Cannabis Induced Psychosis

[Greeny]

Hello all I've been absent from these halls of wisdom for some time now

Main reason being time I was basically too hammered and always cruising round.

I gotta say I'm really happy to see all the good old names still here as they were before the knowledge I’ve gained from this forum is immense and all the knowledge I have gained has come with much heeded warnings but being young and restless I figured the usual NOT ME IM INVINSABLE.

I would just like to state to any new users and any forum reader cannabis can mess your head up even though it doesn't generate problems directly it can lead to a lifestyle that will

I only recently got released from a voluntary stay at a mental health clinic and I'm in no rush to return but it also allowed me to gain a lot more perspective on life. I refer to it as my spirit journey as our forefathers have had before the days of prohibition I however had nobody to guide me as many of my surrounding peers depended on my knowledge (cheers peeps) to avert their own episodes. You could call it an “out of body experience” if you will. My mind literally left the confines of my body and I believed I could easily read people’s minds by gauging their body language and response to statements I myself made.

This came about after 2 months of heavy stress and no more than 1-2 hrs sleep a night and oh yeah need not forget the lack of food. Well real food anyhow McDonalds is not in any food group I believe. At the point of what I would call the snap I was smoking by myself easily 7 grams each day. That wasn’t shared that was my average intake and it had become my sober state. Without it I instantaneously became hyper aggressive and with it I became hyper perceptive. This wound me up at the point of a permanent state of cat like awareness of my surroundings and perhaps even hallucinations. I had come to belief that MJ could not induce mental illness but I will state this now too much of anything is a bad thing.

I caution anybody pondering the use of mind altering substances and remember let yourself recover always don’t ride your high because the high will soon die and before you know it you will be consumed by your passion. Always eat and sleep properly and do not allow yourself to balance stress with drugs this is a rollercoaster ride to hell.

I look on my experience in the mental health clinic as a self apocalypse and now I don’t smoke any more MJ. Thus I passed my judgment day and now every day is heaven in comparison. I believe very strongly that this is the message that the bible tried to display. The most shocking part of the experience was the people I was inside with. They all had very delusional ideas on reality and all but one was suicidal. However I and that one other person could be classed as homicidal. This clash of heads allowed me to see past my problems and to again perceive what allows people to generate the views which they hold onto so dearly.

So here is my little X step warning procedure of oncoming metal breakdown.

1. Everything around you is a sign from the greater power. – This may be true but always caution yourself as to what end that message depicts. You may believe the world is ending but it is just yours.

2. Very few people structure plans to get you. – However if they do then they are sure to slip up in an obvious manner before they do get you. So it is good to trust others especially when you are lonely.

3. YOU are NOT part of some greater force and there is nothing which controls your actions apart from your mind. Your body will tell you what is happening as long as you do not detach your mind from the reality in which your body exists.

4. Self awareness is truly attained at 21 not 18 so don’t think that because you can enter pubs that you have a right to be their remember boys it’s a mans world If you play men’s game you will endure mans pains.

5. If you really don’t make sense you’re surrounding peers will tell you very soon but you must acknowledge their views as well. Remember when you do need help it’s a true friend that will tell you.

6. On top of all these rules to consider your perception of reality please do remember that we do rely on brain chemicals to be happy in general so always give them chance to regenerate. You know you have problems when every day use has come about. This is only one step from constant use.

7. Any substance is addictive. Even television if you rely on something to pass its perspective onto you then you are already lost

8. Last but not least trust yourself. You are not an animal until your body reverts you to a primal state where your conscious thought patterns are thrown out the window and this is clear when you decide it best course of action to strike preemptivly of perhaps unjust fully

I’m sure I’ve made very little sense right now but yeah the world is only just beginning to again make sense and I have had to segregate myself from my friends in order to avoid temptation. Drugs can control people so don’t let them control you. With all that un pleasantness out of the way I do really look forward to meeting some of the members from this forum in person I am sure I must be very young and now that I feel I have reached maturity I would like to share my views on the world. Now I know for sure I am able to listen to other people’s views with only minor objection.

So please everybody your criticism is now welcome even requested but please be constructive emotions are not to be controlled by anyone else but yourself just respect the emotions of others when thinking of your own.

Thankyou all bye for now

[apothecary]

Are you serious?

This came about after 2 months of heavy stress and no more than 1-2 hrs sleep a night and oh yeah need not forget the lack of food. Well real food anyhow McDonalds is not in any food group I believe. At the point of what I would call the snap I was smoking by myself easily 7 grams each day.

So, how exactly is this cannabis induced psychosis and not mental breakdown from nutrient and sleep depravation, high sodium diet and lots of stress?

[apothecary]

Shit dude. 2 months of McDonalds would do it to you alone, haven't you seen 'SuperSize Me'?

[PD.]

yeah need not forget the lack of food

Its funny how many ppl have said this when i asked what they think was the cause or what brought forward the conditions. Yet it seems to be the most overlooked factor i feel, that and a lack of (deep)sleep.

Edited September 24, 2006 by Passive Daemon

[_e_]

i would tend to agree that this would seem on first appearances to be a state of nervous breakdown as a result of cummulative environmental stressors.

Of course cannabis (and the amount you were smoking) plays a key role in the illness described, but i think labeling it as cannabis induced psychosis is relatively inaccurate.

As mentioned, anyone living the lifestyle u describe would be at risk of mental and physical health problems, even without smoking cannabis.

[transDiMenTional]

I agree with apoth and E here. Nutrition, sleep dep and of course the excessive amount of cannabis u were smoking are ALL factors.

IMO visit your local naturopath and get some nutritional advice and perhaps some herbs to help you sleep. Nutrition and good sleep are key to good (mental) health.

Glad to hear your on the mend greeny!

[Prophet]

Life is full of hard lessons greeny, its good to see that you have learnt from your experience. I myself gave up weed. It is very unpredictable and effects some people differently. I had some strange experiences to when i was smoking but i was never a chronic smoker and those experiences were when i was under the influence of the herb. I worst i experienced was anxiety/panic. These few strange experiences convinced me that it wasn't for me. Unless i have a medical reason to smoke the stuff i don't plan on smoking it again.

[planthelper]

cannabis induced psychosis feels something like that, you are feeling a bit crazy, but once you get stoned the condition becomes 5 times worse and the psychosis stays with you even after the cannabis has worned off. sometimes you experience things on cannabis which shock you and hang around you for an extended periode of time, same can happen with other halus, however sometimes cannabis can throw you at a space which you will basicly never will forget about.

it seems however that one can learn not to be afraid of all those wiered happenings and as such when you come out of it again, nothing of the uncomfortable experienced stays with you.

it can be a cognitive thing, if you fight it it will become worse, just accept the kernell of thruth behind it and be greatfull for it, even if it's very painfull.

[gomaos]

Cannabis will uncover latent psychosis.

What you experienced, was already there, cannabis brought it out, you went into treatment, hopefully you are better now.

Cannabis is very valuable as a tool in treating psychologic diseases.

If you hadn't used it, the psychosis would still be lurking in your subconcious, perhaps never come out, and would never be treated.

Well maybe you would have liked it that way, but stuff that's hidden away in one's subconcious can become very annoying and lead to all sort of things...

[medicinedan]

excellent post greeny, glad to hear that you pulled through it all.

I know a large percentage of people here (including myself) are advocates for the medical/ theripeutical use of cannabis but I think some people are in denial that cannabis can and does cause a specific form of psychosis, and greeny has described it well. I have experienced psychosis in the past from 'chronic' smoking of weed over a period of 4 years. When i say chronic I mean smoking 3-8 pipes/ bongs, 3-4 times per day and triple that on the weekend.

It becomes a lifestyle, and I think this is what greeny was saying. The reason for his messed up diet and sleep ect were part of the lifestyle resulting from totally chronic weed smoking?

As for cannabis revealing latent psychosis, well can someone explain that one to me? Because I dont see how someone who displays psychosis from marijuana usage can be proved that they would have experienced that later in life, or that it was lying dormant. The only thing that would be solid fact to go on would be the family history of mental illness. But if someone develops a state of psychosis from smoking marijuana then any later episodes could be said to be the result of psychosis induced by cannabis earlier on in life.

Cannabis will uncover latent psychosis.

What you experienced, was already there, cannabis brought it out, you went into treatment, hopefully you are better now.

Ah! thats crazy talk. Thats not unlike saying 'smoking crack cocaine will bring out latent psychosis, you went nuts and killed your friend, the crack brought it all out into the open, your friends dead, you are in jail, now that you have got that out of your head you should be better.

I have seen other people also develop a psychosis, it bares a resemblance to amphetamine psychosis where the sufferer usually becomes extremely violent and aggressive when they are not stoned, couple this with huge paranoia of people plotting against you ect and it could have a serious result.

[gomaos]

Chemical "X" a substance that induces psychoses, does not exist.

No substance in the world can induce psychosis.

Substances can only amplify what's already there.

Substances can induce hallucinations which will disappear when the substance stops working.

Or, in some cases of so-called lsd- induced psychoses, or in this case, cannabis, they may take longer.

But no chemical in the world can actually "produce" or rather induce psychosis.

That's crazy talk...

I have seen other people also develop a psychosis, it bares a resemblance to amphetamine psychosis where the sufferer usually becomes extremely violent and aggressive when they are not stoned, couple this with huge paranoia of people plotting against you ect and it could have a serious result.

This is called "withdrawal symptoms, side-effects or after-effects"

a psychosis is a serious, permanent mental illness, in many cases incurable and can only be treated to minimise symptoms.

After-effects from cannabis or other, stronger hallucinogens are not psychoses.

In many cases cannabis will show the user certain aspects of his personality or his life that the user cannot comprehend or "believe".

It may show you something that happened in your childhood, some event that you haven't dealt with and pushed back into the subconcious.

When you then see it and judge it with your "adult-mind" it becomes unbeliebable and incomprehensible.

The user will take more of the substance trying to push this certain event or events back into the subconcious. This will work with alcohol, but not with cannabis.

Time and again it will show your wrongs until you deal with it.

I had so-called "cannabis-psychosis" when I was young too.

It made me deal with my problems which was good.

I cannot judge other people and their lives.

Perhaps their personality/life is too much to be dealt with.

In that case, stop cannabis-consumption totally.

I say it again, "cannabis-psychosis" does not exist.

At least, it's not a psychosis. Call it something else if you will/

Edited September 25, 2006 by gomaos

[medicinedan]

This is called "withdrawal symptoms, side-effects or after-effects"

Acknowledged, I mixed withdrawl symptoms up with the psychosis. I understand that it is not a true psychosis and I suppose it only bares some resemblance to a true psychosis.

Most notable symptoms that come to mind are intense paranoia;

scared to go into bright public places like a shopping centre,

Thinking that friends or the whole world are working against you, or plotting to kill you,ect

another symptom is some megalomania, delusions of grandeur, strange powers ect

and others;, Getting stuck in the same train of thought,

Dwelling over something for a long period of time

Its important to note that these symptoms only persist while they are being fed with copious amounts of cannabis, and after stopping cannabis they cease quickly. So I suppose they are really only short term effects that come about from an extended period of being stoned.

I retract my crazy talk statement

[Greeny]

Blah!

Yeah was writing a response but the head shrinker today doubled my olanzapine dosage i'm a bit ga ga'd at the second. It seems that their are a few people argueing each side of this topic. I would just like to pose these questions to you all.

Why would they be called mind altering drugs?

Do you feel as if you have learn't anything after use?

It is my belief that problems do arise from substance use they just become latent with substance abuse.

But perhaps im just shitty cuz other people seem to be able to take a truck load of substances and show no negative mental effects. Or perhaps these people have lead easy stress free lives. Not stressless but I grew up in cabramatta, Sydney. I wonder if I grew up In the eastern suburbs would I be sooo messed up.

Sorry everyone Im a bit too heavily medicated at the second to make decent valid responses the psycho doubled my dose today and gave me the stronger valiums to cope when I'm getting how would you say. Out of porportion. But ill try and look at the thread a bit later when the anti psych meds aren't impeeding my thought patterns so much.

the only reason I continue these meds is due to the very violent nature my thought patterns have become. My last want is to offend nebody

[Hagakure]

sounds like you are in a tight spot greeny. i wish you good luck in pulling through it okay.

[mescalito]

Welcome back Greeny, I think you really nailed it in your first post personally.

I also agree with Dan and Gom too in many ways.The subconscious is where it's at.It's a collection of all your past experiences stored in a compressed file that's unintelligible to the conscious mind.So like binary code to a GUI it uses symbols and that's where the psychedelics come in if you get my drift?

Mary Jane is only a weak but temporary bridge to communicating with the subconscious and not overly useful for permanent insight....the tryptamines......well

Dude all can say is that you're on the right track but my only advice is that if the Pharms are now making you doubt yourself then why did the Doc double the dose??

You seem to be getting a grip so IMHO just be careful as to how much your doc fucks around with your meds...but that's just my opinion.

Good luck my friend.

[woof woof woof]

sleep deprivation, drug use, lack of food or water, psychological & physical torture, fever, exhaustion, stress, etc etc etc can cause psychosis in even the most stable people.

everyone can crack up.

[Greeny]

I suppose your all right if I had been taken to a tibet monestary I could imagine that they would have told me to meditate for an hour or so. But I guess i'm not nearly qualified enough to diagnose mental problems. All that I know are my problems and I guess that the lesson to be learned from the entire experience is to help yourself in order to help others. Perhaps it was a mental breakdown, Perhaps I am a psycho.

Whatever the case I'm just glad nobody gave me the opportunity to take it out on them because I would have certainly killed them. That was something I never planned to do from the start but I'm quite sure everyone that encountered me that day seen that I had bloody murder written all over me.

Funny before I had a son It was the brightest option to remove myself from this world in order to spare everyone else. This time however it manifested as remove everyone else in order to save myself.

Im hella glad the first olanzapine worked when it did and I can easily see how that may have become my new addiction to replace MJ. If the govt wants to give it to me for free so that I'm not a danger to the public however then I can't say anything against it but I do feel guilty about it.

I wish that required medicine was free for anybody who needed or depended on it. My mother for example is an insulin dependant diabetic yet she must pay for her treatment, and her blood pressure pills, the pills to counteract the sideaffects of those and on and on I'm glad I don't have that sort of medicinal balanceing act.

Guess I should just stop complaining about the whole mess that has been 22 years now and just focus on the next 22. Sorry for anyone that gets in my way now tho because I can explode very quickly and the world I grew up in has only taught me fast brutal retaliation.

Either way thanks all hearing the opinions of other much wiser shamans has helped me to understand my belief structure alot better cheers peeps

[chilli]

I just wanted to stir things up a bit and chip in to say that I tend to agree with Gomaos when he says it is not accurate to label drug-induced mental problems as actual psychoses (although I think this is definitely open to debate), but I would also like to point out that this does not mean that they are any less serious.

I also gave up pot after years of being stoned all day, and I am sorry I didn’t do it sooner. There are many people for whom it is definitely not a good idea to mess around with psychedelic drugs of any kind. Not only people who have latent psychoses, but people with a propensity for anxiety and depression in my experience may have very negative ongoing reactions to psychedelic experiences. For these people, it may not be a freeing but a traumatizing experience.

Getting on your high horse and saying that this is because they have all these repressed subconscious problems that they refuse to deal with, is just a form of victim blaming, and suggesting that uncovering latent mental problems with psychedelic drugs is actually a good thing seems absurd and irresponsible.

[devance]

Sounds like nobody that even used marijuana.

Not a violent drug.

And not asociated with a violent drug activity.

Its has is down side like not being politically functional.

[Big George]

Greeny, you are 100% right mate.

I went through what you describe, and at age 21 and 11/12ths I *WAS* at where you were at. Hallucinating when I didn't smoke, and I was at the point where I didn't know what was real and what was in my head, who was or wasn't out to get me. As you said, usually it's nobody... So true!

Sounds like you've got it pretty much figured out, but a few points I'd like to add:

1. Don't make ANY Major decisions in your life for 18 months after your last smoke. It will take that long to get yourself 100% right. Do not borrow money, do not get married, do not get anybody pregnant....

2. You will be normal again afterwards. Just don't go backwards.

3. Eat well and exercise, lift weights. That will put your insulin levels back to normal, and eating a lot of healthy food with a lot of variety will do you good. It takes MONTHS/Years for your body to get the right amounts of certain amino acids back in order, as you said.. This affects brain chemistry very much. One thing that did me a lot of good was eating fatty meat. Animal fats won't make you fat, but eating FAT regularly has a lot of impact on your sanity and happiness chemicals. Eat fat. But not Trans-Fat.

I had a terrible amount of muscle wastage from not eating, and smoking too much pot. I had gone from 110kg muscly/fat to a 55kg skeleton.

I am now 80kg muscly and this is a very happy medium for me, but now i'm 30 years old.

I can eat like a teenager and burn it off by throwing weights around for an hour every couple of days.

Do Not Go Back mate. You've done the hard work. I'd love to shake your hand man, coz i've been there and I know what you went thru.

[Greeny]

Greeny, you are 100% right mate.

1. Don't make ANY Major decisions in your life for 18 months after your last smoke. It will take that long to get yourself 100% right. Do not borrow money, do not get married, do not get anybody pregnant....

I never plan to marry anyone, I never borrow money, Im trying to get into the career that was my passion thru childhood and as far as the whole pregnancy thing well I kinda messed that one up all ready but my boy is 3 now and I wouldn't change that for the world although I definatly do not plan to have another.

[Greeny]

Sounds like nobody that even used marijuana.

Not a violent drug.

And not asociated with a violent drug activity.

Its has is down side like not being politically functional.

Sorry dude but I'm afraid you are very wrong their

I have seen alot of violence in the name of MJ

It doesn't induce it when you are stoned infact getting stoned can diffuse a really tense situation

But using it to diffuse those situations just ads it to the comedown wagon

Thats when It all comes out and if you have suppressed years of agression with MJ then watch out because this explosion might kill someone else If it doesn't manifest as sucide