9/11: Phone calls from the towers

[synchromesh]

AE911truth.org

Orchestrated litany of lies, someone phrased once...

Engineers can see that the claims don't add up with respect to physics and chemistry. There's also a pilots for 911 truth because the claims made with respect to the flying in those types of aircraft is impossible. Maybe the real criminals responsible think when the economy collapses, people will take their minds off the 911 lies.

 

The latest one is U.S. Military Officers for 9/11 Truth. Then you've also got these:

http://pl911truth.com

http://io911truth.com

http://v911t.org

http://rl911truth.org

http://firefightersfor911truth.org

http://l911t.com

http://mp911truth.org

http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org

http://stj911.org

http://www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org

http://mediafor911truth.org

Trendsetters the lot of 'em!

[The Dude]

Botanica. The thing with such terrorist acts and assasinations is they are organised in secret, therefore there is a conspiracy, and it seems it was facilitated by the government/media given their lack of transparency and just outright obvious lies .. ie: a car found with one of the terrorists I.D's and a "how to fly" book - I mean come on! Or that jet fuel can vaporise a plane but somehow they can find passports, I think as one of the planes flew past one of the terrorists threw their passport out the window and it just happened to land at a police officers feet, I mean that's how ridiculous some of the "evidence" coming out at the time was. Then there's the dodginess of them only releasing 3 frames or so of the 'plane' that hit the pentagon and the other footage being confiscated. The planted evidence and lack of real evidence stinks of an inside job, the system is rotten.

The lack of transparency in the investigation, the lack of accountability for how and why the buildings collapsed as in a controlled demolition style, with the tell tale traces of thermite, and the inability for the administration to ever answer these questions is proof enough of a shady conspiracy, let alone the context of needing a 'catalysing' event to propel america into a new war, I mean their whole economy seems based on plundering through wars.

Now if the history of government conspiracies working with corporate and military interests, as stated on the record isn't enough to have you at least second guessing the official story...

Not to say you must jump to the first semblance of order in the swirling chaos, then you'd believe the official version that it's all to do with a jealousy of western democracy. I mean that's logical, that seems to make sense if I want to jump to conclusions without looking deeper.

If I look deeper I see that yes, the desperate will blow themselves up for their cause. Yes there is a deep seated hatred of the American Imperial machine - which is exploited by them as they need an enemy. Training terrorists is more than telling them how to fight, it's telling them who to fight and why and becomes a self perpetuating brainwashing cycle. The harder these resistance fighters smack their heads against a wall, or try to blow it up, the more resources the empire can demand of its populations for increased security and build an even bigger wall and prison system for all.

"I don't believe anything, but I have my suspicions"

None of this is conclusive, yet it's implied as strongly as a sledgehammer to the face. If you can't feel that subtle nudge then you've made a conscious effort to wrap your intuition with layers of bubble wrap. Sure it's better to accept uncertainty because nothing is conclusive, nothing is, it's just a [un]convincing suggestion we play along with. Who ever suggested we play this game can get fucked!

I try to use logic to connect the dots. Chi bono? Seems to apply. I'm sure all these royal bloodlines don't care about the suffering of their "own" people. For they are just beasts of burden in the end.

Darren Brown is pop culture conspiracy theory, disinformation and a general misrepresentation of what's going on from what I gather.

I think that to many of us here who have exploded past the confines of our regular realities will know to take any reality construct made up in our own minds with a grain of salt and are hopefully more critical of a ready made conspiracy answer.

Maybe a side benefit these psychopaths enjoy is that these conspiracies attract the attention (and manifesting powers) of intelligent and conscientious people that will get so absorbed in the details of investigation and the emotional fix of "oh its just so unfair the bastards" that they're recruiting the best intentioned people to manifest their nightmare, just by flooding their perception with such memes.

...maybe

*sigh*

It's good to know these theories so long as you're not negatively effected emotionally. I think that there is the double edged sword of such research. It could potentially liberate us from these manipulators or just manipulate us some more.

Edited October 1, 2010 by The Dude

[The Dude]

"America, the Greatest Country God ever gave Man, was built on three bedrock principles: Freedom. Liberty. And Fear -- that someone might take our Freedom and Liberty. But now, there are dark, optimistic forces trying to take away our Fear"

Keep Fear Alive

[ref1ect1ons]

i dont believe in conspiricy theories at all and if i start to even entertain the thought i like to refer back to my favourite dictionary and my favourite dictionary contains this

http://skepdic.com/911conspiracy.html

I went to that site and found this little gem.

The obvious error of the 9/11 deniers is in failing to falsify the claim that 9/11 was planned and executed by 19 Islamic soldiers at war with the United States and directed by Osama bin Laden. --Bob Carroll

Lets see if I can falsify this claim. If the hijackers were alive, then how could have they have flown the plane into the world trade.

 

 

Not only that, but you just look at them. They fell at free fall.

How can anyone argue with my nano-thermite paper with nothing more than " i dont believe in conspiracy theories" well thats all well and good BUT how do you explain the finding of nano-thermite in world trade dust. SERIOUSLY how did it get there if the "hijacker" scenario is correct.

Give me one explanation. The easter bunny put it there, whatever you fukin believe. Give me a plausible explantion for this and how it fits the absurd "official story".

My challenge to all you sharp and conventional thinkers.

Nano-thermite CANNOT be mnade in a cave. The dust was analysed and they found nano-thermite = explosive charges made by american or israeli technology. At the very least, it was made by a highly sophisticated lab in a first world country.

Edited October 1, 2010 by ref1ect1ons

[santiago]

if i was going to jump in the deep end and start to believe that the conspiricy theory is true which im not saying it is........then i would entertain the thought that it was planned in the 60's with the cold war, the towers were built in such a way that they would self distruct via a intricate network of preplanned explosives......when the time was right, maybe something was planned for the future, maybe if america got taken over...america would have a little suprise via a twin tower demolition button, perhaps the planes which were real and unforseen accidentally triggered this weird kinda kamikaze security system, surely USA would have measures in place already for a successful invasion of their own country by another country.

[bℓσωηG]

Ahmadinejad makes a good point in that video, even if the American government's position on Sept. 11th is correct (i.e. it was done by Middle Eastern terrorists with no assistance from any part of the U.S. government), how does that justify the forceful occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan for around 10 years (and most likely Iran at some point)? I remember watching the news unfold in the months after Sept. 11th, Bush said America had a "quiet, unyielding anger". They started off bombing Afghanistan, supposedly to get Bin Laden, then somehow that went on to "Shock and Awe" in Iraq, and it skipped over to getting Sadam Hussein (for ostensibly humanitarian reasons), and the whole thing now seems to be to "bring democracy and peace to the Middle East" (Ministry of Peace??). I don't know how many people have been killed or injured, or how many families have been destroyed in the past 10 years (both in the Middle East and America + supporting nations), but the fact that Sept. 11th was used as justification for nearly a decade of war is simply wrong, regardless of who carried it out.

War is wrong and is never justified....

Zionists really do have a strangle hold upon politics around the world... but I personally believe their real objective is to establish military bases in the middle east from which to launch future attacks on China and Russia .

Iran works closely with China sharing resources, and well they also just dont care for Moslems in general .

The middle east conflicts , the muslim this, muslim that, is all just a distraction from the '' big picture'' to destroy the rising economic super power of China. But anyway Bush, Cheny , Condoleezza etc... should be in fuckin jail!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFd1Wi53kWk

[bℓσωηG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erH1nHK29YQ

[Slybacon]

Interesting topic, there has been alot of talk about underground nukes as well, and not mini nukes but actual full scale underground nuclear fusion of the rock bed under ground zero. I don't really know what to make of the info I have, but maybe some of you guys will appreciate it. To tell you the truth I haven't had time to read it but the photos didn't say nuke to me. I'd like to hear from someone who has more time to go threw it.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/c0cmi2

[botanika]

Botanica. The thing with such terrorist acts and assasinations is they are organised in secret, therefore there is a conspiracy, and it seems it was facilitated by the government/media given their lack of transparency and just outright obvious lies .. ie: a car found with one of the terrorists I.D's and a "how to fly" book - I mean come on! Or that jet fuel can vaporise a plane but somehow they can find passports, I think as one of the planes flew past one of the terrorists threw their passport out the window and it just happened to land at a police officers feet, I mean that's how ridiculous some of the "evidence" coming out at the time was. Then there's the dodginess of them only releasing 3 frames or so of the 'plane' that hit the pentagon and the other footage being confiscated. The planted evidence and lack of real evidence stinks of an inside job, the system is rotten.

Now if the history of government conspiracies working with corporate and military interests, as stated on the record isn't enough to have you at least second guessing the official story...

If I look deeper I see that yes, the desperate will blow themselves up for their cause. Yes there is a deep seated hatred of the American Imperial machine - which is exploited by them as they need an enemy. Training terrorists is more than telling them how to fight, it's telling them who to fight and why and becomes a self perpetuating brainwashing cycle. The harder these resistance fighters smack their heads against a wall, or try to blow it up, the more resources the empire can demand of its populations for increased security and build an even bigger wall and prison system for all.

"I don't believe anything, but I have my suspicions"

None of this is conclusive, yet it's implied as strongly as a sledgehammer to the face. If you can't feel that subtle nudge then you've made a conscious effort to wrap your intuition with layers of bubble wrap. Sure it's better to accept uncertainty because nothing is conclusive, nothing is, it's just a [un]convincing suggestion we play along with. Who ever suggested we play this game can get fucked!

I try to use logic to connect the dots. Chi bono? Seems to apply. I'm sure all these royal bloodlines don't care about the suffering of their "own" people. For they are just beasts of burden in the end.

 

No bubble wrap - I'm open to all possibilities but I want to see evidence. If islamic extremists are not responsible whatsoever then it should very easy to travel around places like Afghanistan and Iraq and not get hurt right? If it was a complete inside job and the media is all lies then I think we should all be able to handle a holiday to the autonomous countryside of northern Pakistan yes?? (I mean the last part light-heartedly).

[synchromesh]

If islamic extremists are not responsible whatsoever then it should very easy to travel around places like Afghanistan and Iraq and not get hurt right?

I dunno, how would you feel if your country had been getting carpet bombed for the last 20 years?

[santiago]

i still dont see why its such a stretch of the imagination to believe 0.00000033 of the worlds population gatecrashed and carjacked some planes flew them into some tall buildings at high speed with lotsa fuel, the buildings even tho a few architechs said they would be ok, basically had a floor sliced out, impacted with extreme force and subsequently melted...as per any childs set of building blocks the structure collapsed at its weakest point and then due to the unforseen structural definciency of a modern building collapsed like a pack of cards.

is it really that hard to believe, i reckon the people who did it just hoped to crash into a building and make some terror, then the buildings unfortunately collapsed due to poor workmanship.......maybe those egyptians were onto something, build a structure symetrically and of stone..............and like those little chocolate adds, the structure may outlast civilisation itself.

obviously its a wakeup call to national security, engineers and designers....but thats all there is too it, alot of good people probably died thru the initial impact...........but lost more died due to shoddy workmanship.

[synchromesh]

Can't really help you dude. You've had 9 years to do the smallest amount of research, and you haven't. What else can I say?

[stiched up]

do you have a point syncromesh?? or are you just gonna hang around like a bad smell ??

[synchromesh]

Pfft, look who's talking... What exactly have you offered to this thread, stitched up?

[The Dude]

Buahahahahahaha! ...yes at this point in time that feels like a totally relevant comment to add to this discussion.

Botanica, you're missing my point. Sure there is instability in these places of the world... so what is your point? Arabs are unstable and bad people? The same cause of instability in one part of the world is the cause of our complacent (and stable) consumerism, feeding a headstrong and weakminded race to the edge. The conspiracy transcends any sort of nationalistic allegiances and religious ideologies, these are merely the method of getting every 'side' onside, as those who push such rhetoric don't believe a word they say, but they know you will.

I'm not trying to absolve people of their actions, just saying they were helped. Misguided and desperate peoples with only one option presented them taking that option and enacting chaos and mayhem, yes they carried out terrible acts, but these same agents of chaos are on the payroll of those who save the day with their ordered tyranny, they are indoctrinated, pushed and given the opportunity to strike as they've been taught their whole lives is the way of the world; violence and retribution, and who teaches that might is right if not for all these imperial war machines. The whole thing feeds off itself and finding a singular cause of fault is impossible, may as well blame adam and eve.

The clear cut, well presented and easy to digest version of the truth is what we usually choose to consume because all other food for thought needs preparation, cutting off the fat and added cooking time, plus you got to do it all yourself, tv dinners are just that much easier. Now nobody's going to say there's any less quality in maccas or HJ's they are equally as bad, everyone would agree that home cooked meals are the way to go. It's nobody's fault that people take the easy and convenient option of belief, they're overworked and don't have the time - which again feeds back into the system of growing ignorance and violence.

The structure is built on a swamp, no wonder everybody's sinking. Instead of figuring out who's to blame for such a bad choice of location, laugh at the fools and just move out.

[botanika]

I dunno, how would you feel if your country had been getting carpet bombed for the last 20 years?

 

I imagine it would encourage certain people to become suicide bombers.

I went to that site and found this little gem.

Lets see if I can falsify this claim. If the hijackers were alive, then how could have they have flown the plane into the world trade.

Stolen identity is nothing new.

How can anyone argue with my nano-thermite paper with nothing more than " i dont believe in conspiracy theories" well thats all well and good BUT how do you explain the finding of nano-thermite in world trade dust. SERIOUSLY how did it get there if the "hijacker" scenario is correct.

Give me one explanation. The easter bunny put it there, whatever you fukin believe. Give me a plausible explantion for this and how it fits the absurd "official story".

My challenge to all you sharp and conventional thinkers.

Nano-thermite CANNOT be mnade in a cave. The dust was analysed and they found nano-thermite = explosive charges made by american or israeli technology. At the very least, it was made by a highly sophisticated lab in a first world country.

 

Molten aluminium in the presence of hydrated oxides in concrete, gypsum and rust (all present in the twin towers and planes) has a well known violent thermite reaction. The information spread by conspiracy theories regarding thermite is highly distorted information and perhaps even relies on the gullability that most people in the public have no idea about thermite. The reaction of aluminium with tower materials induced violent thermite explosions, dispersing globules of molten metal and igniting new fires. A typical thermite formulation is not particularly sophisticated and there is no evidence of any sort of military grade thermite being found at the WT site. However planes impacting the towers structure at 200 m/s do create a highly exothermic reaction. Put that together with other fires and how the column and truss structures were designed and eventually damaged and you have a plausible explanation. Additionally the towers did not actually fall at free fall speeds, they fell slower.

Botanica, you're missing my point. Sure there is instability in these places of the world... so what is your point?

The clear cut, well presented and easy to digest version of the truth is what we usually choose to consume because all other food for thought needs preparation, cutting off the fat and added cooking time, plus you got to do it all yourself, tv dinners are just that much easier. Now nobody's going to say there's any less quality in maccas or HJ's they are equally as bad, everyone would agree that home cooked meals are the way to go. It's nobody's fault that people take the easy and convenient option of belief, they're overworked and don't have the time - which again feeds back into the system of growing ignorance and violence.

 

If you dont get my point and you feel I have missed yours should I continue? The point was there is not one shred of evidence the government blew up the World Trade Center.

Are you suggesting the conspiracy theories are well thought out home cooked nutritious meals?? They prepare convincing arguments based on minimal and distorted facts. I would say that is closer to junk food.

From Noam Chomksy: 'One of the major consequences with the 911 (conspiracy) movement is it draws enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. By the "who gains" argument, every power system in the world could be assigned responsibility for 9/11. I think the Bush administration would have had to be utterly insane to try anything like what is alleged, for their own narrow interests, and do not think that serious evidence has been provided to support claims about actions that would not only be outlandish, for their own interests, but that have no remote historical parallel. The effects, however, are all too clear, namely, what I just mentioned: diverting activism and commitment away from the very serious ongoing crimes of state'.

As I said before, I bet the US government loves 911 conspiracies because of what is mentioned above and I bet people like Alex Jones loves it too because he's making a fortune out of it.

From debunking 911:

Conspiracy theorists say this is proof that the administration needed to create a "Pearl Harbor". But if they did blow up the towers, why would they go to such great lengths to point to Bin Laden? Why not fix evidence to point to Saddam? Conspiracy theorists say they needed terrorism to perpetuate an endless war. To take away our freedoms to fight this war. But Bin Laden wasn't the only way to do it. "They" could have planted evidence suggesting Bin Laden was working for Saddam. Why not? Remember, if they are setting up Bin Laden then why not set up Saddam at the same time? He wasn't "a few Arabs in the desert." He had an army and millions from oil profits. Why allow people to say "Saddam wasn't the one to attack us"? There would have been far fewer players if they placed a nuclear device in the towers’ basements and took out lower Manhattan. The government could have blamed Saddam's fictitious WMD for the device and Bin Laden for the delivery. We would have reason to invade Iraq the next day. Conspiracy theorists would have us believe they chose a plan which involves thousands over smaller, more controllable plans.

From a reader:

WHY would the government do it? I don’t mean Iraq , oil etc I mean why would they do it in this way ? just to help a pal with his insurance?

Why use a plane at all . Why crash your own airline industry and every other countries { Swissair etc}, damage your financial markets { just when you are going to need some war funds} destroy very very

valuable property, panic the WORLD, kill your own citizens etc. Could all this not be achieved by a ‘foiled’ plot. Terrorists were 15 minutes from the murder of thousands… a president would certainly come out better

having stopped an attack than permitted one. Or if you needed a big attack why not just the anthrax that came after. Everyone panicking over any white powder. Far far easier to plant Anthrax or similar in the towers or Disneyland, have a panic, then capture your suspects who blow themselves up or whatever you want.

If you were going to do this, would you do it this way?’ There are cheaper, better, easier and safer ways to get into a war.. Also why pick Osama as the fall guy if the target is Hussein. Why not just pick Saddam and ‘plant’ evidence to show it was him all along, thereby never needing to go to Afghanistan at all .After all if you can plan the attack why not the culprit.. no need to go scratching for evidence of a link to Iraq AFTER the attack , set it up before.

Funny how the authorities are both all powerful, all seeing, all knowing, and completely incompetent at the same time...

The good old Pearl Harbor theory always struck me the same way . Why destroy your fleet just as you are planning war. Discover the jap carriers 500 miles out while on manouevers’ and the impact on public opinion would be similar to a attack.

Why sink your whole fleet ? Especially if you could sink theirs .. take a few years off the war if they lost 6 carriers day 1 !!

Edited October 11, 2010 by botanika

[ThunderIdeal]

If islamic extremists are not responsible whatsoever then it should very easy to travel around places like Afghanistan and Iraq and not get hurt right?

 

i can't figure out what you mean. do you really mean this? does that pass as reason for you? it makes no sense at all. i'm not planning on reading the above post, i just wanted to point out that how stupid i think it is to say "well if the arabs didn't do it, then how come pakistan is a dangerous place?"

[santiago]

the following text i have copied from my book at home...............

Book-The War to end all wars 1914-1918

THE SINKING OF LUSITANIA........page 79

the sinking has been a matter of great controversy ever since. The lusitania was indeed carrying weapons 173 tonnes of rifles and ammunition-and the german embassy had inserted an advertisement in the principal new york newspapers warning americans that 'travellers sailing in the war zone on ships to great britain do so at their own risk'. Conspiricy theorists have even speculated about a plot by the first lord of admiralty, Winston Churchhill, and the first sea lord, Sir John Fisher to have her sunk in order to drive america towards intervention.

hmmmm sound familiar

[bℓσωηG]

 

[synchromesh]

Once someone starts using the term 'conspiracy theorist', I get really bored. I mean, if I started a discussion now about classical music, would that make me a "classical music theorist"? The whole term is bullshit...

[santiago]

personally i started the thread because i was hoping some of the members here would watch the documentary of which the thread is named, it was a good doc too.

i knew there would be a little sidestream discussion re twin towers as i have seen it here before and it was such a emotional time for many that debating the subject can sometimes become a bit emotional rather than rational. but thats ok.....even if i dont believe in a conspiricy or aliens or michael jackson posing as a burn victim i still respect and enjoy other peoples viewpoints and thats OK, everybody is entitled to an opinion and in esscence thats what makes a democracy.

the point i was making with post 43 was that conspiricy theorists are nothing new, since 1918 at least in reference to the lusitania a similar kind of memo can be found, even if the term is bshit there seems to be a misconception that this is something new in the psych of humanity........er no, everything has been done before.

so i hate to use the term because i agree somewhat with synchro with conspiricy theorist being a bit tiring but hey if the conspiricy theorist wants to backtrack a few world wars and a few 10 million plus deaths then maybe they can link in the sinking of the lusitania which drove america towards intervention with the continual use of power and war in the effort to gain global control of resources.

[bℓσωηG]

yes and michael jackson was murdered by the illuminati ,

[synchromesh]

I was just speaking in general, santiago. And my main point was that conspiracy theories are not just for "conspiracy theorists", but for everybody else as well. Anyway, thank you for posting the book excerpt. The Lusitania case is certainly an interesting one.

[botanika]

i can't figure out what you mean. do you really mean this? does that pass as reason for you? it makes no sense at all. i'm not planning on reading the above post, i just wanted to point out that how stupid i think it is to say "well if the arabs didn't do it, then how come pakistan is a dangerous place?"

 

I meant that these states contain radical groups of people who have motive and substantial evidence against them. I also added 'I mean the last part light-heartedly'... in other words I was having an easy going sarcastic dig at The Dude (because I respect but disagree with his viewpoint). If you don't read my posts and missquote what I said things are not going to make sense. Hardly anyone here has mentioned the islamic extremists and many conspiracy theory (or whatever term you want to call it) sites claim it is impossible for a small group of extremists to pull off 911, so it must therefore be an inside job. I dissagree with this. I understand the military/industrial powers that be are manipulative, deceitful and opportunistic but that doesn't automatically make them responsible for everything. Capeche?

BTW sorry Santiago if Ive helped drag this off topic.

[Slybacon]

^^^^ In reference to conspiracies being new in the minds of today's theorists I think the sinking of the LUSITANIA is very new. Conspiracy theories date back to Egypt and further, whenever there has been power and order someone has secretly tried to manipulate it. Get used to it folks its not new its the truth.