same goes for LSD and other drugs that are not addictive or excessively popular. There is no massive black market for these drugs and people will not usually resort to crime to get them. But the popular drugs, like ice, are a different story.

Really though, it is all about personal rights. I have never tried ice and I probably never will. But if I decide I want to, that is my 'God-given' right to make that choice.

[indigo264nm]

Any ideas what the prescription criteria would be??? As in for what problems would doctors think to warrant a prescription for...

[SaBReT00tH]

Does anyone know where one can buy Piracetam in Australia now, there seems to be a lot of bogus and international sites which come up when I try and find it on google, I'd like a secure, reliable, Australian site.

Edited February 5, 2007 by SaBReT00tH

[Μορφέας]

Does anyone know where one can buy Piracetam in Australia now?

http://www.ultimatephysique.com.au/Bulk-Nu...g-pr-16186.html

[SaBReT00tH]

Awesome, Thanks might give it a whirl!! $40 for 145 days dosage doesn't seem too bad. Maybe I should buy two ;)

Edited February 5, 2007 by SaBReT00tH

[Jesus On Peyote]

I recon the sell\die policy is more coz of i think of ice as a poison then a drug.

Would someone who sells cyanide pills, as say mdma or whatever deserve to live amungst his fellow men? i think not.

If a seller was to get cought ild say first time he gets educated about what hes doin and helped to find and hold a job AND severely warned about the risks of him gettin cought again selling. I doubt people would wanna become dealers for a little profit if they knew there life depended on it. but the main point is the goverment would need to help those addicted and forced into selling.

[Torsten]

I recon the sell\die policy is more coz of i think of ice as a poison then a drug.

Would someone who sells cyanide pills, as say mdma or whatever deserve to live amungst his fellow men? i think not.

If a seller was to get cought ild say first time he gets educated about what hes doin and helped to find and hold a job AND severely warned about the risks of him gettin cought again selling. I doubt people would wanna become dealers for a little profit if they knew there life depended on it. but the main point is the goverment would need to help those addicted and forced into selling.

but an ice dealer sells ice as ice, so he is not deceiving, and the buyer knows he is buying ice. That is not the same as someone selling cyanide as mdma. It is more like someone selling cyanide as cyanide, and surely there is nothing wrong with that [ethically].

I understand where you are coming from as I too think ice has no redeeming features and presents a real danger to society [especially our community], but if you and I start drawing such lines then we can't be surprised that the government feels they have the right to draw all sorts of lines as well.

personally I think ice is such a terrible drug that if there was some decent, honest education on it it would rather quickly lose it's cool and become uninteresting to many. The problem with ice is that there is little truthful non-hysteric information available, so most users have no idea what they are actually doing to themselves.

Also, there are many who take speed to stay awake rather than to get high. I used to take meth once or twice a month for several years as it was the only thing to keep me partying that third day. Never got hooked on it, never even considered it as a rush drug. I would have been very pissed if my dealer had been singled out for the death penalty. This is all a decade ago now for me and I certainly have no positive feelings towards that drug at all, but I do respect the right of choice other adults have and that is a right worth fighting for. You either accept being mollycoddled by government or you object to it. Taking ice is the user's responsibility, not the dealer's and not the government's. The government's role is to educate the potential users and it is failing dismally in it's duty.

[ballzac]

Ice would still be available under your policy JOP. There are always stupid/desperate people who can be manipulated into risking their lives, and the price of the product would go up, making a normal life, or rehabilitation, harder for the user.

JOP, you also grouped Heroin in with ice. I don't see really how Heroin can be considered a poison - apart from the fact that, like all drugs, it has a lethal dosage - as it is, at sub-lethal doses, relatively harmless. Also has had quite a history of therapeutic uses, although its therapeutic potential has been questioned by experts when compared to other opiates like morphine. I still think it may have a place in medicine, but really, any opiate is safer than the paracetamol, Aspirin, and ibuprofen that is freely available.

[Jesus On Peyote]

True, altho i ment the cyanide comment as in my view of ice as a poisen.

There aint much of a counter i can come up with for that argument T lol.Ok so ill scrap my sell/die policy but i do agree overwhelmingly about real education for ice and heroin.

ballzac, i did consider it a poisen b4 my reeducation from you so im willing to reconsider it, but at the state of it now (illigal n dirty) i would stick with my guns, however if it where legalised and made pure in pill format with the right system of dispersal i guess it could work as a legalised product.Same goes with meth.( but to my understanding 80%+ pure meth is ice, yes?)

I guess everything has its uses, i donno its a very complicated issue.

BTW does anyone know if the drugs policy in asia works? considering the population differance would it make a differance in oz?

(if you know what i mean)

[Torsten]

BTW does anyone know if the drugs policy in asia works? considering the population differance would it make a differance in oz?

(if you know what i mean)

Prohibition hasn't worked in any country. Not even death penalty. Just look at thailand, where ice is a bigger problem than just about any other country. The only country I have been to where zero tolerance appears to be working somewhat is singapore. But I don't think it is the policy that makes the difference. Rather, singaporeans seem to have no interest in drugs other than alcohol. Then again they have no interest in anything even remotely alternative, interesting or fun either. I guess it is easier to have a tough drug policy in a city/state of mindless drones.

[Avaricial]

Prohibition hasn't worked in any country. Not even death penalty. Just look at thailand, where ice is a bigger problem than just about any other country. The only country I have been to where zero tolerance appears to be working somewhat is singapore. But I don't think it is the policy that makes the difference. Rather, singaporeans seem to have no interest in drugs other than alcohol. Then again they have no interest in anything even remotely alternative, interesting or fun either. I guess it is easier to have a tough drug policy in a city/state of mindless drones.

I think its the law that caused such mindless drones actually, the penalty for consumption alone would be almost 2 years in 'rehab' which is just another word for jail.

There is a drug scene in singapore, but like black markets there, you can search your entire lifetime and never find one.

making the penalties so prohibitively terrible seems to "work" to a point, but basically it has only one government party (no matter what anyone else says) so the people never get to voice an opinion.

key phrase to describe singapore would be 'fit in or fuck off'.

Edited February 6, 2007 by deicide

[nabraxas]

key phrase to describe singapore would be 'fit in or fuck off'.

LOL...i agree, wasn't it Singapore where up until the 80's they would check all males entering the country for the length ov their hair. If it came below your collar you had to get it cut there & then or you were refused entry.

[folias]

Pericetam is one of the most remarkable smart drugs...its basically the orginal smart drug, which, as I recall, has no known side effects and is entirely beneficial for the brain and body.

For the TGA to ban this remarkable compound for NO KNOWN REASON is verging on criminal!

I was given three doses of it yesterday, in the morning 3.5g's, at lunch 1.5 g's and then @ 6pm 1.5g's... my recommendation, buy as much of this valuable compound as possible into the country... it has many, many remarkable properties and people I know say the effects of it can be quite miraculous...

Many research studies have been carried out in the many ways it can be used to treat various disorders and abnormalities.

http://www.piracetam.com

Julian.

[ballzac]

I think its the law that caused such mindless drones.

So therefore the law does work...I mean, isn't that what the Australian government wants?

[Avaricial]

So therefore the law does work...I mean, isn't that what the Australian government wants?

I personally think the australian government is clueless, especially in this case of piracetam scheduling.

Theres no reason for it, apparent or otherwise.