every year they run a story like this

[nabraxas]

The National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre has warned about the effects of a beautiful backyard flower which is poisoning young people in search of the latest drug high.

The centre says Angel's Trumpet, also known as datura and moonflower, is a white, trumpet-shaped flower which can act as a powerful psychedelic agent.

It can cause rapid heartbeat and delirium lasting up to 20 days.

A team of Newcastle toxicologists in NSW has reviewed incidences of Angel's Trumpet poisoning in cases admitted to a major toxicology unit between July 1990 and June 2000.

Thirty-three people - with an average age of 18 - are believed to have ingested the plant.

No deaths have been recorded but 19 patients were so severely affected that they required treatment with powerful sedative drugs.(another stat from the melbourne MX version--"29 patients of the 33 were delirious for an average of 18 hours"--nabraxas)

The NDARC's PAUL DILLON says the internet has fuelled interest in datura, which had been linked to a number of deaths, including one young man who jumped off a cliff.

"Datura has a hallucinogenic effect similar to LSD however users that I've talked to have said it was significantly more powerful."

"Very few people who have used it (datura), use it more than once."

Dillon said that since datura is extracted from a flower many think that the effects will not be as harmful than that of manufactured drugs.

"There seemed to be a perception that natural means that it is safe, although in many instances natural can be more potent."

"With datura you are not getting a measured dose."

According to Dillon, Angel's Trumpet grows more prominently on coastal regions however instances of datura poisoning are no longer confined to these areas.

Dillon also mentioned one case where a young person under the influence of the drug "had to be restrained in hospital".

"Sometimes the hallucinations are so intense that they (users) panic so they need a sedative to calm them down."

Other symptoms of Angel's Trumpet poisoning include dry mouth, vomiting, diarrhoea and fever.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/04/...9849318107.html

[Zu]

nabraxas:

The NDARC's PAUL DILLON says...

"Datura has a hallucinogenic effect similar to LSD however users that I've talked to have said it was significantly more powerful."

Paul Dillon is a tosser. A long time ago I thought he provided balanced information but everytime there's an article on drugs in the Australian press there's always some over the top (usually inaccurate) quote from him.

I can't believe he compared datura to LSD; gee, that'll stop the kids from trying it.

[Auxin]

"I can't believe he compared datura to LSD; gee, that'll stop the kids from trying it."

The anti-drug people have to ensure job security by covertly encouraging illicit drug use- one method they use is comparing any and all vision inducing substances to LSD (regardless of the accuracy of the comparison) because they know such claims will result in thousands of people trying it, the media will then have to report on the surge in drug use and they will give the anti-drug people free TV time to further propogandize the general populous.

Sneaky immoral bastards arent they!

[gerbil]

Originally posted by nabraxas:

The centre says Angel's Trumpet, also known as datura and moonflower, is a white, trumpet-shaped flower which can act as a powerful psychedelic agent.

Dillon said that since datura is extracted from a flower

"With datura you are not getting a measured dose."

According to Dillon, Angel's Trumpet grows more prominently on coastal regions however instances of datura poisoning are no longer confined to these areas.

 

alot of that makes no sense at all,

so you extract the plant from it's flower?...

the Angels trumpet refers to brugmansia species doesn't it?

guess he also doesn't know that alcohol can make people jump off cliffs.

[ 05. August 2003, 21:14: Message edited by: gerbil ]

[planthelper]

yet again an authority that does not know shit from clay.

brugs are no daturas.

ahhh, this expert is sooo stupid.

[nabraxas]

http://www.americanbrugmansia-daturasociety.org/

a more reliable 'authority'- w/lots ov really good pictures.

[deaders]

I agree, all crap like this is going to do is ensure more kids are aware of datura "WOAH JUST LIKE LSD" therefore creating more cases of poisoning and providing a basis for more hysteria so people like Paul Dillon can try and grab some more of the media spotlight. This is just plain disinformation that they are giving, and from reading that article if i didnt know of datura's effects already i would probably think it sounded like something interesting to try.

Having read plenty of experience reports that describe it as anything but fun i have no desire to try datura in any way, but how many teenagers who read that kind of article would bother to resarch further?

[Darklight]

Articles like that remind me of that cartoon where someone is ticking a dog off for chewing a bone on the carpet and all it hears is the word "bone"

So given the sensationalist stance on the topic your average cursory glance could well yield "Blah blah blah drugs and alcohol blah blah backyard flower blah blah drug high blah blah powerful psychadelic agent blah blah hallucinogenic effect similar to LSD"

I mean lets face it, even newspaper journalists have admitted to me that most daily newspapers set their stories at the average reading ability of a twelve year old ( which twelve year old I wonder? ) and the broadsheets only pitch their stories for those with average reading skills of someone three or four years older

And apparrantly most people only read and remember the first two paragraphs and the last paragraph ( where did I hear that? can't recall ) of a story. What you have then is a population making its mind up on the fly, fed with ideas structurally posed to fit higher levels of comprehension only at the start and finish of the argument.

Dunno if this is directly aimed at giving kids the idea that Brugs Can Be Fun, I think that's a by product of the intent to scare the crap out of even the most liberal parent so they're ever more vigilant and to incite a feeling of helplessness, I mean no matter how much pot you smoked in the 60's you aren't going to want your child to face delerium and possible death are you? My god, drugs are everywhere- in your backyard even. Good job these people are onto it, hey

What gets me is that these stories seem to be most visible towards the end of the year, when little Nigel and Sarah are heading towards exams or have just finished them. Maximum family stress time, and then the press pile it on with sensationalist articles to make people worry even more about their kids. I suspect that by engendering feelings of helplessness and powerlessness generally they create a self feeding loop of fear and mistrust.

[Salviador]

Is there something we can do? Clearly this misinformation should not be allowed to continue. Can we speak to someone, set up our own journal that reaches the public, even billboards?!! Then we could inform youth of drugs to take, and their real benefits and real dangers. Maybe something like ravesafe except tripsafe sort of thing. This reminds me of a topic where we discussed the information given out by the government about mj giving nausea, headaches etc. When these youth try mj after seeing the warnings are now less likely to believe any other drug info from the government concerning more dangerous drugs. I mean this sounds familiar to salvia being advertised as a legal, marijuana alternative. The more drugs that are demonised and then criminalised makes the next drug, more likely to be similar to the ever increasing number of illegal drugs, more likely to be banned. Gosh this shits me

[M S Smith]

I remember seeing one of those "newsertainment" shows a long time ago that had a police video of two youths in the police station. The boys looked extremely disoriented and frightened and passed back and forth among themselves an imaginary cigarette which they both puffed on and exhaled. One then reached into his back pocket, pulled out an imagnary comb, and ran it through his hair.

That should have taught me, but it didn't. I remember being a youth at home under the influence of Datura seeds (mixed with copious amounts of alcohol and a gram or so of P. harmala seed) thinking I heard my parents in the other room and frightened that they would find me all freaked out. Of course they were out of town and I was all alone. When my parents returned I had to tell them I spilt Hawaiian Punch to explan the deep red stain the P. harmala vomit left on my bedroom carpet. Not something I repeated, I can promise you that.

[Rev]

I propose we do something about this...

Instead of leaving the situation as is we should endeavour to enrich our urban environment with as many other safer and more pleasant entheogens as possible

[Auxin]

"Instead of leaving the situation as is we should endeavour to enrich our urban environment with as many other safer and more pleasant entheogens as possible"

Everyone with heimias, save up a years worth of seeds and in spring liberally sprinkle them across the outback. It could be ecologically disasterous, but at least your gov't would have a hard time actually banning it.

[M S Smith]

Talk about spreading the seeds, well I seem to single handedly have spread Datura stramonium all over the large metropolitan area I live in. I grew them a few years and collected a zip-lock bag full of seed, and then, seeing I had too many and didn't have an idea of how to use them I went to a look out point that overlooks the city (a major tourist stop-off and hangout for bike riders and auto enthusiast) and went all along a half mile stretch throwing seeds around. Hundreds if not thousands of these plants came up the next year at this spot. Then what to my surprise, I see these plants sprouting up almost everywhere I traveled around the city. These likely progeny of mine are still found all over the place. (Do birds eat these and pass them undigested?)

And even funnier is the fact that just the other night I was talking to a 22 year old nephew of mine who picked a bunch of the pods and sold them to a buddy of his who made a mad tea. It looks like he came out of his madness sevn days latter. Damn, I hope I wasn't responsible for that.

And one more cool thing, just a few houses down from me someone has two of the most beautiful squat double-yellow Brugmansias growing in his yard. I doubt he knows what he has, but I know I will be stopping by and asking to take a few photos.

[kitty]

 

quote:

---

This reminds me of a topic where we discussed the information given out by the government about mj giving nausea, headaches etc. When these youth try mj after seeing the warnings are now less likely to believe any other drug info from the government concerning more dangerous drugs

---

Absolutely! And the recent stories on A Current Affair and Girlfriend magazine (I saw the headline Addicted to Pot in the impulse-buys section of a supermarket and flipped through it - Have to stress I DID NOT BUY IT :cool: ), they're going to do the exact same thing, claiming pot addiction is one of the most common mental problem in teens, and it makes you depressed and antisocial and such...

So I wrote nice long emails to ACA and girlfriend telling them why they should tell the truth and such... Doubt they'll pay any attention at all though.

Maybe we could compile an 'Herbal Highs' or similar magazine, and then try our damnedest to get as many newsagents to sell it as we can... or something... print it on recycled paper and stick piles of it outside highschools... I don't know. but it would be great to let more people know about our plants

[ 18. August 2003, 03:15: Message edited by: kitty ]

[mescalito]

Agree Kitty,but,by the time the kids are at high school-it's too late!

This knowledge(and I mean TRUTH),should be still being handed down from gen to gen.

That way kids can understand the right way before being influenced by mis-informed informers.

[Darklight]

Its not just about drug education either, tho it is probably the sharpest two edged sword because talking openly about drugs from multiple viewpoints encourages critical thinking, which needs to be developed far earlier along in the curriculum that it is- where curently taught at all

And once you've taken illegal drugs, you've stepped outside the box at least once and had the opportunity to see that at least from the perspective of most- much of the information distributed is woefully incorrect and you have to start thinking from scratch to work out how you feel about the issue personally

Something I believe should be included in such a balanced publication as that mentioned by kitty is the notion that drugs aren't compulsary, some people don't like them and some choose not to take them- also a valid perspective IMO. The issue is choice, information and safety, and if ppl choose to not consume then that leaves more for those of us who do

[chief23]

All I can say is thank God for the internet and forums like these, where people can get useful information from all sides of the story and make thier own minds up.

Chief

[Auxin]

"thank God for the internet and forums like these, where people can get useful information from all sides of the story"

Yeah, but it spreads false info too. Both sides put out propoganda. I've seen anti-drug people say pot DOES cause nausea (implying its a very frequent effect) and I've seen pro-pot people say it NEVER causes nausea but is ALWAYS a cure for it. Neither are true. In some it does cause nausea, in some it doesnt and often its dose dependent. When I had to smoke pot to reduce nausea enough to eat I always had to make sure not to smoke too much or it would make it worse and even when I had no nausea too much pot would cause it.

But its true, if you really look and know what your looking for the internet is a great tool for uncovering the truth about many things.

[deaders]

I think all a magazine detailing "herbal highs" would do is cause a lot of sensationalist fuss and make it easier for the powers that be to try and restrict or prohibit the different entheogens...

[theobromos]

This story should have been published just before your summer if they wanted to avoid deaths from datura. The heat causes more deaths because the ability to sweat is reduced.

Perhaps I should write down my halfhour rant on why not to do tropanes, ranging from memory loss to werewolves.

[kitty]

Yeah, you're probably right about the 'herbal highs' magazine.

I think I was thinking that it would probably be easier to try and convince people to sell Ray Thorpe's "Happy High Herbs" than to make our own...

But with an idea like this, I'm not sure it would be possible to avoid sensationalist "anti-press" and still get the message to the people we're aiming at (i.e.- People, a large majority in their teens, who are looking for alternative ways to experience things).

From personal experience, I spent over 6 months trying unsuccesfully to find any ethnobotany or herbal information within Australia before I came across Ray's stall at a big day out, a little while later ordered herb online from them, one of the packages had a medicine garden label, and so on (not really sure how I ended up discovering SAB)

But yes, I think I've made the point I was trying to, or maybe my point got mixed up along the way.

summary in big letters- INFORMATION IS HARD TO COME BY

~Kitty~

[ 20. August 2003, 16:47: Message edited by: kitty ]