Lagochilus update

[Maurice]

There is so much unsaid about this powerful, enigmatic ally.

Here are some reflections to fill the knowledge gap.

I have used herb from Daniel Siebert, Herbalistics & home grown.

My home grown was Autumn harvested leaves & stalks.

D.Siebert & Herbalistics' was only seed capsules.

It is said that seed capsules are the most postent material.

I found that my product was the strongest of the 3.

This may be because mine was fresh, properly dried &/or because leaves &

stalks are really the most potent part of the plant?

Proper preparation is key to good effects.

I use the ginseng cooker, ( http://www.botanicalpreservationcorps.com/Accessories_1.htm )

to exhaust the herb.

I have found that good honey added (rather than sugar) to create the best flavoured tea,

results in a superior effect.

A long (hrs) stew is what's needed.

The tea produces euphoria, whole body relaxation, inebriation (very much like alcohol)

and a surprising reduction in obsessive/compulsive thought patterns.

However, the action of repeated dosing via the tea method, does not seem to enable the euphoria.

Best to drink one very strong cup of tea.

There is another route of administration, that does seem to enable the repetition of the euphoric response.

That is as an errhine!

And what a snuff it is, with its wonderful smell, and sinus clearing power.

The material for this method, is obtained using the space grinder ( https://www.spacegrinders.com/ [4PC] ).

The fine crystals are then prepared for insufflation.

Noted effects-

pleasant smell

sneezing

sinus clearing

full body relaxation (hemostatic tonic)

some loss coordination, reminiscent of alcohol inebriation

munchies

strong euphoria

long/strong duration

initially stimulating, later strong sedation with sleep. The biphasic reaction reminiscent of Kanna but more pronounced>

Edited April 3, 2013 by planthelper
added tags

[toast]

Interesting info, thanks.

[planthelper]

great information, maurice!

i have found my homegrown laga aswell a bit better than the stuff from the ethno vendors.

your post inspired me to try the tea and to experiment with snuffs aswell.

funny that you compare it with sceletium as i find that lago and scelly share something, and that is that sometimes they work well and other times they don't seem to do much at all.

i had once a very nice lago experience, wher some lago resin was pyrolised via a bong, at that time i could feel an instant rush to the head, which was instant, and noticeable. the same ammount produced no effects at all weeks later.

many of the seedcapsuls sold as herb contain viable seed, which should be sown out over winter.

maurice can you tell us more about your experiences growning this plant?

did you get flowers? how long did the plant live?

edit: just checked your climat, you live in an ideal climat to cultivate lago, curious to hear more horticultural notes <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_rolleyes.gif .

Edited July 11, 2009 by planthelper

[Maurice]

The seed from Daniel Sieberts seed capsules is fertile.

Seed was sown direct into basalt soil in autumn,

and germinated in Spring.

Plants live to 40 years.

My plants produced a few seeds in first season,

and suspect that will improve next year.

The plants need plenty of water, but not humid environment

[Maurice]

funny that you compare it with sceletium as i find that lago and scelly share something, and that is that sometimes they work well and other times they don't seem to do much at all.

Under what circumstances?

I understand your experoence, and I note that tobacco, alcohol, etc can all be effected by set and setting.

I have noted that with Scelly, potency can reduce with poorly stored herb. It is hydrophilic and must be

kept DRY and airtight. With Lago., a case of properly prepared drug is critical. I sometimes note that

the normalness that both Scelly & Lago. create physiologically, can be mistaken for no effect.

I wish to post a picture of Lago seedlings how do I do that?

[apothecary]

Wow great 1st hand info Maurice!

Thanks for the tip on the Ginseng cooker, where did you buy yours?

Was your home grown material only 1 year or less old?

[planthelper]

i might want to add, that it was the same batch of scelly, or lago herb / resin which seemed to show sometimes strong effects, whilst letting you down at other times...

one time i experienced cev's from smoking scelly resin, but never was able to repeat this process.

reading how you like to mix tabacco with scelly, gave me the idea that maybe tabacco was a potentiating factor at that occasion. tabacco has some maoi like abileties, mixed with scell that might be quite a potent mix...

anyway never mix scelly with caapi or rue.

[Maurice]

Wow great 1st hand info Maurice!

Thanks for the tip on the Ginseng cooker, where did you buy yours?

Was your home grown material only 1 year or less old?

http://www.chineseherbsonline.com.au/

Item not listed on web site, ring and ask for herb stewer, they are available in different sizes.

My Lago was 1st season harvest (<12mn) and looking forward to next harvest.

[Maurice]

A recent bioassay with shake (crystals) of Lagochilus herb-

Only a couple of match heads in each nostril, (too much causes headache).

Taken on EMPTY stomach.

Strong euphoria, with increasing waves of intensity, over at least 2 hours.

The euphoria is that of initial alcohol euphoria, but much stronger and enduring.

This makes sense since the actives of Lagochilus herb are an alcohol.

In other words, this bioassay involved the insufflation of crystalized alcohol.

This method, may be the answer to Jonathan Ott's quest to isolate the euphoric active of alcohol.

for human consumption, thus eliminating the unwanted side effects of alcohol!

[Teotzlcoatl]

In other words, this bioassay involved the insufflation of crystalized alcohol.

This method, may be the answer to Jonathan Ott's quest to isolate the euphoric active of alcohol.

for human consumption, thus eliminating the unwanted side effects of alcohol!

Whoa, whoa hang on... I thought we were talking about "intoxicating mint".... your snorting alcohol?

[Maurice]

Whoa, whoa hang on... I thought we were talking about "intoxicating mint".... your snorting alcohol?

The active is a diterpene alcohol,

not ethanol,

but YES, snorting alcohol!

[Teotzlcoatl]

So the active in "Intoxicating Mint" is actually a form of alcohol? No way!?

[tripsis]

This thread is really good, very informative. Thanks Maurice.

Do you find that you lose any coordination or clear-headedness like you might on alcohol?

[Maurice]

This thread is really good, very informative. Thanks Maurice.

Do you find that you lose any coordination or clear-headedness like you might on alcohol?

With tea, yes, some loss of coordination, just like ethanol, not as much though, dont drive on this herb.

with snorting no.

The herb does not seem to effect clear-headedness, and definitely does not effect vestibular system.

[sandalwood]

I am convinced that the major active component of lagochilus is not the purported lagochilin material that has been sold for a few years.

the reason being...bioassay of lagochilus inebrians has always produced a light sedative effect when taken orally...

but lagochilin insuffilated, held sublingual, taken orally, and vaporized barely did anything for me..if anything, slight sedative activity...

the whole plant material seemed stronger to me...even in doses relatively small...around a few grams.

I took almost 400 milligrams of lagochilin and noticed very little.

one of the plants sold to me as lagochilus inebrians in the beginning, according to siebert, most likely cephelaria gigantea, produced a hard waxy extract that was more interesting to me than the lagochilus material that became avialable soon after.

[planthelper]

i think you could be onto something there sandal!

a person told me that there "pure lago" didn't do anything either for them even in high doses,

but for me, home made resin and even just home grown leaves often produced good results.

one time, i even had a bit of a "bong flash" from using lago resin.

aswell, it seemed to me that a bit of alcohol might had a good synergy with lago.

you are lucky maurice, as you obviously live in a climat which suits lago cultivation.

i only grew it once, and my local climat did not go well, with this plant.

i would not be surprised, if some people stopped trying to cultivate this plant, because they heard of reports saying that it produced hardly any effects even with the pure alakaloid, and i guess i was one of them...

hey, this info sparks my interresst with lago again!

[Maurice]

I just harvested fresh, dried and shredded, resulted in .25 grams of crystalline structure,

insufflated, resulted in much more intense experience c.f. older material.

IMO the crystals recovered after processing raw herb, are the trichomes.

This is not synthetic lagochilin, but represents the essence of natural processing, cosisting

of at least lagochilin, lagochilin-3-ac acetate, & lagochilin tetraacetate, see here-

http://www.sagewisdom.org/lagochilus.html

[Zen Peddler]

what do you reckon that stuff does to your blood pressure??

[mescalito]

Very interesting indeed,I still have a little Lago left that I got from Planthelper years ago.I've always kept it in the fridge in black film canister.

My initial findings were via smoking in a cigarette or on top of a herb through water.I feel that the tobacco potentiates the lago as mentioned above by PH too.

I found that there was also an Anti-histamine effect far superior to otc tablets, and almost instant relief tho short lived compared to the chems that dry your mouth up etc.

Funnily enough I made a snuff too mixing Damiana,Lago and Sceletium....very nice.

Now to get some plants or seedsB)

[Maurice]

Lago lowers BP.

I enjoy nicotine after a snuff, there seems to be potentiation.

I'm not surprised re anti histamine, see Smarthead's comments here http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16830

"Antispasmodic; Haemostatic; Hallucinogenic; Hypotensive; Sedative; Uterine tonic.

The branches are antispasmodic, haemostatic, hallucinogenic, hypotensive and sedative. Infusion is used internally in the treatment of allergies and the shrub has been used to treat skin disorders. "

Re growing, I reckon SW slopes NSW should be fine. I'm at 1100 m above sea level, with bitterly cold winters, snow, heavy frosts, etc. I have 6 plants in the ground which are powering along,

and 20 seedlings in pots ready to go in ground in Autumn. Lago is not a pot culture plant, needs to be in ground.

See my comments about purchase of seed in this thread.

[mescalito]

Well there ya go after all these years I thought I was the only one who picked out this trait.Thought I was mad I did I did ;-)

It only takes a pinch to stop itching and tickly cough huh wow.

Thanks Maurice will definitely be planting this one.

[Maurice]

I picked a single flower this morning and chewed it, (not swallowed).

It has the characteristic bitter taste of Lago.

It is potently active, and incredibly, is active via buccal mucosa.

Furthermore, I have black ants crawling over the flowers,

I am confident they are pollinating!

[planthelper]

i bump this as i think, it's a very informative thread, about a not often discussed herb and plant.

anyway, a few weeks ago, i found some lagochilus seeds which i thought i had lost.

being the right time of the year to germ than, i did put around 18 seeds down...

the tray with the small pots was kept in the fridge for most of the time (i'm soo lucky to be single) and after i guess 3 weeks or a bit more, two seedlings have emerged!!

my mood was sour that day but once i spotted the tiny babies, i was transfered into an elated mood!

i have grown one time lago befor, and i don't think my location suits lagohilus cultivation all year round, but in my dreams i would even try to build a cold house, so i can grow cold climat ethnos.

so cold stratification is the key to success when starting out growing lago.

[ENtiTY]

I have some seeds in my collection as well. Had no luck last time I attempted germinating but this thread has motivated me to give em another go. Will chuck them in the fridge for a week or 2 and see how things go.

[planthelper]

if you live in qld, i would use the fridge methode,

but i know of one case where somebody managed to germ them outdoors over the winter time, in a location which has some frosts and cold winters.