tales from the amazon

[Jack]

Thought some of you may all find this of interest. The following is an from an email that i just recieved this morning from a good friend of mine from Melb who is in south america. he has had no experience with plant halluciongens,

hey kids,

ed and i are up at the equator in iquitos (in peru, right on the border with colombia and brasil) and experiencing heat like we have never felt before. nothing much else one can do but swing in your hammock and drink... and we love it! our room overlooks the amazon river and this floating shanty town called Belen. this is easily the strangest place i have ever been. the city has a population of 700,000, but the nearest town is 5 days boat ride from here. and boat or plane are the only ways in or out as there are no roads into iquitos.

surreal place. 7 out of 8 children born here are female. they say it is because of this jungle fruit they eat which is high in estrogen. the girls all have big tits and booties and are really aggressive which scares us sometimes. while the few men here are kinda femenine with all the estrogen. weird. can´t figure it out.

we ventured out into the jungle for 3 days over the weekend. amazing experience. people have no electricity or running water, simply living off the river and out of the jungle. we stayed with an indian family in their hut, eating the way they eat and all the rest. fish heads and rice was the meal one night. didn´t eat too much that day. we went fishing for pirahna from our canoe. easy little suckers to catch. all you do is slap the water with your rod over and over again as loudly as possible. then, you dunk your line in and they start attacking the meat. we caught quite a few. there teeth are crazy sharp. the guide put his knife in its mouth and it grabbed on hard, grinding the metal.

visited various indian tribes. the ones with big bones in their ears and stuff. the women, topless, and in grass skirts. traded my gum boots on the last day for a ton of jewlery. the weirdest thing was, they whisper when they talk to you. so softly that you can´t even hear them.

had a bad experience on the last night though. (mum and dad, you may want to skip over this next part) the village shaman came to our hut with an offering of this hallucenagenic drink. he had been preparing it all day from a root in the jungle. this guy was a freak! before we began we chilled out and asked him a few questions. he told us he had learned medicine though his dreams and by taking hallucinagenic plants. the trees guided him though the junlge for 8 months. then, one night, the trees gave him two books (yes, in his dream!), one red and one black. he was to choose one of the books. one was bad and the other good. he has the good book at his hut. so, finally we went through the whole ceromony. he starts by blessing the drink by chanting and blowing these rum and pure tabacco cigars over it. then you skull it down, which tasted like cigar juice. then, he blows out the lamp and you are left in pitch darkness. the shaman, is playing this weird flute thing really softly as you get all hot and start to trip out. hard! the next thing i knew the shaman´s eyes are glowing and floating out in front of his face. then, one by one we start to feel sick and vomit. why? because this plant is poisonous to the human body, but supposedly good for the spirit. they believe it is a medicine that purifies the body and mind by ridding it of all its contents. it was not a pleasant experience at all. we spend the next 3 hours tripping like crazy, throwing up and feeling damn near close to death. all the while the shaman is chanting and whistling and waving palm branches around. at one point, i ask our guide for some water and an ambulance. he gives me the water and says the shaman will now blow some of the drunk out of my head. but it doesn´t work, and the shaman tells the guide that he can see t he goddess of ayawaska laughing at us. eventually we stop vomitting and just want to pass out. we crawl to out mosquito nets, as no one can come even close to standing up, and try and pass out. happy for it to be over. then, at 4 am, the shaman wakes us up and makes us go to the river to bath, as it is necessary to return to normal the next morning. nasty night, but kinda of funny now that we are almost back to normal. this poor english guy with us had never had any drugs what so ever before. he was losing it bad! the guy will never do them again.

anyway, we are recovering slowly. if we ever see that damn shaman again we will beat him with a stick! i don´t know about you shaman, but when i take drugs i usually like to have a good time!

we spoke to this german couple once back in iquitos about their experience. they too felt horrible. the girl said she thought she was an animal being hunted, and eventually she was hunted down and shot. she said it was the scariest experience of her life. this time, the shaman told them that because the couple had hugged each other at the beginning of the ceremony, that the goddess of ayawaska had become jealous. as she is jealous of love. damn shaman!

anyway, that is the story up until now. the amazon is a crazy and amazing place. i have never felt further from home. nor, have i felt so removed from understanding the culture within which i am living. interesting nonethless.

take care all,

and stay away from the ayawaski!

[This message has been edited by Jack (edited 15 August 2002).]

[RubyTuesday]

"the girls all have big tits and booties and are really aggressive which scares us sometimes."

Hence the term 'Amazon Women'!??

"When we see the shaman again we will beat him with a stick"

LOL!

Thanks for that, very interesting

------------------

http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

[This message has been edited by RubyTuesday (edited 15 August 2002).]

[Noveltea]

Interesting.

I hope ure friend can maintain some respect for the plant teachers. There are very deep waters out there.

With an attitude of "...but when i take drugs i usually like to have a good time!"

no wonder the spirit was "..laughing at us"!

I aim to get over there myself next year

[woof woof woof]

Ehhh, the vomit vomit feel bad part sounds very familiar.

That story kind of gives me the travel bugs... I won't scratch and slip to get a stinky pinky though.

[Auxin]

Moral of the story:

Shamans- When you learn drug recepies in your dreams find a tourist to test it on first just in case its dangerous (but watch out for a tourist with a stick!)

Tourists- Bring your own dope so you don't become a shamans guinea pig!

When going through customs stick your blotter in a bible and pray, pray, pray

[Guest Mesqualero]

Sounds like a normal Ayahuasca experience from what i have read, obviously some people really don't have a clue what they are getting themselves into... If u want to have a good time take some MDMA ...

[coin]

hehe

"In 1991, a survey conducted in Sydney found that 80% of those who tried

Ecstasy thought that it was fun to use while 7% did not (13% found it

'neutral')." from "e for ecstasy"..dodgy book but.

[Torsten]

Mesqualero... well said!

[doklikit]

Ayahuasca isn't a drug .We like things tagged and labelled but not with this baby.If you must compare it to a drug and compare it to LSD you might as well compare scotch to a milkshake.You must follow a strict diet before ingestion. You shouldn't be an ego driven white Anglo Saxon male.It is difficult to prepare properly and is selective in whom it effects.It teaches in relation to your quality of reception.The guys are lucky not to have been hurtled through the closed doors of perception shitting and vomiting while being devoured by the combined forces of Hades and hell along with battalions of sabre toothed jaguars and boa constrictors

.

Aya has been used for centuries as a spiritual sacrament . For healing. It can only be treated with respect.

Once you are prepared Aya provides a glimpse of the meaning of life. It gives you insight into what is going on behind the stage curtains .You can peak behind the curtains but not into the dressing rooms.Most humans don't even notice the theatre building.

You may meet much much higher intelligent life,travel to impossible worlds,see mankind in an earth shattering new light,interact with insects and animals,heal emotional and physical damage,see ancients' symbolism and impossible objects,be in a total state of ecstatic divine bliss,experience definite telepathy and more....much more.It is realer than real.The trouble is that it isn't for sale...in other words it's very difficult to bring back and peddle the experience to others.Words become inadequate in almost everyone's experience.

As the man says: R E S P E C T .

the doc

[Torsten]

doklikit - I know that it is best to maintain ayahuasca as a medicine rather than labelling it as a drug. For many reason, especially political ones. Personally I find LSD and many other 'drugs' also have plenty of medicine value and our drug label is arbitrary and deceptive. But just like LSD, ayahuasca can be a barrel of fun. Personally I have gotten over purging many years ago (and yes, I know many believe this to be an integral part of ayahuasca, but I think it should be personal choice). So I take an antinauseant, which means the set for my trip is always MUCH more positive. It also allows me to take ayahuasca as a social drug (puking isn't very social) and after a few dozen trips I was quite comfortable to take it at what I regard as my contemporary ceremonies - ie, raves.

Not that this is generally recommended, but with the right friends and plenty of prior experience, there really is NO reason why not. So does this make ayahuasca a drug?? Hmmm, I really don't care

Ayahuasca is bigger than all of us & bigger than the system that tries to suppress it.

[doklikit]

Torsten I am starting to wonder if you might be from a "higher place"...your superhuman stamina continues to amaze us mortals.There would be a handful of people in the world capable of taking Aya and interacting at a rave but having said that I guess the native Amazon gatherings are simply their rave in another coat.

I agree with all you said in your last comment ,especially that "our" (certainly not yours or mine or most sane people's ) drug labelling is arbitary and deceptive.The question is do "legal" drug sellers such as the multinationals cause more harm than good on this planet?I certainly think so.

I can only add for others sake that minimalising the purge is also helped through thorough filtering to remove sediment, as does letting the brew settle in the fridge for a few days in a mason jar and again pouring off all but the bottom sediment.

doklikit

[Torsten]

Originally posted by doklikit:

Torsten I am starting to wonder if you might be from a "higher place"...your superhuman stamina continues to amaze us mortals.

It's a dangerous statement, but ...... I think almost anyone can do it. Many of my friends never had the psychological barriers that people have about ayahuasca these days simply because they knew nothing about it initially and trusted me. My positive image of it led them into a positive trip. To us it was 'all good' . This is not to diminish the importance of ayahuasca, but I think many of the 'bad' experiences have a lot to do with the exaggerated preparations, warnings and MAOI paranoia (I know people who have had MAO crises on the basis of something that can not possibly cause a MAO crisis - it's often all in the mind).

There would be a handful of people in the world capable of taking Aya and interacting at a rave but having said that I guess the native Amazon gatherings are simply their rave in another coat.

I am glad you stated the second part. And as such I think once an individual is 100% comfortable with his surroundings in the contemporary ritual, then they will likely cope with such a demanding trip. I think the main problem is that many of us are simply not 100% comfortable with our friends and surroundings. I would estimate the number of people MUCH higher. In fact as I pointed out above, I don't think it is anythign special at all. I don't think it has much to do with the 'drug' but simply with the set and setting. At the time when I was doing this there was at least a handful of people doing it with us.

Ayahuasca in the city is not wihtout danger though. One day a friend of mine decided he was going to leave a private party and move on to a large party at the metro (sydney). He made it in the door and to the toilets where he puked severely. The physical stress and the bright lights of that particular facility had some strange effects on him and he quickly left. He spent the next 4 hours 'taking the green', ie walking all over sydney always taking the green light so that he wouldn't have to stop. This should not be a scare story about taking ayahuasca at raves (could have happened anywhere), but rather a warning to ALWAYS have friends with you (one is rarely enough).

I really wonder how many people take ayahuasca at raves these days. I know there were a few people quite a few years ago, but then the whole scene moved almost entirely towards MDMA and speed. There are a few people doing ayahuasca at the parties around Byron Bay, but that's a bit different anyway. I think that most who use it would probably not be very open about their use as there is so much moralising about taking sacraments in frivolous situations. I feel this is another form of arbitrary discrimination.

One intrepid tripper once told me that "the difference between having fun at a rave and having a spiritual experience at a rave is the quality of your LSD". This certainly isn't gospel, but nonetheless often not far from the truth.

[WarpedAstro]

"One intrepid tripper once told me that "the difference between having fun at a rave and having a spiritual experience at a rave is the quality of your LSD". This certainly isn't gospel, but nonetheless often not far from the truth."

I will have to agree with that "intrepid tripper"......in some ways...

anyway...excuse me Torsten....

I am just curious how do you prepare your Aya, I have read several different receipes and methods on many websites, I am just curious how you prepare yours for information purposes of course... I have no plans to consume it, not my area, just curious for "reading enteritainment"

cheers WA

[Torsten]

Originally posted by WarpedAstro:

I am just curious how do you prepare your Aya

In the mid 90's originally I only had access to crude acacia extract, so I would make a 'tea' from 5g peganum, drink this and then take the tryptamines in capsule form. This was probably the way I took the majority of session. Then I spent a few months in Europe where both synthetic dmt and pure harmaline were 'freely' available. Mimosa hostilis was also the preferred natural source there at the time. Again, I would try to take it as pure as I could obtain it. I have tried almost every way of preparing or combining it that I know.

I haven't done ayahuasca for a few years, however I guess hypothetically these days I would opt for caapi and psychotria done as a traditional brew (definitely with antinauseant). For the beginner the crude acacia extract may be the easiest way to go - with the peganum seeds.

Naturally all of this happened in places where it was legal and is only recommended for such places.

[doklikit]

Adding to Torsten's post this comes from twelve months of daily reading the Ayahuasca Forums and several preparations which have sorted the problems encountered. And there have been a few.

.

Firstly Ayahuasca can be made from many different sources so it depends on what they are . Assuming it's B. Caapi and Viridis leaf the muriatic acid (or HCL) prep is the best as it almost doubles the strength of the mix. The ayahuasca forum site has hundreds of pages on this if you like detail . In fact this site has been exceptional with some pretty clever and experienced guys having a say.

Now my written info on this is elsewhere and please double check this on the site but this is the easiest and most effective way to go for the standard Ayahuasca brew.

1. 25-30g of B.Caapi per person. Put it ,well broken up by hand scissors or whatever it takes,in a Pyrex dish (never metal).Add 10 to 15 drops of HCL (swimming pool HCL Farmer Direct WA)per cup of distilled water. Cover the Caapi with the water. Boil or simmer for anything from 15 mins to a night depending on your time schedule . Water must be distilled or spring water .

2.Say you do a 15 minute boil. Pour off this through a filter such as a cotton shirt into another glass container.Add enough new distilled water to just cover the original Caapi again and boil 15 mins again and filter off into the same glass container that you poured the 1st lot into. (no need to add acid again although some do).

3. Repeat again a third time with new distilled water to the original Caapi and pour off again so that now the glass container has the three pour off's in it.

4. Boil this mix of the three boiling down to half a glass and filter again. Put in fridge.

5.Now do the same exactly with the Viridis leaf 25-30g's per person.

If you have time leave sit in the fridge for a day or three and filter off again leaving any sediment behind and this should eliminate the purging.If no time then that's OK as it should still be pretty purge free.Drink the Caapi boil about half an hour or so before the Viridis boil.

This is the simplified version but works.There are alternatives with coca cola or lemon juice.There are a large number of different ingredients that can also be used.You shouldn't be currently on any pharmacy type medications to cut a long story short, but again look at the Ayahuasca site.

Hope this helps a bit.

doc

[WarpedAstro]

Ta doklikit....

Torsten.... a wizard I know wishes to know bit more about these anti-nauseant,if the wizard wishes to get some, does he need a doc's precription?? if not, what brand/name are these anti-nauseants you can get from the chemist?? wonders if they will be useful if the wizard wishes to consume some cacti....??

cheers again Dok and Torsten... WA

[Torsten]

Originally posted by doklikit:

Assuming it's B. Caapi and Viridis leaf the muriatic acid (or HCL) prep is the best as it almost doubles the strength of the mix.

While HCl is a good acid to use, the shortcomings of extraction with other acids or no acids can be overcome at the gain of not having to drink something even more disgusting than it already is. HCl is good cos it is the same as what you have in your tummy, but it tastes real bad, especially if you put a few drops to many in it.

The main problem with copying traditionla recipes is that we don't. We usually try to improvise and this is where most of the shortfalls are. For example, tradtionally HUGE quantities of water are used for the initial boil. After the extraction this is then reduced to a fraction of what we started with. Westeners, smart as we are, figured why use so much water if we just boil it all off anyway. So lets use less water. problem with this is that DMT freebase is slightly soluble in water. Slightly meaning you will need about 1 to 2 liters of water to extract one dose. But as there are also other things dissolved, you probably need much more than this. So by starting with less water you are already missing out on a lot of alkaloids.

Adding an acid is good for almost any aqueous alkaloid extraction. Lime juice usually suffices and tastes a hell of a lot better.

The recipe you posted seems VERY low on both ingredients. In fact the caapi doesn't sound like it is enough to cause full inhibition. Also, this recipe seems very much orientated at the tryptamine effect rather than the caapi effect. Most traditional recipes favour the caapi by many times, thus giving a heavier (mentally and physically) and more spiritual trip rather than just kaleidoscopic entertainment

[doklikit]

The recipe you posted seems VERY low on both ingredients.

I agree again . This recipe is the suggested amount for "beginners" and was posted as such in the interest of not scaring the living daylights out of an unsuspecting novice .Oneself titled "hardhead' suggests 100g's of Caapi per person and again with something as important as this it's worth looking at the Ayahuasca Forum site to get a feel for where you (the average consumer) fit in .For me probably 60-80g's if I was to go there.Our friends at Medicine Garden might suggest an Aya pack with Caapi around the 25g mark which might work for the sensitive traveller and certainly would be unlikely to create any major difficulties (or pleasantries).Still it's surprising just how often this 30gCaapi/30gViridis combo does come up .Maybe the yanks are only a "mid -strength " nation at best!

the doc

[Guest Thelema]

as liberal as I am, I have a question that may pique...

when raves are described as our culture's "traditional ceremonies" in support of an analogy with traditional ayahuasca ceremonies, I cannot help but baulk a little. For instance:

1) where is the concentrated reverence? is one not lost among the lights and bodies?

2) how to let the wisdom speak in such an environment?

To put it clearly, if attending a rave is NOT a mundane environment to put ayahuasca to use, then what environment IS?

[Torsten]

doklikit, I think the best approach is to go high on the caapi/MAOI as this is where most trips fail. A higher MAO inhibition will not cause any extra problems or a stronger trip. maybe just a tad longer, but that's about it.

The thing to dose in stages and more carefully would be the tryptamine carrier. In fact taking a minimum and then 'topping up' (smoking it is good) is always a good idea.

Originally posted by Thelema:

when raves are described as our culture's "traditional ceremonies" in support of an analogy with traditional ayahuasca ceremonies

I don't claim that they are an analogy to traditional ceremonies. They are our contemporary ritual (for those who like it), but don't need to draw any relevance from traditional ceremonies of other cultures.

Let me put this another way. If you try to send a romantic love message, would you send a dozen camels, or do you send a bunch of flowers & chocolates? The former is traditional, ancient, respected and ..... completely inappropriate in our culture. It would be merely a copy of another culture without any relevance to our culture.

1) where is the concentrated reverence? is one not lost among the lights and bodies?

not at all. Much of the enlightening stuff goes on in your own head without any relevance to other people. The lights and music become a part of you rather than being an outside imposition. The other people are there for comfort, smiles and motivation. The relevancenand reverence is the celebration of life, love, fun and trance/exstacy - the same elements as many traditional ceremonies. Please keep in mind that many traditional ceremonies are not just one-on-one shamanic healing rituals, but also large group rituals where having a good time and giving thanks to those elements I listed just before (ie their gods).

2) how to let the wisdom speak in such an environment?

how does the wisdom speak when 50 people are squealing, jumping, crying, singing wearing funny clothes, and generally acting in their own world while moving to syncopated rhythms?? no, I was not describing a rave, but rather the traditional ceremony.....

To put it clearly, if attending a rave is NOT a mundane environment to put ayahuasca to use, then what environment IS?

Movies. I cannot recommend ayahuasca at the movies. They are so slow moving and boring while 'out there'. (quite in contrast to LSD really, which is heaps of fun at the movies). I took it at 'Opera in the domain' once too and didn't like it.

I understand where you are coming from. For most people on the outside looking in, the rave is a dull, uneventful, monotonous situation. For those on the inside it is full of life, love, mindblowing experiences and MUSIC. This is not an elitist or discriminatory statement!! Please consider this. A person who does not have any affinity to classical music could not possibly appreciate an opera or concert, however someone on the inside will wait for every change in tempo, every favourite song and every new players with great anticipation, followed by joy and excitement. Ditto for the rave. We know the music, the DJ's, the lights, the acts. We anticipate every change and are filled with exstacy (no, not ecstasy) in the progression of it. On top of that comes the drug experience, which adds whole new dimensions to the music (often only possible at the volume it is played at raves). It is the total synaethesia submersion effect you could never experience while standing on the edge looking in.

I could ramble on for hours about this as I have thought about it much over the years, but without drawing constant analogies to a field relevant to you, I doubt you can ever actually understand the experience, just like I will never understand how someone can sit still for 5 hours of classical music (and I actually like classical)

One analogy I often give is sport. For me there is nothing more mundane than things like watching tennis or marathon runners. But it is obvious that there are masses who do appreciate this - masses who are on the inside.

[WarpedAstro]

Originally typed by dok:

"Our friends at Medicine Garden"

I think they are bit pricey..I am sure they have their own resons, I mean they got 20g of Psychotria for $44.00 and 50g of caapi for $22.00, it's bit pricey, I am sure it might be cheaper some people will rather buy some tabs/trips from their local dealer than a legal herbal supplier.....???? I don't understand how they are so expensive, bit above my price range if I was buying herbs....

[woof woof woof]

Agree with WarpedA, A trip chokes my chicken just as good as Aya.

But having variety on the other hand is very nice.

[jetblack]

 

 

Psychotria for $44.00 and 50g of caapi for $22.00

Geez thats a bit pricey. Better off growing your own Psychotria, but is there anywhere to get seeds/cuttings for the caapi? or at least cheaper prices than at medicine garden. I mean, $88 for 15cm, thats way too expensive

[Guest mandragora]

l

Edited April 17, 2007 by mandragora

[gem]

Originally posted by WarpedAstro:

Ta doklikit....

Torsten.... a wizard I know wishes to know bit more about these anti-nauseant,if the wizard wishes to get some, does he need a doc's precription?? if not, what brand/name are these anti-nauseants you can get from the chemist?? wonders if they will be useful if the wizard wishes to consume some cacti....??

Try going to your GP and let him/her know that you are suffering from chronic migraines - I've had no problems asking for a prescription of Stemetil (Prochlorperazine maleate) to help with nausea associated with migraines.

Good luck : )