Substantial link between Cannabis use and schizophrenia

[mr toodly]

I would like to apologize for the posts I've made today. They were crude. Sorry, guys.

[botanika]

And the most beneficial thing cannabis has done for me has been making me deal with experiences better. These days I practically “fear” nothing thanks to cannabis. It has totally helped me deal with the past, and it’s made me grow the guts to go on crazy festival rides etc. It has also made me much more open-minded to trying new things.

I would say that the worst thing about cannabis is its social status… which is in no way its own fault. I find that I usually get a little paranoid when I’m in places like malls, but that when I’m in a room of free-thinkers, I’m usually completely fine…

Yes, the fear thing - I think part of it is actually the numbing feeling you get. Im often less nervous at meetings when I've had a heavy night before. Im not fearless out of any superpower thing - just numbed down a bit and if you can learn to work with this, its a nice cushion. For me its like wearing sunglasses on a sunny day - ok you miss seeing some detail but your not squinting all over the place! life's a beach, I want sunglasses!

For me there's also been a definate maturity with it. When I was younger I wouldn't be able to go somewhere public at all. My tolerance and experience was lower and so I would feel the full paranoia and euphoria effects. Now Im so used to it that it doesn't bother me but equally I dont get as high. It ends up being a sort of nice medium. Its like talking to girls. When your young you cant help but always be nervous. Later in life you become a confident wise ass and take what you want ;) Am I a stoner? Fuck yeah! Am I insane? No way hombre! Am I lucky or unlucky? Equal portions but I view the glass half full. Do I contribute to society and the environment and give as much love to the world as I can? Absolutely!!!

'why make a living when you can design a life' - I dont have a give a shit attitude in an arrogant way, I just think we are all children of the universe and you have a right to love yourself, be proud of yourself and take control of where your life goes. Just because governments/corporations and the the media are taking over the world and just because that guy is staring at your red eyes doesn't mean you can't enjoy your own paradise - after all paradise is a state of mind. Respect the law, stay beneath the radar and you dont have to worry about stealth. Humans have an aptitude for creating power and empires. Why not create your own empire? Who cares if your lawyer friend doesn't agree with what you do, who cares if your parents dont agree with what you do? C'mon your lawyer friend will be paying off a BMW and house in mosman most his life and your parents are probably making bread with a bread machine and watching Rumpole of the Bailey for kicks by now.

People who are young should also remember who they are friends with and choose their friends wisely. There are people who are already on a mission downward. Hang out with them and you might also be influenced downward. Meet someone who can smoke, work and play and you might learn that balance. Authority is not all bad - learn from your masters - enjoy being mentored. Start mentoring others and share knowledge. Care and give a lot and your mind will grow a lot, cope with a lot and society will give you back a lot.

If I am to analyse my life and know that at times I haven't performed as well as I should have because of the herb, be honest I could analyse my life and see that at many times I have not performed to my potential for a sliver of reasons. I failed math in year 9. I was lazy. I didnt get that date with a girl I liked age 24, I was rude and cocky. I didn't win that running race when I was 8, I tripped because I was not concentrating. I smashed a neighbours window when I was 12 - I was hanging around bad boys from the neighbourhood. I didnt complete a project to its potential aged 32 - I was in love and distracted. Lifes complex, dont blame the herb, put it into that complexity. If your prone to mental disorders don't smoke. If you have short legs dont become a long distance runner or basketball player. Find where your jigsaw piece fits into the picture of life. You'll miss a few times but humans have a tenacity to come through with the goods when put on the line. Find your space and it will fit. Whatever the picture of life we are all valuable parts of it.

I also think no matter what line of work your in you shouldn't smoke a lot while working or studying. Your less productive on the whole whether its creative or analytical work. Thats schizo behavior right there, your mixing up recreation with something you can potentially be and should be productive in. The enlightening, reflective qualities of the herb can be utilized to overview your straight world; to laugh at it, deal with it, worry about it, change it, enhance it. Isn't that religion/spirituality? Dealing with, making sense and celebrating your life, your own mind and world? I believe a balanced life requires a see saw between being optimistic and pesimistic. Thats not schizo - thats scope. 'the positive power of negative thinking'. Dont hang around too long in either, enjoy the balance, enjoy surfing the shoulder of each wave of life - keep the wheels spinning: tune in turn on drop out, tune in turn on drop out - its cyclic. work, play, sleep, work, play, sleep, give, receive make, give recieve make. Everyone I know who's become unstuck does this: drop out drop out drop out/play sleep play sleep play sleep.

For me substance intake is like a rack of audio effects. Drink some wine and you have some reverb, eat some good food and your are equalising, take pyschedlics and your playing with flangers and phasers, hit the gym and your compressing and expanding the signal, smoke some herb and your adding some fat distortion. Take too much too often and you risk bleeding out the sound, you've ruined the mix. Learn to tweak the rack effect knobs and you might find you can control the sound of your life. If your into Spinal Tap, turn that damn thing up to 11!! We all want good vibrations right? If your schizophrenic - you lucky thing you have surround sound!

Maybe the herb makes you sub optimal but in my opinion thats a utopian place to be. Its lonely at the top - enjoy your 15 minutes of fame and move on. Its dirty and sad at the bottom, pick yourself up and become your own prophet. I love a quote Woody Allen once said about life which was all about turning up. 'It doesn't matter who wins the game of golf - its only exciting because all the competitors turn up - the winner couldn't win without you turning up and the spectators wouldn't enjoy the game with out you turning up' - dont be on the couch stoned when your supposed to be turning up. Don't be driving a car with red eyes when they should be clear eyes. Don't be too cool for school. Turn up, tune in, turn on.

The herb for me is like a No.8 iron club in the bag. Use it when you need to get high. Use another suitable club when you need to get out of the bunkers or crack your life down the fairway!

[wandjina]

and why can't someone smoke for a life-time at their own freewill?! you choose to have sex and eat fruit or whatever for a life-time, right?!

I think pot has adversely effected your cognition.

Just because I do not condone addiction, in any form (and including my own tobacco habit), does not mean that I think individuals should not be able to make their own choices. I am a staunch opponent of 'war on drugs' style legislation and policy.

As far as I'm concerned, ...'do what thou will and it harm none'. Preferably, this should include oneself.

Moreover, I'd like to add:

everything in moderation

the only difference between a poison and a medicine is the dosage

try everything once (well, almost anything).

I'm not anti pot, in fact I consider myself pro-pot in many respects.

I just dont see that addictive behaviours are, ultimately, healthy. That said, IMO some addictions are 'better' than others.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above comments re bush vs. 'commercial' skunk...blecch. may as well smash yourself in the head with a brick IMO. Not my idea of 'high'.

For 10 years I had a very intimate relationship with marijuana, including its cultivation, and have the utmost respect and admiration for this beautiful plant. Poppies are also beautiful, as is coca etc etc, and although some may argue that the drugs extracted from these plants make them different from pot, all three plants can be overused, and abused.

Several of my friends smoke dope daily, others drink every day, and a few use heroin. Although I may not condone their addictive behaviours, and may judge their behaviour as unhealthy, I don't judge them. I don't value them less as people, it doesn't make me love them any less or treat them any different. I respect their right, as they do mine, to make their own choices.

[ShiningPlain]

well if you've been reading my posts, you would know that i always recommend moderation. i was talking about smoking for a life-time, but under a "routine of moderation."

[ShiningPlain]

The key research

Panorama's "Cannabis: what teenagers need to know" explored the latest scientific research on the effects of cannabis on the human mind. In particular, the growing evidence of links between cannabis and psychotic illness in young people. What follows is a guide to the main theories and research in this field.

Four hypotheses have been proposed about the relationship between cannabis use and mental health:

* The first, the causal hypothesis, suggests that heavy cannabis use can cause mental disorders such as psychosis.

* Second, the dormant hypothesis argues that cannabis use may precipitate a mental disorder that was previously dormant in individuals prone to mental health disorders.

* Third, the common cause hypothesis states that mental illness and cannabis use may simply occur together as a result of common variables, such as unemployment, family difficulties and other drug use.

* The fourth is the self-medication hypothesis, that people use cannabis after experiencing signs of a mental health disorder in order to alleviate symptoms.

Until recently the consensus amongst the scientific community was that the fourth hypothesis which stated that people suffering from psychosis or schizophrenia used cannabis to alleviate some of the symptoms they were experiencing was the most likely explanation.

However the new research is generating more interest in the first hypothesis; namely that cannabis use itself can cause psychosis. This research is based on studies where large numbers of people are followed through a process of questionnaires over ten to twenty years. The conclusions drawn from these statistical analyses have shown that there is an association between cannabis use by adolescents who are predisposed to mental health problems and later mental health problems.

The publication of a Swedish study in 1987 was the first to suggest a link between cannabis and long-term mental health problems. The records of all the young men who had done national service in the Swedish army in 1969 and 1970 - 50,087 in total, representing about 97 per cent of the male population aged 18 to 20, were analysed. The research team then examined each man's medical history up to the mid-1980s. They found that those who had smoked cannabis before being called up were six times as likely to end up in hospital with schizophrenia as non-users. This, the team concluded, provided clear evidence that smoking cannabis was a risk factor for psychosis.

However critics pointed out methodological flaws which severely undermined the conclusions drawn. However the findings led others to examine the link with new studies that were better designed to avoid the mistakes of the Swedish study.

One of the new studies from New Zealand found that those who had smoked cannabis three times or more before the age of 15 were much more likely to suffer symptoms of schizophrenia by the time they were 26. The team, which included Professor Murray, concluded that there is a vulnerable minority of teenagers for whom cannabis is harmful. "We're not saying that cannabis is the major cause of schizophrenia but it's a risk factor."

A re-analysis of an original Swedish study from the 1980s also found similar results. Last year Dutch researcher Prof Jim van Os and his team published the results of following a group of nearly 2500 14 to 24-year-olds living in and around Munich, Germany, over four years. After correcting for all the additional factors they could think of, they found that smoking cannabis as an adolescent moderately raised the risk of developing signs of psychosis later on, from 16 per cent to 25 per cent. However when they focused on individuals who were known to be susceptible to psychosis - those who were showing signs of disturbed thought processes by age 11 - they found a much stronger link. Susceptible individuals who avoided cannabis had a 25 per cent chance of developing psychosis. Susceptible individuals who smoked it had a 50 per cent risk. And the more cannabis they smoked, and the earlier they smoked it, the worse the outcome.

Criticisms of the link theory

The big criticism of research on any link between cannabis and psychosis has been that its not clear whether the symptoms are caused by cannabis use or whether people who are likely to develop psychotic symptoms happen also to be more likely to be attracted to cannabis. David Fergusson (New Zealand - Christchurch 25-year study group) took all confounding factors into account and found: a clear increase in rates of psychotic symptoms after the start of regular use, with daily users of cannabis having rates that were over 150% those of non users. His findings clearly show cause and effect from cannabis to psychosis not other way round.

However, critics of the new research point out that other factors which can also cause mental health issues cannot always be adequately accounted for and that they may serve to lessen the power of the association between cannabis and mental health that these studies revealed.

They also point out that such epidemiological studies are notoriously bad at proving cause and effect. Apart from the problem of identifying all the potential other factors the critics say that many of the conclusions are based on very small statistical differences. They point to one of the studies, which followed over 700 people, where the number of people who had smoked cannabis three times by the age of 15 was only 29. Of those 29 only three went on to develop psychosis.

The critics also point out that if cannabis really was causing schizophrenia then there should bean increased incidence to match the rise in teenage consumption of cannabis. However in 2003 researchers at the University of New South Wales in Sydney found that, despite a steep rise in cannabis use among Australian teenagers over the past 30 years, there had been no rise in the prevalence of schizophrenia.

However most recently researchers involved in the New Zealand study have found that there might genetic factors at work as well. The team led by Dr Avshalom Caspi, re-analysed the data, this time looking at the genetic makeup of their subjects. They investigated a gene called COMT, is involved with the breaking down of key brain chemical called dopamine. Dopamine is thought to be involved in psychosis- people with psychosis have increased dopamine in one area of the brain COMT comes in two forms.,

The team found that in people with two copies of the "normal" version of COMT, smoking cannabis had little effect on their mental health. In people with one normal and one "bad" form of the gene, smoking cannabis slightly increased their risk of psychosis. But for people with two copies of the bad gene, smoking cannabis as a teenager increased their likelihood of developing psychosis by a factor of 10. According to Professor Murray, 25% of the UK population carry two 'bad' copies of the COMT gene

Featured Research

Professor Robin Murray

Research published in the British Journal of Psychiatry (2004) 181, p110 - 117

Professor Murray is Head of Psychiatry at the Institute of Psychiatry. His research examines the evidence that cannabis causes psychosis using established criteria of causality. His team identified five studies that included a well-defined sample drawn from population-based registers or cohorts and used prospective measures of cannabis use and adult psychosis

His team's findings were:

* On an individual level, cannabis use confers an overall twofold increase in the relative risk factor for later schizophrenia.

* At the population level, elimination of cannabis use would reduce the incidence of schizophrenia by approximately 8%, assuming a causal relationship.

* Cannabis use appears to be neither a sufficient nor a necessary cause for psychosis. It is a component cause, part of a complex constellation of factors leading to psychosis.

His team concluded that cases of psychotic disorder could be prevented by discouraging cannabis use among vulnerable youths but also felt that further research is needed to understand the mechanisms by which cannabis causes psychosis

Professor Yasmin Hurd

Her research investigates the close relationship between psychiatric disorders and drug abuse. As drug abuse is 4-7 times more common in persons with depression or schizophrenic syndromes and 35-80% of drug abusers will suffer from psychiatric disorders during their lifetime. The strong association between drug abuse and psychiatric disorders suggests similar underlying neurobiological impairments.

Her research team is focused on the systematic study of human brains from subjects with drug abuse (stimulants and opiates) and psychiatric disorders. Their goal is to identify and map specific genes in which regulate emotional functions, and are thereby relevant to the disorders of interest.

Additional studies carried out by this group are designed to assess how drugs affect the development of the human brain during the foetal stage, which may later lead to psychiatric problems. As complement to studies of the human brain, animal models are used in this research group to simultaneously study changes in neurotransmitter levels (e.g., dopamine) during drug self-administration behaviour. Possible neural targets for the development of future treatments against depression and drug dependence have been identified and published by the research group.

(Professor Hurd's results are unpublished and have not been replicated at this time).

Further Reading

Moderation of the effect of adolescent-onset cannabis use on adult psychosis by a functional polymorphism in the catechol-O-methyl transferase gene: longitudinal evidence of a gene X environment interaction. Caspi et al., Biological Psychiatry. 2005 May 15; 57(10) p1117-27

Arseneault L, Cannon M, Poulton R, et al, 2002, Cannabis use in adolescence and risk for adult psychosis: longitudinal prospective study, BMJ 2002; 325:1212 -1213

Arseneault L, Cannon M, Witton J, Murray R M, 2004, Causal association between cannabis and psychosis: examination of the evidence, Br. J. Psychiatry, 2004; 184: 110 - 117

Hall W, Solowij N, 1998, Adverse effects of cannabis, Lancet 1998; 352:1611-16

van Os J, Bak M, Hanssen M, Bijl R V, de Graaf R, Verdoux H, 2002, Cannabis Use and Psychosis: A Longitudinal Population-based Study, Am. J. Epidemiol. 2002; 156: 319 - 327

David Ferguson and John Horwood "Cannabis Use and Dependence in a New Zealand Birth Cohort" New Zealand Medical Journal 12/5/2000: 113 (1109): 1506-1508

Macleod J, Oakes R, Copello A, Crome I, Egger M, Hickman M, Oppenkowski T, Stokes-Lampard H, Davey Smith G. "Psychological and social sequelae of cannabis and other illicit drug use by young people: a systematic review of longitudinal, general population studies".

Zammit S, Allebeck P, Andreasson S, Lundberg I, Lewis G (2002) Self reported cannabis use as a risk factor for schizophrenia in Swedish conscripts of 1969: historical cohort study. BMJ 325: 1199

Andreasson S, Allebeck P, Engstrom A, Rydberg U (1987) Cannabis and schizophrenia. A longitudinal study of Swedish conscripts. Lancet 2:1483-1486

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/4109360.stm

Psychosis, Hype And Baloney

By Bruce Mirken and Mitch Earleywine, AlterNet. Posted March 7, 2005.

Although the mainstream media is eating it up, a new study claiming a link between marijuana use and psychosis should be approached with great caution.

As the month began, the worldwide press jumped all over a study in the March issue of the journal Addiction purporting to show a causal link between marijuana use and psychosis. "Drug Doubles Mental Health Risk," the BBC reported. "Marijuana Increases Risk of Psychosis," the Washington Times chimed in.

Such purported links have lately become the darling of prohibitionists, but a close look at the new study reveals gaping holes unmentioned in those definitive-sounding headlines.

Before we look at the study itself, let's consider some basics: If X causes Y, it's reasonable to expect a huge increase in X to cause at least a modest increase in Y, but this has not been the case with marijuana and psychosis. Private and government surveys have documented a massive increase in marijuana use, particularly by young people, during the 1960s and '70s, but no corresponding increase in psychosis was ever reported. This strongly suggests that if marijuana use plays any role in triggering psychosis, that effect is weak, rare, or both.

For this reason, researchers should approach "proof" that marijuana causes serious mental illness with great caution. The researchers in this case, a New Zealand team led by David M. Fergusson of the Christchurch School of Medicine and Health Sciences, seem to have done just the reverse.

Fergusson's team looked at a group of 1,265 New Zealand kids who were followed from birth to age 25 and assessed at various points along the way for a variety of physical, mental and social problems and issues. At ages 18, 21 and 25 they were assessed for both marijuana use and supposed psychotic symptoms. Having found a correlation with daily users reporting the highest frequency of psychotic symptoms, they then applied a series of mathematical models. These models are designed to adjust for possible variables that might confound the results and to assess whether the marijuana use caused the symptoms or vice versa.

Whatever model was applied, the correlation held up. But the reported "growing evidence" that "regular use of cannabis may increase risks of psychosis" depends completely on the validity of the underlying data, and those data raise some screamingly obvious questions.

Psychotic symptoms were measured using 10 items from something called Symptom Checklist 90. Participants were asked if they had certain ideas, feelings or beliefs that commonly accompany psychotic states. The researchers did not look at actual diagnoses, and the symptom checklist is not identical to the formal diagnostic criteria listed in the DSM-IV manual. Perhaps most important, they only used 10 "representative" items from a much larger questionnaire.

These 10 items focus heavily on paranoid thoughts or feelings, such as "feeling other people cannot be trusted," "feeling you are being watched or talked about by others," "having ideas or beliefs that others do not share." This presents a big methodological problem, because it is well known that paranoid feelings are a fairly common effect of being high on marijuana.

But the article gives no indication that respondents were asked to distinguish between feelings experienced while high and feelings experienced at other times. Thus, we are left with no indication at all as to whether these supposed psychotic symptoms are long-term effects or simply the normal, passing effects of marijuana intoxication. While it's possible the researchers had these data and didn't see a need to report them, the failure to do so is downright bizarre. It's like reporting that people who go to bars are more erratic drivers than people who don't, without bothering to look at whether they'd been drinking at the time their driving skills were assessed.

Even if these were long-term effects, the researchers seem not to have considered that what might be an indication of psychosis in other circumstances could be an entirely normal reaction for people who use marijuana. Consider: Someone using a substance that is both illegal and socially frowned-upon almost by definition has "ideas or beliefs that others do not share." This is not a sign of mental illness. It's a sign of a rational person realistically assessing his or her situation.

The same goes for "feeling other people cannot be trusted." Just ask Robin Prosser, the Montana medical marijuana patient arrested last summer on possession charges by the cops who came to save her life after she'd attempted suicide because she was in unbearable pain after running out of medicine.

Fergusson reports very little raw data, so we don't know which symptoms came up most often, or whether the differences in average levels of symptoms between users and non-users came from a few people having a lot of symptoms or a lot of people having a couple symptoms. The heavy-user group, with the highest levels of supposed psychosis, reported an average of less than two symptoms each. So it is entirely possible that the entire case for marijuana "causing" psychosis is based on marijuana smokers having the completely reasonable feelings that they have beliefs different from mainstream society and thus should be a tad suspicious of others.

"Proof" that marijuana makes you psychotic? No. Not even close. But don't expect the mainstream media to figure this out.

Bruce Mirken is communications director for the Marijuana Policy Project. Mitch Earleywine, Ph.D., is associate professor of psychology at the University of Southern California and author of Understanding Marijuana (Oxford University Press, 2002).

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/21436/

[Amulte]

correct me if im wrong but i thought it was more toward in the use with younger people? not every adult smoker

[ShiningPlain]

get off my dick. it's all relevant.

[Amulte]

get off my dick. it's all relevant.

you kiss your mother with that mouth?

THC CAN(not WILL but CAN) damage and hinder the developement of adolecents minds. there is not one substance know to humans, even my girl mary, thats doesnt have negative responses when abused by young people or abused in general. weed iswonderful but is not the wonder drug with not one negative side effect when used in context. ive been smoking for 10 years now more than a gram everyday for the last 2 years. yes im fine, but ive seen kids do the same for 1 year and go mashed tatters. my point here is its not for everyone, different drugs do different things to different people. simple as that

Edited December 9, 2005 by Amulte

[ShiningPlain]

i've already said all of this!

[Amulte]

then what was the relivance of the profanity. doesnt bother me just not eniterly what you say to somone if you agree with them....

EDIT - apon reflection a schizophrenic person i knew would do the same thing, that was how i knew she agreed with me. took some getting used to, understanding is the 1st step.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Amulte

[ShiningPlain]

get off my dick.

[narayan]

I havn't read all the scientific data about links between cannabis use and mental disorders looking back to my high school years when I smoked pot very heavily I saw alot of people develop problems possibly even mental conditions including myself. In most cases these conditions subsided gradually once cannabis usage was stopped though.

I used to be stoned all the time and got to the point where I found the sober state of mind terrorfying, when I was sober I felt like everything up to the present moment was a dream that i'd just woke up from. I also started hearing voices in my head and seeing imaginary bugs and spiders all the time. Smoking weed would only make this all more intense. Finally I stopped and got severly depressed for six months until I was slowly able to change my thinking and pull myself together. There is also a history of mental illness on one side of my family so i'm not sure if this attributed to what happened to me.

But then I know people who have smoked weed regulary for 20+ years and hold down white collar jobs and have had no problems from cannabis use.

IMHO the brain and mind is such a chaotic system that we know so little about and things such as cannabis use affects different people so differently. Any attempt to use our primitive psychological sciences to quantify this is really not going to do much good.

[Amulte]

get off my dick.

ah HA, just as i thought. so your telling me you agree with my previous statement.ok now i can understand you better

[mescalito]

One thing to remember is that one cannot "catch" a mental illness whether it be depressive or schizophrenic.If one is firstly geneticallly vulnerable then the illness is lying latent awaiting the trigger.If you happen to be this unlucky then I'd say be bloody careful with cannabis,amps or alc.

Study's mean shit IMO, I would sooner hear of others actual unfiltered experiences and reasons rather than get caught up in the whole stats BS and apply that real knowledge to my own life.

SP have you ever heard of the term in herbalism called "proving a herb"?

[ShiningPlain]

nah i haven't mescalito. and i agree in a way when you say that study's mean shit... all of the tokers i know that don't have psychosis have had a good upbringing, and don't appear to have that fucked up gene. all of the stoners i know that do have psychosis haven't had a good upbringing, and/or have that fucked up gene.