cocaine vaccine

[inpsyght]

.

Edited February 8, 2012 by inpsyght

[waterdragon]

inpsyght:

scary potential.... any bets on how long till theres a compulsory, universal drug vaccine at birth?

i'd take that bet as i believe the anti-drug industry (cops, courts, prisons and various hangers on) turns over more money than the illegal industry would. all taxpayer funded too, so there's an endless stream of revenue. a LOT of people have a vested interest in keeping things illegal.

[Hagakure]

i dont think a universal birth vaccination would happen.

vaccinations need booster shots, are expensive, a lot of people fear them anyway.

you can give a kid a shot when he is young but he may be able to have coke later in life.

im in favour of drugs but im also in favour of vaccines like this that could help people battling with coke addictions.

not everything is a big conspiricy - coke messes up a lot of communities and a vaccine like this could help a lot of people.

would be great if they developed one for heroin aswell.

and sure it helps for drugs to be illegal but if coke was a legal drug then the demand for this vaccine would be a lot higher.

[gomaos]

a LOT of people have a vested interest in keeping things illegal.

word!

[Xenomorph]

not everything is a big conspiricy

so true. some people are too busy trying to read so much into everything that they miss the entire picture. and a number of them lurk on these boards. flame off.

[inpsyght]

.

Edited February 8, 2012 by inpsyght

[waterdragon]

Xenomorph:

not everything is a big conspiricy

so true. some people are too busy trying to read so much into everything that they miss the entire picture. and a number of them lurk on these boards. flame off.

hardly. people on both sides of the debate are getting by just nicely because of these laws. there are those who might just like things to stay the way they are. it's not about conspiracies or the reading of too much into anything, it's just the world we're faced with.

[themagicmushroom]

"as an aside : anyone read the W.Gibson novel with the character that gets the forced anti-amphetamine biochem op? i can't remember the title. a few other writers have used similar themes as well."

yar, that was Case in Neuromancer - such a cool book! If I remember correctly he got around it by dosing on beta-phenethylamine.

[spaced]

Xenomorph:

not everything is a big conspiricy

so true. some people are too busy trying to read so much into everything that they miss the entire picture. and a number of them lurk on these boards. flame off.

Now I know who you're working for.

Do we really know enough about the human body to be thinking about these things yet? What if it turns out we have some endogenous ligand of almost identical structural to cocaine that is responsible for natural highs or that serves some other function in the body? It's possible that this virus may cross react with such things if they exist. And it may cross react with other tropane alkaloids such as atropine which could be a potentially life saving drug.

[illuminaut]

I'm with the conspiracy theorists.

There's the case of the WHO administering birth-control vaccines to women in the Phillipines under the guise of tetanus shots, without their consent.

http://thinktwice.com/birthcon.htm

Although you would have to consider that the CIA would be against a coke vaccine, they'd lose all their revenue.

[alucinare]

It seems to be a case of superficial cures to a problem the has a much deeper causes, now how about developing peoples mind instead of just injecting them with some synthetic chemical of which we have no idea of the long-term effect on the person and the their generations down the track. How many times in history have scientist, funded by people with certain interest, said a certain drug is safe and it not be true? quite a few.

Ofcourse not everything is a conspiracy its pretty much truth, its just made to look like a conspiracy. heh heh There is ALWAYS something happening behind the scenes, nature is a perfect example of this. There is so much that we, humanity generally, dont know and unfortunately there is so much we *think* we know.

Anyway talking about vaccines did anyone heard about the cancer vaccine? naturally i think its not a good idea, instead of questioning and attempting to change the factors known for causing cancer ie diet, toxic chems in our envir, our lifestyle in general, we just give a vaccine. Though they did say it will be used for people who have been developing cancer after recovering from other cancers, still there are alternatives which are, not surprisingly, not widely known such as alot of the natural "alternative" therapies.

[alucinare]

Well seems like someone else, unfortunately with political power, has seriously thought about new-born anti-drug vaccines.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/sto...sp?story=544439

Children to get jabs against drug addiction

Ministers consider vaccination scheme. Heroin, cocaine and nicotine targeted

By Sophie Goodchild and Steve Bloomfield

25 July 2004

A radical scheme to vaccinate children against future drug addiction is being considered by ministers, The Independent on Sunday can reveal.

Under the plans, doctors would immunise children at risk of becoming smokers or drug users with an injection. The scheme could operate in a similar way to the current nationwide measles, mumps and rubella vaccination programme.

Childhood immunisation would provide adults with protection from the euphoria that is experienced by users, making drugs such as heroin and cocaine pointless to take. Such vaccinations are being developed by pharmaceutical companies and are due to hit the market within two years.

The Department of Trade and Industry has set up a special project to investigate ways of using new scientific breakthroughs to combat drug and nicotine addiction.

A national anti-drug immunisation scheme is one of the proposals being put forward by the Brain Science, Addiction and Drugs project, an expert committee of scientists appointed by the Government earlier this year.

Professor David Nutt, a leading government drugs adviser who sits on the committee, told the IoS that anti-drug vaccines for children are likely to be among the panel's recommendations when it reports next March.

Professor Nutt, head of psychopharmacology at the University of Bristol and a senior member of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, said: "People could be vaccinated against drugs at birth as you are against measles. You could say cocaine is more dangerous than measles, for example. It is important that there is a debate on this issue. This is a huge topic - addiction and smoking are major causes of premature death."

According to the Government's own figures, the cost of drug addiction - through related crime and health problems - to the economy is £12bn a year. There is a strong incentive for the Government to find new ways to halt spiralling addiction. Last week, the IoS revealed that cocaine use had trebled in Britain with increasing numbers of users switching to highly addictive crack cocaine.

Scientists are already conducting trials for drugs that can be used by doctors to vaccinate against cocaine, heroin and nicotine addiction.

Xenova, the British biotechnology firm, has carried out trials on an anti-cocaine vaccine which showed that 58 per cent of patients remained cocaine-free after three months.

Meanwhile, experts at the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego, California, have developed a super-virus, harmless to humans, which produces proteins that can block or reduce the effects of cocaine.

The team at Scripps tested the virus on rats by injecting it into their noses twice a day for three days.

On the fourth day, the rats were given a shot of cocaine. The researchers found that cocaine had more effect on the rats not injected with the virus than those that were. Scientists hope that the virus will help stop the cravings experienced by cocaine users for the drug by blocking the pleasure they normally associate with cocaine. This anti-drug medication is expected to be available to users within the next two years in the form of a nasal spray.

Proposals to introduce a national anti-drug vaccination programme have been given a cautious welcome by MPs and experts.

Ian Gibson, head of the Commons Science and Technology Committee, said the Government would have to carry out public consultation. "There is no reason to think this would not be a starter or beneficial," said Dr Gibson, Labour MP for Norwich North. "But ... proper consultation with the public needs to happen well in advance."

David Hinchliffe, chairman of the Commons Health Committee and Labour MP for Wakefield, said: "This could have a huge impact on society in terms of preventing damage to others and dealing with addicts. [but] the ethical perspective does need to be looked at closely."

The National Treatment Agency, which manages drug-addiction programmes, welcomed any new ways of treating addiction but said there was no "magic bullet".

[Guest electro]

is it just me, or do NONE of the people on their crusades to fight against drug addiction realise that the cause of the addiction is not X drug ?

what will it take to make these people see that people are addicted to drugs for REASONS, not because they are degenerate pleasure seeking vile fiends whose only drive in life is to feel good ....

surely "relapses" must give these people some idea that there are underlying issues driving people to their need to make life more bearable ?

if it was simply about the pleasure response then people would be able to trap people in a room for a week (or the duration of the withdrawal) and all would be well...the saying "people only quit when they are ready to quit" would be irellevant, and would be more like "people quit easily and stay quit when we interrupt their supply" ..

they may well stop addiction to cocaine with this vaccine, but where does that leave the (ex)addicts ... up shit creek (still) with nothing no chemical crutch) to fall back on to make life bearable in times of desperation ... sure this may help some, but i can see a dramatic increase in suicide rates because of this ....

[Darklight]

electro:

is it just me, or do NONE of the people on their crusades to fight against drug addiction realise that the cause of the addiction is not X drug ?

Na, it's not just you, but its good to hear someone else say it. While I believe some things are addictive to some ppl, the continuation of a habit over a sustained period indicates more is at stake than chemical dependency

surely "relapses" must give these people some idea that there are underlying issues driving people to their need to make life more bearable ?

Not many treatment centres or staff are trained or equipped to cope long term with the need for deep seated life changes of the sort required to completely rid oneself of a habit- drug or otherwise.

A FOAF with a life threatening meth habit was recommended to a counsellor by some fellow travellers- this person knew the habit was destructive and was halfway along the path to breaking the back of it. They wanted to discuss reasons for constant and dramatic relapse with the counsellor.

At the first appointment the counsellor told them they should start taking SSRI's on the grounds that "most people who stop taking drugs find themselves depressed" and couldn't accept the fact that the patient had no need for SSRI's, was extremely happy to be getting over it all and was making positive lifestyle changes, diet, exercise and nutrition, which more than balanced the temporary neurochemical lack of their formerly favorite substance. In fact the counsellor became negative about future treatment prospects on the grounds of refusal of SSRI's

At the second appointment it became clear that the counsellor was completely bewildered by the patient's need to seek and destroy relapse triggers, was furthermore confused by much of the research done by the patient using standard internet search engines and admitted to having not a lot of medical knowledge in the field.

No third appointment was made, but gawd help the counsellors other patients. The former meth addict has stayed clean for years now, and describes the process as entirely horrible, but something they wouldn't have missed for quids, a rewarding journey both out and back that gave them a opportunity to learn and grow that might otherwise have not been available. They learned and understood much more about themselves and others and cemented many valuable friendships during this time

... up shit creek (still) with nothing no chemical crutch) to fall back on to make life bearable in times of desperation ... sure this may help some, but i can see a dramatic increase in suicide rates because of this ....

I don't agree with that last statement, but I am concerned that there is a grave issue of personal sovereignty at stake. Once governments start biologically limiting an individual's life choices we all have much to fear...not to mention the possibility of such treatments being able to be given without consent.

And what of the possibilities for cross tolerance in a medical environment? Is it possible that some current or future medical treatments may become impossible to administer because they are blocked by the vaccine? For example, someone else I know was worried about being in a medical emergency situation while on Naltraxone: if he required pain killing drugs his doctor told him many would simply not be effective at all because of the receptor blocking of his opioid sites. Dunno how true this is but it sounds possible

[Guest electro]

well maybe suicide is taking it a bit far, but oy use where im going ...

if someone is using drugs to keep themselves from harming themselves ... (ie instead of cutting or eating x times the reccomended dose of paracetamol for the day) then taking their abilility to retreat to that comfort zone is only going to cause problems ...

sorta like pulling a walking stick out from under someone who has used it to walk for the last 20 years .. they will fall down when you rip it out from under tham ...

they may get back up again and realise that they didnt need it anymore or they may break their hip in the fall and never get back up again...

*shrug*

i know if i didnt have the option to use drugs to "get by" when i was mentally screwed i prolly wouldnt be here today ...

and oh yea .. i didnt even think about the freedom of choice issues involved !

[Rev]

There'll be no sunny tomorrow for anyone stupid enough to put a needle in my kids arm :mad:

The heroin - morphine crossover has me concerned

It could EASILY turn out to the next generations neurological thalidomide

[ 30. July 2004, 01:30: Message edited by: reville ]

[mescalito]

Rev Re:opiates I don't like them much because you're emotions tend to become so numb after even short term use(much like Pray Station© in a way!)

I mean they're useful for traumatic pain but not that great on physical pain in the long term really so I think your progeny won't have the need to seek out opiates and the like somehow

I understand where you are coming from too electro.

The 'jug of choice' for anybody IMO is basically a crude indicator as to what type/s of problem/s the individual is suffering within their 'realm of understanding' and should not be discounted or removed until a suitable compromise in thinking and attitudes has occurred within themselves.

As you say "i know if i didnt have the option to use drugs to "get by" when i was mentally screwed i prolly wouldnt be here today ... "

this is the truth for most people I know bar those that doubted their choices and now aren't here RIP

I think it's not a paranoid delusion to subscribe to conspiracy theorist ideas over this type of intrusion on personal choice after all one doctor I saw years ago was more concerned about "possible" cannabis use (because I have a goaty and where flanno's sometimes!)and increasing the dose of Xanax than how I actually felt about myself!

It's almost like they want you to "get over it" or "fuck-up and die" either way 'they' are happy not you *your files are lost-shut the fuck up-that'll be 38 bucks-next!*

I like the idea of Ninjas with Ibogain 5x in hand swinging through the window and nursing you through a 'life withdrawl' and disappearing into the dawn-rather than this underhanded technique of genocide.

*law makers I spit in your general direction*

:D

[gomaos]

opiates I don't like them much because you're emotions tend to become so numb after even short term use(much like Pray Station© in a way!)

so true...

when my gnome first tried his poppy brew, for several nights in a row he was permitted into the surrealitically beautiful "opium Underworld", an interdimensional plane where his mind would fly all night, for a full eight hours or longer...

perhaps the most gratifying experience one can have, but since then he hasn't been let back into there... because of that stupid opioid tolerance thing...

lately he had a real bad tooth infection, some of the worst pains he has ever experienced, the infection was so bad the dentist would not extract but sent him home with antibiotics...

during those 24 painful hours he consumed horrid amounts of codeine WHICH ONLY HELPED VERY LITTLE...

now his tolerance is so high that 300mg codeine only give him a light buzz...

However, even with his tolerance so high, he says not addicted to opiates, and doesn't take them everyday...

the fact he's not addicted he attributes to Kratom consume which is supposedly anti-addictive...

Kratom itself DOES NOT produce a tolerance like Opium but gives a very similar buzz...

and it appears to be relatively harmless...

too bad the ppl who run this country have already outlawed a plant with many benefits...

they have no idea what they are doing...

[Darklight]

mescalito:

more concerned about "possible" cannabis use (because I have a goaty and where flanno's sometimes!

Eureka mesc, I think you've hit the nail on the head! I can see it now, in the New England Journal of Medicine " Flanno wearing is definitive predictive behaviour for illicit drug use " ROTFL

That deserves its own thread, but not here, and not by me, my flanno wearing partner would neck me, or at very least, burn the toast on purpose.

PS I have never worn a flanno, but I inhaled once

[Rev]

mescalito:

Rev Re:opiates I don't like them much because you're emotions tend to become so numb after even short term useI mean they're useful for traumatic pain but not that great on physical pain in the long term really

Thats what i was referring to - medical use of Morphine

What if any one of use had an operation, a traumatic accident or was being rescued from some accident while out on some ethnobotanical foray in the wilderness

If youd been immunised againts heroin then its likely that the morphine (Acetyl morphine) wouldnt work either

Morphine (and once Heroin) are very effective medical painkillers

Likewise Cocaine is still used medicinally and amphetamines in the form of Dexies are all around us.

I fear that it could all go horribly wrong if it turns out that immnunaisation against cannabinoids, amphetamines, phenethylamines and various others that play a role in our neurophysiology may create some very twisted psychlogies in teh young of tomorrow

what if the PEA 'love drug' didnt work? what if anandamide was inactivated so could no longer assist forgeting trauma, and other cannabonoids regulating fertility. What if the Dopamine, noradrenaline and Serotonin systems were irrevocably altered by this treatment and created people incapable of focus, motivation ,empathy.

What kind of Sociopaths might we create?

Its is very possible that what we see with ADD and ADHD are just the tip of an iceberg of behavioural and neurochemical abnormalities

great for the drug companies

but a nightmare for everyone else

[Torsten]

Occasional drug use is not a disease and as such should not require treatment. It definitely must not have compulsory preventative treatment.

That said, I believe there is a place for these vaccines. Any drug consumer who through his habit infringes on the civil liberties of someone else has no right to the full compliment of his own civil liberties. Hence, a junkie who steals, a drunk who kills with a car, and a crackhead who assaults innocent bystanders should in my opinion get the option of incarceration or vaccination (or a combination depending on the associated crime). In fact, vaccination solves the conundrum of what to do with addicts, as leaving them their freedom is bad for the rest of society, but taking their freedom is of no help to them and often just makes the situation worse, which in turns is bad for society.

The problem is see is in the judicious (ie restricted) use of these measures. Once introduced there would be nothing stopping a government from introducing vaccination for *anyone* convicted of any drug offence, including simple possession (which is not socially harmful). At the moment it might even encourage law enforcement to convict more possession offenders! But then again, the way things are going, in a few years time most countries won't be locking their possession offenders in jail anymore anyway.

The thought of parents or the government making such an important choice for the rest of a persons life is disgusting. In any case, there should be a minimum age, which should be around 18... give or take a couple of years.

[Rev]

The risk is too great

as you said once started its all too easy for it to get away to unhealthy scenarios

the same as ANY legislation that discriminates for people on the basis or race, sex, gender, economics whatever (that includes when it is done to help monorities)

If simple posession was no longer a jailable offence then theres be more room and resources for offenders of danger to society.

People who cant control their drug habits whether it be alcohol or heroin could be incarcerated in novel ways - main thing is to remove them from greater society and keep them away from their old habits.

Rather than using the poorly understood immune system it would probably be better to develop a chemical implant that does the same thing

Opiod (or other) blockers inserted under the skin like today progesterone birth control implants.

If Drug use was normalised, or at least we redefined use according to what our society is changing to accept (ie mostly serotonergic drugs), and harm minimisation official policy there would be less harm from drug use

from harm to self or oether while under the influence - most specifically DUI

From drug trade related crime (Violent Criminal element)

From conflict between Drug possessors and law enforcment

[ 31. July 2004, 19:12: Message edited by: reville ]

[themagicmushroom]

 

quote:

---

what if the PEA 'love drug' didnt work? what if anandamide was inactivated so could no longer assist forgeting trauma, and other cannabonoids regulating fertility. What if the Dopamine, noradrenaline and Serotonin systems were irrevocably altered by this treatment and created people incapable of focus, motivation ,empathy.

 

What kind of Sociopaths might we create?

 

Its is very possible that what we see with ADD and ADHD are just the tip of an iceberg of behavioural and neurochemical abnormalities

 

---

exactly my fear, people would be vaccinated against their own neuro-chemistry.

[Talby]

 

quote:

---

Childhood immunisation would provide adults with protection from the euphoria that is experienced by users,

---

LMFAO "Protection from euphoria"...I wonder if the people who write these things realize how stupid a statement like this sounds. I agree that there are people who shouldn't take certain drugs and that these vaccines have certain applications. But I'm getting sick of medical authorities talking about euphoria as an undesirable side effect. We may not know how to properly deal with drug-induced euphoria yet, but that doesn't mean euphoria is an evil in itself.

What they really mean: Thou shalt Not Get High.