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Hello all,

 

A friend recently expressed concern about their relationship with alcohol (Not frequent but self medicated)

Their issue stems from mental health problems mainly their inability to reach certain emotions and feelings that they once could (Feelings they feel while intoxicated)

ANYWAY

I told her about natural MAOIs and she was interested, first with Syrian Rue and thought maybe Passiflora Incarnata would be a milder (Easier to grow and ingest) approach.

How would alcohol react with the MAOIs in P. Incarnata if she were to drink with the medicine in her system?

I would love to hear stories of people using incarnata to help remedy mental health issues

 

Thank you all so much for your time - it means a lot 

 

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nice thought, but I say no,

maoi and alc are not a good mix.

but can be awesome!!! :uzi::wub::wub:

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Mixing the two won't do much serious harm (most likely) but what's the point of taking harmalas if you don't stop the booze? Alcohol dulls the edges of everything.

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^ i'm guessing that stopping the booze (ie. entirely) is probably something a little further down the track.  one wobbly step at a time.

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2 hours ago, Glaukus said:

Mixing the two won't do much serious harm (most likely) but what's the point of taking harmalas if you don't stop the booze? Alcohol dulls the edges of everything.

 

1 hour ago, SayN said:

^ i'm guessing that stopping the booze (ie. entirely) is probably something a little further down the track.  one wobbly step at a time.

Basically the idea is to bring back some emotion without intoxication thus hopefully leading to the desire to drink less (Or at least for the reasons she used to) 

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8 hours ago, withdrawl clinic said:

nice thought, but I say no,

maoi and alc are not a good mix.

but can be awesome!!! :uzi::wub::wub:

Can be awesome?!

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Passiflora incarnata has a really low beta-carboline content and hence the MAOI effect from such, if that's what you're seeking, is likely not relevant at typical doses. There does seem to be a more noted putative GABAergic component through the flavonoids - that's what I'd be more worried about interacting with the alcohol eg. potentiation (possibly also leading to disinhibition and even more drinking). I don't mind it as a mild mental health tool

 

It's a nice enough plant to use but generally mild for someone used to 'intoxication' and probably with a baseline of some mental distress etc. I used to frequently brew up solid (25g) doses but eventually settled on a blend like lemon balm, chamomile and passionflower as more a subtler calm tea at more typical doses. Some people I know who had more typical brains found it sedating at much lower doses. For me, it was mainly a way of displacing drinking/craving onto something healthier but you can bring an emotional/spiritual level to any tea through a more ceremonial aspect and use it as an exercise in mindfulness.

I looked for emotion-enhancing plants, that's one aspect I also liked to self-medicate. Thing is, the more you seek something external to enhance/modulate emotions, the worse things can get and the longer they'll likely persist. I ended up super, extra dysregulated through seeking 'emotional improvements' through even mild plants too often. The mere act of some novelty and hope can drive quite a potent - and at times healing - placebo response. If the expectation 'taking something'  will help improve the emotional world of this person exists, it's quite likely there will be some of that with any option, just the belief can be powerful. It's worth utilising that belief in oneself and the mildest options available to drive a beneficial response IMO.

Lately, I've come to see it's more shifting actions - doing - positively that can drive a better emotional landscape. If you can, get your friend growing some herbal plant allies, relating to them, nurturing them,  crafting medicine/cooking with them etc more than taking them. Derive an emotional relationship with the plant more holistically, more so than  seeking an emotional outcome of consuming a plant

 

I wouldn't say discount some herbs like Passiflora as options, I would try to limit alcohol with it and start low

 Even something like Ashwagandha could be useful. It's one that seems quite promising for such things. Can send some seeds if you get interested.

 

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11 hours ago, Alchemica said:

Passiflora incarnata has a really low beta-carboline content and hence the MAOI effect from such, if that's what you're seeking, is likely not relevant at typical doses. There does seem to be a more noted putative GABAergic component through the flavonoids - that's what I'd be more worried about interacting with the alcohol eg. potentiation (possibly also leading to disinhibition and even more drinking). I don't mind it as a mild mental health tool

  

It's a nice enough plant to use but generally mild for someone used to 'intoxication' and probably with a baseline of some mental distress etc. I used to frequently brew up solid (25g) doses but eventually settled on a blend like lemon balm, chamomile and passionflower as more a subtler calm tea at more typical doses. Some people I know who had more typical brains found it sedating at much lower doses. For me, it was mainly a way of displacing drinking/craving onto something healthier but you can bring an emotional/spiritual level to any tea through a more ceremonial aspect and use it as an exercise in mindfulness.

I looked for emotion-enhancing plants, that's one aspect I also liked to self-medicate. Thing is, the more you seek something external to enhance/modulate emotions, the worse things can get and the longer they'll likely persist. I ended up super, extra dysregulated through seeking 'emotional improvements' through even mild plants too often. The mere act of some novelty and hope can drive quite a potent - and at times healing - placebo response. If the expectation 'taking something'  will help improve the emotional world of this person exists, it's quite likely there will be some of that with any option, just the belief can be powerful. It's worth utilising that belief in oneself and the mildest options available to drive a beneficial response IMO.

Lately, I've come to see it's more shifting actions - doing - positively that can drive a better emotional landscape. If you can, get your friend growing some herbal plant allies, relating to them, nurturing them,  crafting medicine/cooking with them etc more than taking them. Derive an emotional relationship with the plant more holistically, more so than  seeking an emotional outcome of consuming a plant

 

I wouldn't say discount some herbs like Passiflora as options, I would try to limit alcohol with it and start low

 Even something like Ashwagandha could be useful. It's one that seems quite promising for such things. Can send some seeds if you get interested.

 

 

The placebo effect might be all it takes. Its not up to me to decide if the problem is caused but over analysis of the situation or not.

Either way i can't ignore it.

A weekend can easily be set aside for testing Incarnata or other MAOIs safely.

I have looked into Ashwagandha and that sound great, much better for this kind of situation. I'll PM you about it soon :)

- Thanks so much, i never get tired of reading what you have to say about these subjects 

 

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There was an interesting study done on how different people respond to this medicine

 

In chronic illness, what type of person are you, does it alter how you respond to a herbal medicine?


Patients' experiences attributed to the use of Passiflora incarnata: A qualitative, phenomenological study


While results of studies point to the effectiveness of the therapeutic use of Passiflora incarnata for nervous restlessness, generalized anxiety disorder, insomnia, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, presurgery anxiety and menopausal symptoms, does it matter how you approach the medicine? There seems to be a fundamental aspect in responders: resetting of priorities in life and the new focus on personal growth

 

Do you have a high degree of interest in personal growth and in overcoming your illness (Type 1), or more resigned to your condition (Type 2/3)? Do you try and maintain performance orientation (Type 2)

 

"Type 1 patients reported that their chronic illness and its ailments led them to reset their priorities and to make more room for mindfulness and self care in their lives"

Do you reset the priorities in your life (Type 1) or not (Type 2/3)

 

All groups reported that they were frequently "overwhelmed by their daily life", constantly "chewing over everything" and "finding it difficult to distance themselves from overthinking"

Interestingly, Type 1 have the best responses to a herbal medicine like Passiflora. Type 3 "did not experience something specific that they related to the use of Passiflora incarnata". Type 2 had some level of calmness.

 

Type 1 patients attained "calmness" while using Passiflora incarnata. Moreover, they reported having a "better foundation" and "being more centered". With Passiflora incarnata,they thought that they were generally better able to "let things go" and felt more "patient" and "calm".

 

"Passiflora, I feel, is providing me with a better foundation for these changes that have come about or that have started. I feel that I am on different ground here, that my new steps on this different ground are somehow more solid. That is, I am not perpetually racking my brain anymore. Therefore, I am not that unstable any more...in everything. That is what I identify with Passiflora."

 

I was able "to take a step back and look at things" now

 

"In the past, I was lived, but now I am living" I suffer "less from anxiety" with Passiflora incarnata. I am surprised that my anxiety "almost does not exist anymore"

 

http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.jep.2018.11.022

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