kratom import

[Conan Troutman]

Was wondering about the legal issues in importing kratom 'incense' into Australia eg. is it illegal?, I know Both Mitragynine, one of the active chemicals(widely accepted not main active chem) in Kratom, and M. speciosa the plant were placed in Schedule 9 of the Australian SUSDP.(thanks erowid)I have recently been sucsessful importing cactus type incense, only getting opened by Australian Quarantine...any comments on this kratom prep or the 'incense' offered by online vendors would be great.

[smogs]

i thought it was only at 4... not 9?

if it was at 9 u have NO chance at all

im pretty sure u cant import it at all

if u cant have it alive as a [plant i dotn see why u could have it dryed... even for the smell

[Conan Troutman]

yes believe it or not?! S9 or from what I understand it anyway...

Australia seems to have to have the most outrageous scheduling system on the planet.

From my very little legal knowledge there would seem to be many grey areas, especially when it comes to plants/contsituents,

it seems authorities could most likely prosecute or confiscate most items if they really wanted to?? from what I can ascertain if your willing to take the risk on the grey areas there is a fair chance you will succeed...???

:confused:

[Torsten]

definitely S9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And just for the record so is cactus resin.

c'mon folks, the info is here. Like threads and threads of it. You can't be looking too hard.

As for importing.... consider that only a certain percentage of parcels gets looked at by customs. Maybe 5% of small ones (much higher for large ones). So by sheer probability you can import 20 parcels and only get busted once. The problem with probability is that you don't know if it will be your first, your 20th or your 100th parcel that gets opened. But surely, just because it made it through you cannot assume it was actually legal and OK to import it!! That would be like driving 150k/h for the rest of your life just because the first cop didn't have his radar on

Except that getting busted by customs can but a serious dent in your lifestyle.

And even if they opened it and let it through, that still doesn't mean the next one will come through as well. Bottom line is that if/when they test it you will get raided an you will go to jail. if you had anything else around the house you will go to jail for longer.

The problem with people who get busted by customs is that we never see them here again so others can't learn from their mistakes.

[monkeyZ]

I've often wondered though, when do customs change from just confiscating your parcel and sending you a letter informing you it's been confiscated, to knocking down your door?

I had some fireworks sent to me some years ago from o/s by a well meaning friend, and all that happened was i got a letter informing me that they'd been intercepted and would be destoyed - and if i felt this ruling was wrong fill in the form on the reverse page.

[Torsten]

quite simple really "whenever they have a reasonable chance of conviction".

if a friend sends you fireworks then that's his fault and chances are you will get away with it unless the friend was stupid enough to include an email where you asked for the fireworks.

For drug imorts they will usually let you get away with things that are not specifically listed. eg, iboga seeds contain the drug scheduled ibogaine and hence are deemed to be ibogaine. However, there is a good chance that you could prove that you had no idea about the ibogaine and that you imported them for their ornamental value. You will get a registered mail letter telling you that what you did was illegal. Then if you do it again yu have no defence of ignorance, because they have your first signature.

However, if you import an RC, then you are expected to check your legislation before you proceed with the import. So getting any RC will likely see you in trouble.

And customs trouble does not come lightly. It will be minimum 2 customs officer and 2 state police officers. They will have very broad warrants that will aloow them to search home, car and business. And really this is where most people come unstuck. That bong on the coffee table suddenly makes a defense of ignorance about the funky tryptamine impossible. Ditto for all those ethnobotany books.

My advice, don't mess with customs unless you know the customs act better than your average customs inspector.

[Hagakure]

if you want kratom those who still have stocks from before it was made illegal are allowed to sell their leftover supplies.

i bought some last week.

[Thelema]

yeah it seems as tho plants that were alive in the country before the time of scheduling are also immune.

[Torsten]

what???? that makes no sense. where did you guys get that info from?

hagakure, the grace period for selling scheduled substances is only the period between the scheduling decision and the date it is gazetted. This is usually 3 to 9 months depending on the urgency and the type of drug. Why would kratom be any different? I wonder who told you that? Maybe someone with a vested interest?

Thelema - how does your suggestion work? and for how long? I mean, after 10 years how can you tell if a plant was planted before 2005 or after? Are you saying that all plants that were planted before the Jan 1 deadline are legal? how long for?

[ 26. May 2005, 16:03: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[Thelema]

well the implication is that such pre-illegal plants will always be legal. That doesn't mean you should rely on being able to prove them as such.

[2b]

So cloning.......cuttings.....are stil the same plant :confused: are they not ?

[monkeyZ]

Torsten:

Thelema - how does your suggestion work? and for how long? I mean, after 10 years how can you tell if a plant was planted before 2005 or after?

they'd probably cut it down and count the rings

[Benzito]

Yeah, I've got some 200 year old marijuana, coca, salvia, kratom, and poppy plants.

They're legal aswell right?

Don't ask how I got an annual plant to grow for 200 years! It just did.

But they are from before the plants became illegal. Is that OK then?

What about this 100 year old Heroin I have?

Can I sell that in Cabramatta?

[ 27. May 2005, 06:59: Message edited by: Benzito ]

[monkeyZ]

Torsten:

quite simple really "whenever they have a reasonable chance of conviction".

that's a pity. there's a plant that's very desirable but not available here (as far as i know), but i don't think it'd be looked on too kindly at all. but sometimes you just think "but what are the chances..?"

[Torsten]

Thelema - that's still pretty scant on detail there. What implication? What text do you base this on?

None of my readings have ever come up with anything that keeps a scheduled substance legal due to it preexisting. Quite the contrary, if a law is passed while you are importing the newly scheduled item you ass is still grass if you don't report it immediately.

[Hagakure]

the place i bought it from told me.

legitimate not dealer

[Torsten]

Hagakure, sorry, but the individual you bought it from does not know the law and merely makes such statements in order to not attract too much attention.

[Hagakure]

i admit they did not mention the fact it was illegal.

i brought up the fact and the response i got was what i have said.

it would be a strange law for sure