Seedling Smoke Water Treatment

[Ishmael Fleishman]

I recently visited a native nursery , where they mentioned they treat their seeds and seedling with smoke water.

 

I then spoke a few horticultural and garden people and they have validated the use of smoke water.

 

Now my first instinct was to see if their was a commercial product but it seems most people make their own.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ivkI2kYVxo

 

My current living situation does not make making smoke water viable however I could easily imagine making something up with a bbq smoker I used to have,

 

So I have two questions - Have you used smoke water to treat your seedlings and plants and did it make a difference?

 

Secondly I was thinking why bother making up a contraption to capture smoke in water as in the above video, why not just buy liquid smoke the kind used in the food industry that people use on meat to get that smoked BBQ flavour. - The real stuff is made from wood smoke captured by being passed through water. You can get a small bottle for less then $10 that would last forever since it is diluted down to almost homeopathic levels.

 

Since it does not seem that it is a specific type of wood needed to make the smoke but rather the compounds produced in the combustion process that is important.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited January 27 by Ishmael Fleishman

[fyzygy]

- DIY Smoke Water
Commercial smoke water can work out to be expensive for large seed batches, but it's easy to make your own at home. On an industrial scale, smoke water is produced by bubbling smoke through a container of water, but there's a simpler DIY method that doesn't require any special equipment.
Simply burn a small amount of twigs and leaves from native plants, taking care over safety, and collect the ashes. Soak in water for 24 hours, sieve, and use the smokey water as before. https://www.theseedcollection.com.au/blog/Smoke-Treatment-for-Native-Seed-Germination

 

https://www.nindethana.net.au/assets/pdf/smoke-pretreatment.pdf

 

What species of plant did you have in mind? 

[Ishmael Fleishman]

I am having my first go at acacia.

 

Yes I have seen the ash method and litraly starting a small fire next to a container filled with seeds method.

 

What do you think of using liquid smoke meant for bbq meat?

[fyzygy]

1. Soaking in just-boiled water

2. Scarification

3. Stratification

4. Chemical treatment

5. Dry heat treatment*

 

^ "When dealing with a few seeds only, the first two methods are the most commonly and successfully used."

* "seeds may be heated in an ordinary convection oven at about 50-60 degrees C for several minutes or some hours depending on the thickness of the seed coat."

 

Marion H. Simmons, Growing Acacias.

 

 

I'm not sure about liquid smoke for BBQ. Or even if it matters that it's usually hickory or other American spp? A similar product is available in powdered form too, for cheesemaking. Why not just buy smoke-water products designed for Australian native plant propagation? But (as per above) it's not needed for Acacia spp. 

 

[Alchemist]

I once spoke to the chemist who discovered the active principle, karrikin, in the smoke water. The contraption he used to make the smoke burned, or more correctly heated to smoking point, filter paper! So even just paper smoke can work.

More on Karrikins below

https://bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12915-015-0219-0

Edited January 28 by Alchemist

[Ishmael Fleishman]

As far as I understand it the material being burned is not important - paper, leaves, native, non native it all produces seem to give the same results.

 

Why bother? It seems like it "improves" germination and seedling survival rate.

 

Found these products:

 

https://stratagreen.com.au/nursery-and-plant-propagation/propagation-grafting-supplies/smoke-water-500ml/

 

https://greenmanchar.com.au/products/wood-vinegar-puresmokewater

 

http://www.smoult.com.au/products/chemicals-a-z/chemicals-s-z/smokemaster-smoke-water-for-germination-of-native-plants/

 

Well today I have been burning down a bunch of assorted hardwoods. Making a pile of ash, will soak in water for a few days and see if it helps.

 

I planted a bunch of acacia seeds about a week ago and I am starting to see a few come up.

 

I soaked them in boiled water for 24 hours and planted them in a mix of perlite, pumice, and soil dug up from around a wild acacia and peat moss.

 

Will try my DIY solution will try the Food grade Smoke and will time a try a commercial product.

 

Just having fun.

 

 

 

[Ishmael Fleishman]

I spent the day making my first smoke water.

 

I had a metal tray into which a steel mesh basket was placed, and I burned down everything from grass to wood to leaves to some old dried chillies I had.

Because the basket is small, it was slow going, but I managed to burn down a fair amount of wood into white ash.

 

I have now put the ash into about 30 litres of rainwater.

 

The ash liquid was extremely alkaline; you could smell it and feel that slippery feeling you get from alkaline solutions. I believe that this is the pot ash contributing to this effect.

I will leave it to soak for two days and then start using it to water and germinate my acacia seeds.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

I am thinking of rigging up a smoking set up tomorrow - placing a rack high above the fire and smoking the seeds as I make more ash for the smoke water.

 

I have a friend who has a wood fire heater am going to see if I can get her to save the ash for me.

 

I know my method of high temp fire is not ideal however with my current setup this is the best I can do - If I had my old drum smoker I could control the temp better and do a long slow burn.

 

As soon as I sort out my house situation I will have another go at making more smoke water.

 

Edited January 28 by Ishmael Fleishman

[Ishmael Fleishman]

Update

 

36 hours ago I used the first dose of smoke water on the some acacia courtii seeds that were planted 7 days ago.

 

In the first 5 days I had one seedling come up, now after three dosing of the smoke water over the last 36 hours, I now have 9 possible 10 seedlings up.

 

That is a 50% germinate rate to date. I will be impressed if I get all 20 seeds to germinate.

 

It could be coincidence, I just do not have experience as this is my first time growing acacia seeds.

 

I have some Acacia Bailey seeds that I am going to smoke today and then soak the seeds in some smoke water for 24 hours and we will see what we get.

 

 

[Needfulalterego]

 

On 28/01/2024 at 3:53 PM, Ishmael Fleishman said:

As far as I understand it the material being burned is not important - paper, leaves, native, non native it all produces seem to give the same results.

My wife and I burn and bubble about a half o per week through water. PM me if you want it - I normally pour it down the drain

Nah but seriously I'v always wondered if that would work.