Yeti101

We are certainly heading that way, and with alcohol too. I think the restrictions on booze would generate the most discussion though. I would hope that we can make some inroads before things get to that point, because I don't think that prohibition is the answer to the problems that legal drugs cause either.

I agree Mind. It's just going to take a lot to really get the ball rolling. Right now, the majority of Australians aren't interested in Liberty, because most of what they want to do is legal (or it's illegal, but unenforced). If/when this changes, the idea of letting responsible adults do as they choose with regard to substances will suddenly become worth talking about.

A friend has told me that the High Court is not presently favourable to amicus briefs, so your representation might want to think carefully about what they include (if they weren't already). If the argument is so good, then what are the submissions (or admissions) that we can provide going to add? Good pick-up on the 'confidence' JoP. I agree that it seems strange, but I haven't seen the brief. The outcome described by niall seems unlikely to me, no matter what argument is presented. That's not about the law, that's about how the world works. The Law works for Power, not the other way around. And I would be very suspicious of any lawyer who claimed to be able to bring this about. If this argument is half as good as it sounds, then it should be interesting. But I'm inclined to be pessimistic in order to avoid disappointment.

That's a lot of pills. No crying though, because Pills are bad, mkay.

It isn't the convenience I object to, rather the abuse. And it's not even abuse. I mean, if I want to take a hallucinogen for shits and giggles, then I would not call that abuse. Being involved in massive commercial operations or the posting of u-tube vids that could reasonably be assumed would lead to scheduling - that's abuse of a substance, not to mention it's well intentioned users. I would not know how many letters to the TGA or pollies it would take. I think it's a bit symbolic where the TGA is concerned. But pollies are a differnt matter, especially in marginal electorates. I think we have to be smart about this and be aware that as the screws get tightened on all psychoactive substances, legal or otherwise, we are potentially going to have some strange political/ideological bedfellows. I think this underlines the potentially difficult situation we are in her in Aus. In other countries, you could make the harm comparison with alcohol, and that might work. But in the current climate here we are more likely to get prohibition of alcohol ( wouldn't that be fun), that legalisation of a hallucinogen. The trouble is that harm is something the TGA believes in. Liberty might not be. No, the scheduling was not a good thing, and I love to see it over turned, because the community is a bit more mature now I think. But we are better for it. But that's life, sometimes bad shit happens, and sometimes, (if the shit isn't too bad) you learn from it. I like to think that we won't make the same mistakes here again if we 'discover' something good. I can't imagine what federal scheduling of SD (and Kratom) will do to the US ethno community though. Edit: My spelling and grammar still suck.

Isn't that the fucking truth! If prohibition was about harm, then list of what was legal or not would look very different. The trouble is that certain conservatives have a conception of harm that takes in an immaterial form of harm to society or the universe or something. They just don't believe that any self action is independent in any way (metaphysical or otherwise). No matter how little effect your drug use has on other people or even yourself they will tell you it is wrong, because for them, anything that produces the kind of mind-states we are looking for here is inherently evil <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_devil.gif . I am all for taking a more philosophical as opposed to harm reductionist approach, but against hard-core conservatives, I'm not sure what will work. You sure are not going to sell them on any 'individual liberty' type platform. Maybe a combined approach is needed: "So long as it doesn't mess anyone else's life up, what I do to my brain is between me and God". I'm no believer, but the idea that self-effecting choices are between an individual and the deity has been a powerful one throughout history - in Europe at least. Liberty is an unpopular word in Australian politics at the moment ( and lets face it, we've never been very big on it), and it is going to take a really concerted effort to change that. On a different note, even though I miss Sally D, the prohibition we have had to endure has, IMHO, made us smarter, more resourceful, better researchers, more responsible practitioners and more ethical vendors. Mostly at least - no generalisation is 100% true eh? If you think that being able to buy SD (and all those other things we can't) easily over the net necessarily makes a society better, then go and roll around in the unfocused sound and fury over at eDot. There a lot of good people there, but there are a lot of idiots who take powerful tools for granted. I admit we still do that (me included), but I'm willing to bet that it is a shitload less often. But what to do? I don't know much about the 'Salvia Crusaders', so I don't know if throwing in with them is a good idea. Personally I'm a big fan of standing up and being counted. Write to the TGA. Write to various politicians. Write articles for various publications that may (or may not) be sympathetic to your cause. But doing this comes at a price, and that price is that you can never get caught breaking the law. You could write a pro-SD essay that could win the Nobel prize for literature, but if the police turn your house over (and they probably will) and find something naughty, then it will all be for nothing.

Even Rove mentioned it on his show the other night. If that's not main-stream media coverage, I don't know what is. I can't say that it bodes well for people who like their PS tea.

PM'd <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_drool2.gif

Well if MAO (And MAO-A at that) inhibition is occurring then (where legal of course) it's a relatively simple experiment to check it out. Whatever the approach, this needs to be tested without the coffee to even have a chance at drawing a valid conclusion. It would be interesting if it turned out to be a less strong, but longer acting MAOI.

Give Scotch Bonnet Chocolate a go if you haven't already. I don't think it is the hottest strain out there, but it is far and away the hottest thing I've ever grown. Nice idea with the crosses though. Some people might like some of the chinense flavour without the usual heat.

Thanks Niall, I look forward to hearing more about this.

I agree with Torsten on this. However much I appreciate that you don't want to disclose anything that is going to be used in court, your secrecy is only going to stop people in the community from trusting you enough to make a serious contribution. You must be able to give us more to go on.

If they think Khat makes men bad news, wait till they try some synthetic amphetamines instead. Seriously though, if all of these abusive men stopped chewing khat, I would not think that all of them would stop being abusive. I have never chewed a massive amount myself, but I had not found it intoxicating enough to significantly effect my behaviour either way.

Two pieces of information: 1. I actually had a headache yesterday, so I tried out an infusion of a small amount of crushed leaf. About an hour later I started to improve, and the relief lasted about 5 hours before it began to taper away. My mood didn't improve much, as I was having a shit day. But I was impressed that the stress that would normally cause my head to feel like it was going to split in half did not produce the usual symptoms. I can't completely rule out placebo effect, but usually when I get a bad headache, nothing helps. 2. Fittonia verschaffeltii is also known as Motelillo and the Ecuadorian 'Ketchwa' use the leaf infusion for toothache, according to Duke in the Amazonian Ethnobotanical Dictionary. This second bit of info is interesting, as I would not have thought that something that effects the serotonin systems would work as an analgesic for toothache. Or would it? Please correct me if I'm wrong <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

Yeah I read that on Russo's page a while back, hence my excitement back in April. That it acts on 1A&2A sounds consistent with both the use as a headache cure and as a hallucinogen. But he doesn't say if it's an antagonist or agonist on those receptors. Any ideas?

It's hard to say, but I had thought of LSA's. This would kind of make sense. But I'm not convinced, and I can't yet put my finger on why. Either way, all I can say so far is that a cuppa made with a small amount of fresh leaf didn't cause any ill effects. Next time I have a headache I'll have to see if it helps.

And I thought they just contributed by using a stack of electricity.

Scored a decent sized Fittonia argyroneura from Bunnings yesterday. I'll give a few weeks to settle in before starting some much needed pruning. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_innocent_n.gif I don't think that it will be too hard to propagate (once it gets warmer), stems are already throwing adventitious roots. Also, when the leaves or stems are crushed, it has a smell reminiscent of cucumber.

Don't potatoes contain GABA?

I guess we will just have to wait and see. If & when the Australian cases are published, we might have something to go off.

I say correlation because we don't know the exact mechanism of causation yet, we just see two events that suspiciously coincide. What are you sceptical about? The people went deaf (I mean really stone fucking deaf) and the only thing they had in common was long term codeine use (I assume that the ear-doctors tested for Hep C in eliminating other co-morbidities). Coupled with similar cases in the US concerning hydrocodone, I'd say that there is something worth investigating here. Sure, it might turn out that all of these people had something else with them that made them go deaf, but that seems pretty unlikely. Or it might be that it was the combination of Para and codeine that does it in susceptible individuals, and we can't rule out Hepatitis as a factor either. It's too soon to say exactly what is going on. All I'm pointing out is that there might be yet another reason why you might not want to take Codeine on a long term basis. Similarly, people with Hep C might like to know that their Panadeine Forte might send them deaf.

Given that the metabolizing enzymes CYP2D6 and/or CYP3D4 that are named as being possibly implicated in the hearing loss with Hydrocodone (Ho et al 123, cited by Benyamin et al, p S114 - see the link below) are also involved in the metabolism of Codeine, then it is possible that people with the same genetic polymorphisms will be susceptible to hearing loss with Codeine. Incidentally, that this has not cropped up in pure Paracetamol users rules it out as a sufficient cause, but not necessarily as a contributing factor. Pain Physician 2008 Special Opioid Issue http://www.painphysicianjournal.com/2008/a...1;S105-S120.pdf

This morning on one of the commercial channels (Ch 7 I think) there was a snippet in the news that had someone associated with the Cochlear clinic (in Melbourne maybe?) saying that they have found a correlation between sudden (otherwise unexplained) hearing loss and long term codeine use (even if that use was at recommended dosages). I didn't pay much attention as I figured something like this would be on the web, but I can't find mention of it on any news sites. Did anyone else here about this? It would be a really big thing if it were true. I'm a little concerned (and paranoid) that such an important story would fail to make the news sites, given the level of codeine use in Australia.

IMO there are references that don't check out, which concerns me. The reference for Acacia podalyriifolia having 0.5 - 2% DMT in bark points to a text that simply does not contain that information - but since it's in German (I think) no one seems to have picked it up. Is there some secret policy of spreading misinformation that I'm not party to? The editor responsible for this does a lot of work regarding Acacias on Wikipedia, so it would seem strange if it were an honest mistake. Conspiracy paranoia aside, I think the page is coming along really well. And if we really don't like it we can always contribute by trying to fix it.

Good thing it's not orally active - otherwise people would be spiking drinks with it.