The Dog Who Loved to Suck on Toads

[nabraxas]

October 24, 2006 · A dog may be man's best friend. But one dog, Lady, decided she needed more friends -- and she found plenty in the knot of toads living at the local pond. A suburban family's secret struggle with an uncommon addiction comes to light in this personal essay by NPR's Laura Mirsch.

Lady "was really perky, and happy, and generally excited to see you when you came in the door every day," recalls Andrew Mirsch.

But that was before the Mirsch family moved into a new house.

"We noticed Lady spending an awful lot of time down by the pond in our backyard," Laura Mirsch recalls.

Lady would wander the area, disoriented and withdrawn, soporific and glassy-eyed.

"Then, late one night after I'd put the dogs out, Lady wouldn't come in," Laura Mirsch says. "She finally staggered over to me from the cattails. She looked up at me, leaned her head over and opened her mouth like she was going to throw up, and out plopped this disgusting toad."

It turned out the toads were toxic -- and, if licked, the fluids on their skin provided a hallucinogenic effect.

What followed was the Mirsch family's quest to stop their cocker spaniel from indulging herself. But it wasn't easy. Lady was persistent, and resourceful.

The situation seemed to resolve itself when the toads went into hibernation for the winter.

But when they returned, so did Lady -- and with a vengeance.

"We couldn't keep our dog's addiction a secret any longer," Laura Mirsch says. "The neighbors all knew that Lady was a drug addict, and soon the other dogs weren't allowed to play with her."

In the end, Lady seems to have found a way to manage her problem.

"She seems to have outgrown the wild toad-obsessed years of her youth," Mirsch says, "and now only sucks on weekends."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6376594

Edited October 26, 2006 by nabraxas

[synaesthesia]

haha thats a really funny story. I wonder if lady will go to jail

[wandjina]

I was under the impression toad venom wasn't orally active? Perhaps this not the case for dogs?

Its like the 'phalaris staggers' in cattle/sheep/horses...I keep hearing that its not the tryptamines that are to blame (if I recall, death usually due to cardiovascular failure), but other toxins, yet I've also heard and read many reports of animals behaving in a peculiar manner, as if 'tripping'.

How one would know with any certainty if a cow is tripping I do not know, but if you're familar with normal bovine behaviour then i guess it could be obvious....responding to invisible stimuli etc.

[botanika]

Perhaps humans are not the only animal with an urge to alter consciousness...

http://www.amazon.com/Animals-Psychedelics...TF8&s=books

Edited October 26, 2006 by botanika

[wandjina]

Couldn't find the moe light-hearted story i was after which involved fermented hawthorn and groggy sparrows....but here's one abut pissed waxwings:

Berries intoxicate birds

Columbia, South Carolina - Dozens of birds, drunk from eating holly berries, are crashing into the glass of a Columbia office building. Some of the birds have survived but many others have died.

Warm weather and an ample supply of berries attracted hundreds of cedar waxwings into the enclosed courtyard of the three-story building. The birds began getting drunk on the berries.

Building owner Burgess Mills says the birds were falling off branches and others were slamming into the glass walls that enclose the courtyard.

Workers say about half of the 100 birds that slammed into the building died. Groundskeepers have put tape on windows amd nets over the holly trees to keep the birds from eating the berries.

[foolsbreath]

I was under the impression toad venom wasn't orally active? Perhaps this not the case for dogs?

Doesn't say the type of toad or where from, but most have Bufotenin some also have 5-meo as well and they also have other toxins which can make them dangerous to humans inparticular. Cane toads are pretty nasty in those terms really. Bufotenine is orally active in man (as tested by Ott), so that is probably the causitive agent

[sobriquet]

Couldn't find the moe light-hearted story i was after which involved fermented hawthorn and groggy sparrows....but here's one abut pissed waxwings:

Berries intoxicate birds

Columbia, South Carolina - Dozens of birds, drunk from eating holly berries, are crashing into the glass of a Columbia office building. Some of the birds have survived but many others have died.

Warm weather and an ample supply of berries attracted hundreds of cedar waxwings into the enclosed courtyard of the three-story building. The birds began getting drunk on the berries.

Building owner Burgess Mills says the birds were falling off branches and others were slamming into the glass walls that enclose the courtyard.

Workers say about half of the 100 birds that slammed into the building died. Groundskeepers have put tape on windows amd nets over the holly trees to keep the birds from eating the berries.

Fascinating wandjina.

What this raised in my mind was the 'evolution' of plants and strategies for insuring their survival may not always be in the best interests of other organisms.

Normally a bird would be in a symbiotic type relationship with the trees they eat the seeds of. In exchange for the calories in the fruit, the bird deposits the seed together with a bit of nitrogen into a spot it may germinate from.

In the above scenario it seems the plant is not satisfied with just a measly amount of guano with its seed. It wants by causing the death of the bird, the whole body of the bird to rot and the seeds to be released into a very richly fertilised spot!

[PD.]

I have heard of currawongs getting "drunk" after eating rotten fruit. It wouldnt suprise me either because they try and eat everything around here when they come down from the the mountains for winter. The worst was when they were trying to pull the little pups of one of my pedro cuts and take any other little cacti that hadnt put down enough roots to anchor it.

[wandjina]

mmm, yes, good points sobriquet.

There is always alot of conjecture re the presence of psychoactives in plants, and their possible purpose (defence mechanism seems a popular, although largely inadequate, explanation)...

Although plants containing mind-altering substances were probably doing their thing long before hominids, or for that matter mammals, appeared, if one 'wanted' (not very Darwinian I know...heheh) to guarentee survival of ones species, making oneself valuable to another, useful species ('dominant'=most useful?), would seem a good way to go.

For example, the prospect of shrinking gene pool/diversity notwithstanding (in so far as mainstream selecting for commercial viablilty), I can't imagine Cannabis spp. ever becoming extinct.

Dogs too, evolutionarily speaking, seem to have made a wise decision becoming our 'best friends' (some interesting co-evol hypoth here too regarding human sense of smell/hearing...pretty sure someone posted re this)....

It would seem that being of value to humans is a double-edged sword...good if you're a dog or 'drug plant' perhaps...not so good if you're a tree in old growth forest or have sexy fur...but then we can get into arguements about sustainabilty can't we. blah blah blah

Just some ideas, not ones I necessarily subscribe to...or unsubscribe too

Edited October 26, 2006 by wandjina

[MrBumpy]

My mates Jack Russell does the same thing with canetoads.

He corners them and teases them for a bit, then holds them down with his paws and licks their backs, then after awhile, you can normally find him lying on his back in a corner in the garden for a while. Doesn't seem to have been detrimental to this dog either, I think he would be around 14 years old now.

Unfortunately this wasn't the case for a second dog that they got, she died after she tried licking the toads

-bumpy

[transDiMenTional]

i must admit that back in my younger years of death wishes and random drug ingestion i consumed an unknown amount of dried poison from the cane toad. It was def active to some degree. The most effect was felt when smoked tho. haha stupid stupid times

[teonanacatl]

WE get drunk lorikeets all over the place here :D

Some more examples of animals getting high:

-Raindeer eat A. muscaria.

- Some sort of meercat or mongoose eats morning glory seeds after a loved one has died.

- Ants farm some bugs which nodoubt have some form of effect.

- Flys and fly agaric

- Bugs love to get high, picked some lotus flowers the otherday and found two catipillars that had been chomping asleep, i poked them....nothing, i prodded them.........nothing, i pushed them quite hard, they moved for a second then went back to sleep :D The easiest way to get catipillars off kratom is to shake the tree and they fall off.

[mescalito]

Ever seen that bottle of Amarula Liqour at the bottle'o with the elephant and the fruit on the label?

http://www.amarula.com/conservation/newsletter.pdf

[twich]

Prettymuch any animal will get drunk if it consumes enough alcohol. Even butterflies will get too drunk to move, let alone fly away, if they feed from fermented fruits, and it may take hours for the effects to wear off. This is actually one way to catch them, but what kind of saddist would drug and murder a butterfly?

(apart from me He He He!)

[nabraxas]

Prettymuch any animal will get drunk if it consumes enough alcohol.

apart from flies which have a gene that blocks the effect ov alcohol. mainly because one ov their main food sources is rotting/fermenting fruit & veg so they've evolved not to die while feeding.

[transDiMenTional]

i was under the impression that insects and other small animals would lack the neural complexity to get drunk/high.

The dagga eating possum in my garden eats dagga from my hand now, I notice that he/she gets quite stoned from eating it One night it even drank aya from my cup. Just came up to me, looked at me and then took a sip from my cup. I was too bewildered to even think about the reprocussions! it spiked itself on a bridgesii soon after and we didnt c it for the rest of the night so i dunno if it had any effect.

On another note, my mate was saying that in the NT the aboriginals there catch the lorekeets that get drunk and drop from the umbrella trees. they say they are good in currys and they have a very fruity flavour! yum

[teonanacatl]

i was under the impression that insects and other small animals would lack the neural complexity to get drunk/high.

Its pretty prevalent. Moths that pollinate datura have to spend a little down time after they have done a few flowers. Fly's will drink from fly agarics then pass out (see people thought they were dead) but after a period of time they just get up and fly away.

[wandjina]

yeah...I suspect altered states (however understood) are pretty common in the 'lower' animals. I've tripped with a cockroach.

Many, many moons ago I had some mushies strung up drying, and when I decided to bring em down noticed a big black cockie perched atop the largest. It wouldn't budge...which of course is strange for a roach, didn't seem to have any startle reflex at all. Just clung to the mushy, even after quite vigorous shaking.

Eventually i noticed that several of the other caps had been nibbled in succession, and it dawned on me!

Closer inspection revealed the roaches behaviour to be profoundly effected...it's antennae spun wildly in circles, its mouth parts move rhythmically, very slowly as if licking its 'lips', it preened itself repeatedly with great care, and made no effort to flee.

We spent the next few hours together...him/her on his/her mushroom, and me on the couch...heheh

I've heard ants behave strangely when exposed to spice as well...read an anecdotal report of someone who put a small crystal in front of an ant, the ant approached, touched it, walked around in a perfect circle for a few minutes, then wandered off unharmed.

[Μορφέας]

http://www.erowid.org/animals/toads/

erowid rocks, all the info on smoking toad venom (5-MeO-DMT) and licking the skin and smoking the skin is there in links if anyone is interested. Im interested in smoking the 5-MeO-DMT crystals from canetoad venom glands...

Edited October 30, 2006 by tepa

[transDiMenTional]

be aware Tepa that the cane toad we have here in australia is different to the one mentioned in ur link. Im pretty sure that the Bufo sp we have here does not contain 5meo!

[teonanacatl]

The toads around here are B. marinus and contain only bufotenine (so say all the references ive found). Planthelper has smoked some from them and said it was psychoactive. There is a thread at www.ethnobotany-australia.org about it go search for it

[transDiMenTional]

ya it is def psychoactive!