mescalito Posted September 13, 2003 The old addage'Idle Mind-Idle Body' What comes first?Does the spirit become Idle too? I'd love too hear some theories 'cause it's been in my thoughts lately Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted September 14, 2003 one i like goes something like 'the human being has the ability to pick itself up by the proverbial mental bootlaces' i think mind/body equations can work in either direction. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubyTuesday Posted September 15, 2003 I personally find it easier to get the body going first.... Actually I don't know if active body = active mind... Uhhh... yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted September 16, 2003 Mind and body are inseperable: No body will work without a mind, i.e. comatose, no mind exists without a body... prove me wrong if you can Is there a difference between the mind and the soul? No-one knows... The mind is the energy that keeps the body going... if it is energy, it can't disappear... einstein has proven that: E=mc2, so what happens to that energy when the body dies? An age-old question that cannot possibly be answered... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted September 16, 2003 "The mind is the energy that keeps the body going... if it is energy, it can't disappear... einstein has proven that: E=mc2, so what happens to that energy when the body dies? An age-old question that cannot possibly be answered..."--Gomaos, i thought you were too much ov a realist to fall for quasi-spiritual psuedo-science? "mind" is a construct, new born babies have baby minds, adults have adult minds, dogs have dog minds & a child brought up exclusivly by dogs would have a dog mind. the brain is a collection ov cells which use electrical impulses to pass information, but the energy that keeps the body going comes from the metabolism ov food. "energy can neither be created or destroyed"- but it does change form. where does it go when you die?--the same place the energy that keeps boiling water bubbling goes as the water cools---that's my guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted September 20, 2003 idle body-idle mind-idle soul in some beleifs the mind is the interface/comunication between body and soul. i read a rave somewhere saying the egytian word for soul was from a root meaning to go,this led to the ankh,the shape of a sandal,the covering for the 'sole',and i wonder about the word ankle. this was a cabalistic rap with a lot more to it if you want to chase the trail for yourself. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted September 21, 2003 Got a copy somewhere on CD! I'll have a squiz Thanx Tst :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted September 21, 2003 "--Gomaos, i thought you were too much ov a realist to fall for quasi-spiritual psuedo-science?" Not at all. It's a very interesting subject. "mind" is a construct, new born babies have baby minds, adults have adult minds, dogs have dog minds & a child brought up exclusivly by dogs would have a dog mind. yes, agree totally... in the same way there are also baby souls, adult souls, and dog, animal and plant souls. Why fight the idea of souls? To be scientific: In the body of a live human being, there are several low electric currents... some form of energy, am I right? Now in a dead body there are no currents... where did they go? Einstein has proven that energy cannot simply disappear but transform into something else. The formula is: E=mc2 (sorry my keyboard hasn't got small numbers at the right hand top corner, that's why I have to write it like this. The formula is not E=0 Therefore the existence of souls is proven... they are "the energy that keeps the body going" without a soul there can be no life... This doesn't mean the existence of god is proven, there is no all-powerful being. At the same time I do not deny the existence of some very powerful beings, but they are not all-powerful. i've mentioned this one before: When the brain thinks the body is dying it releases dmt and the individual (soul?) has visions... Which doesn't mean that visions helped into existence by dmt are totally imaginary and unrelated to existence... they are very much related to existence and in my 'guesswork' they are there to help the soul to the next level of existence after death "energy can neither be created or destroyed"- but it does change form. exactly where does it go when you die? Nobody knows! --the same place the energy that keeps boiling water bubbling goes as the water cools---that's my guess so our souls simply evaporate into the athmosphere... to easy... no karma... we don't have to come back to suffer again. Great! Total dis-solution must be total bliss... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted September 22, 2003 Not really where I was heading but... OK! Energy=Mass X Velocity of light squared..... So human tools were used to quantify it's own existence I agree (so far) that energy changes form,and prolly an exact exchange! One thing missing in the equation is the fourth dimension though. Energy Mass and Light all move through time. That is if Mr E.'guessed' the rest right :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted September 22, 2003 hmm,so does time happen/occur at the speed of light[or light squared?]?does time slow if light slows? t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitty Posted September 22, 2003 light's being measured relative to time, so time slowing would... umm... subjectively make light appear to be moving faster, but it wouldn't really be moving faster... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted September 23, 2003 I think it's PHYSICALLY impossible for light or time to slow... If someone found out how to do that very thing we then would have the "quantum-drive" that occurs in almost every science fiction epic... I can't quite imagine how THINGS could move faster or even half as fast as light, but maybe if we have terminators as governors in california we can also have travel at or above light speed/ Not just yet but... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted September 23, 2003 Physically,yes....which brings us back to the question I guess? Science -ficton..quantum DRIVEs DMT seems to be able to transport the subject faster than the speed of light,but the physical body's still in 3 d time and space "I can't quite imagine how THINGS could move faster or even half as fast as light.." Imagination... the very thing that is driven out of us as we grow(?) up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitty Posted September 23, 2003 Well, some guys at ANU last year made a big discovery that they'd 'teleported' an object by accelerating it to faster than the speed of light. But then, the object was a photon, so quantum physics comes in and you have to say that their measuring it screwed up the experiment... Yes. Definitely should stick with drug analogies in the future, I think. It's harder for me to get me head in a knot that way... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted September 23, 2003 gomaos- i'm not trying to belittle your thoughts-- they are actually not that far from mine, but a couple ov things need clarifying. 1) "energy can neither be created or destroyed" is the written "1st law of thermodynamics"(closely followed by the entropy law), my memory is saying it was more to do w/newton- but my memory has been beaten to a pulp by MJ so forget that,.. anyway.., Energy=Mass times speed ov light (in a vacuum) squared( or E=MC2) has no relation to that law-,cept for the fact they both talk ov "energy"--but this is 2 different concepts. the 'energy' in E=MC2 is nuclear 'energy' specifically, while the energy in thermodynamics is anything that can provide a 'force'- hence a spring has a large amount ov latent 'energy'. at least that's my understanding, but again.. my understanding's been hammered by MJ, so i may well be totally wrong. 2)when i say "dogs have dog minds", i guess i should say any creature which has a brain that processes information in a similar manner to ours will have a 'mind'--can you say the same for souls? or does the AIDS virus have a soul?- if not, why not? how to you define the cut off point for a soul--is it sentience?--could a sentient computer have a soul?--these are questions i ask myself, they're not an attack G. i guess you don't subscribe to the Monty Python definition ov a soul(from The Meaning of Life)roughly remembered{damn MJ}-- "a soul is not something everyone is born with per se, but has to be brought into being by a process of guided self realisation"...or something.--i agree w/that. love & peace- gomaos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted September 23, 2003 PS--remember folks time is just a measure we use--it's ALL relative to where we observe from. change your viewpoint & your observation ov what we measure as "time" may well change, this doesn't mean "time" has speeded up or slowed--just that the measure is wrong/needs calibrating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trixxy3 Posted September 23, 2003 mescalito:The old addage'Idle Mind-Idle Body' What comes first?Does the spirit become Idle too? I'd love too hear some theories 'cause it's been in my thoughts lately What I would really like to know is if it is possible to actually have an idle mind, while the body is still alive?I'm not familiar with all the mind states during sleep, but when dreams are occuring there is definitely mind activity. Likewise when you are awake, I guess you are always thinking about things, using your mind to recognize objects, signs, symbols, but at a level that it appears as a subconscious activity, or levels that were leart during a "baby mind" stage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted September 24, 2003 gomaos- i'm not trying to belittle your thoughts-- are you sure? Sometimes I get the feeling you take me for quite a dufus... why? (hey, I'm not really serious, only trying to be funny. Friends!) Because I haven't got a couple of degrees doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about... 1) "energy can neither be created or destroyed" Exactly what I'm on about... Imagine the universe... endless or with end, doesn't matter, no-one knows... It may be only a few hundred billion lightyears in diameter or it may be endless... never mind... Inside this universe are all these various forms of matter and energy, suns, stars, black holes, comets, what have you... all emit some sort of energy (or, in the case of the black hole, anti-energy... an analog to antimatter?) Now the sun's rays may hit a plant on earth and transform into green leaves... energy has been transformed, but it hasn't become less or more, it has become matter, and later it will become energy again... now, all I'm trying to proove... I don't care about nuclear energy, if the formula was originally meant for nuclear physics, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have universal applications... because it does... all I'm trying to proove is that "soul" is energy that resides within every living, organic being. And yes, why wouldn't the aids- virus have some evil, destructive, aggressive soul that knows nothing but preservation and reproduction of it's own race, the race of the aids-virus, and in the process destroys everything in it's path until it destroys the host totally and itself has to die... and yes, I'm talking about the aids-virus here, not about humans... Animals have "soul" plants have "soul" you experience it on entheogens and through meditation, "soul" is an ever-present energy... Look all of this is of course totally hypothetical and can't be proven other than by by deep inner understanding... Ok I'm not a preacherman, don't want to be... my memory is saying it was more to do w/newton- but my memory has been beaten to a pulp by MJ so forget that always blaming the MJ... For myself I have to say I have very good recollection of things that happened 20 or 30 years ago, physical, emotional, "soul-full" things... things that I want to remember.... I admit I read Wilhelm Reich's "The Function of the orgasm" at the tender age of 16, read it at least twice, and by now I only remember the most shocking parts, actually i can't get them out of my mind..., but that's not the fault of mj... I don't remember that because "brain"("soul"?) has classified it as unimportant and sort of "defragmented" it away... What i blame MJ for is that I may now get up here from this computer to get a dish cloth to wipe the desk, and as soon as I arrive in the kitchen, I'll be standing there having forgotten what it was i wanted... short-term-memory-loss, definitely, but long-term? I'll have to think that over very carefully.... Again, all I want to proove is that "soul" is energy, but of course it can't be physically proven, so for materialists there is "no proof". my understanding's been hammered by MJ, so i may well be totally wrong. Again attacking the queen of herbs... (In "Bender" voice:)"I find that offensive" (BTW poppy is the "queen-mother", in my childish imagination that is) "dogs have dog minds", Of course they do. I'm convinced even grass hoppers have minds and souls, but I cruelly kill them by beheading anyway (beheading and feeding to the chucks or spiders) because they slowly torture and sometimes even kill those other lovely beings (the plants) how to you define the cut off point for a soul I don't think there is one. All organic beings have "soul" A rock has no soul. A car has no soul. A robot has no soul. (Sorry, Bender!) -- {damn MJ}-- not again! all the shiviites in this forum will be upset! Not the Queen! "a soul is not something everyone is born with per se, but has to be brought into being by a process of guided self realisation"...or something.--i agree w/that. hmmm... seems to make sense as well. I would call that a "mature soul". love & peace- gomaos love and peace and happiness, brother. And everybody else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitty Posted September 24, 2003 quote: What I would really like to know is if it is possible to actually have an idle mind, while the body is still alive? Meditation my friend... Although after being lax with the, uhh, herbal aids to meditation it's a much harder state to arrive in these days... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted September 24, 2003 Sometimes I get the feeling you take me for quite a dufus... why? (hey, I'm not really serious, only trying to be funny. Friends!) Because I haven't got a couple of degrees doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about... i really hope you are joking, i have no degrees either & would never consider anyone a dufus--damn, we're talking about something so 'up in the air' that nothing we say could be thought ov as "right" or "wrong", just discussion. now back to souls...- so every living thing would have a soul, including the AIDS virus, but a sentient robot, or Pinnochio would have no soul? not sure which religeon-could be hindu- but some believe in the concept ov "old souls"--ie: there are more beings alive now than ever, that means that there aren't enough re-incarnated souls to fill all the new bodies. so most folks are born w/a new soul & only the lucky ones get a re-incarnated "old soul". wilheim reich kicks arse--"listen little man" is my favourite, so much passion. don't care who gets pissed, i'm gonna blame MJ for everything-- because it's easier than blaming my own lack ov faculties. -- take it easy G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted September 25, 2003 i really hope you are joking, of course I am... geezer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted September 25, 2003 that's a relief-- i am aware that you are the person i probably have the most "discussion" w/on this forum. sometimes it's very hard to convey 'tone' in a post; i've actually been on the verge ov PM'ing you several times, just to assure you that however a post sounds there is no malice behind it-- even when we differ i sincerely respect your opinions, wouldn't it be boring if everybody agreed on everything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted September 26, 2003 The very reason I post some of these questions(plus I guess it reflects wgoatm ) There is a difference between an attack and a debate :D If you don't question, then you conform I love watching these threads take off!! [ 26. September 2003, 03:30: Message edited by: mescalito ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted September 26, 2003 wouldn't it be boring if everybody agreed on everything? It would be. Very much so! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
