5-HTP and ZOLOFT

[mindmelt]

Hello.......I take Zoloft and was concerned that maybe if I was to start taking 5-HTP that the two may react,and or ,effect each other in a negative way.Like is it possible to actually have a freak out on 5-HTP,I stopped drinking booze and smoking ciggies a month ago and am just really really bored.I really enjoy popping about 3 Valiums every now and then and was wondering if theres something out there that is similair .Thankyou.

[Tryptameanie]

No unusual reactions are likely but they will have an additive or synergistic effect,as they both raise seretonin levels, and in sufficient dosage could cause "seretonin syndrome". Start with a much lower dose than the reccomended one and work up(preferably waiting a day or so between doses, you don't want to overdose because the effects took longer to kick in than you imagined).

Kava is a pleasant and safe alternative to alcohol or benzos, make sure you get root (whole or powdered from Islander groceries), not the weak, expensive and hepatoxic capsules from the chemist(see the "Kava is safe" thread).

As an occasional recreational drug, I believe that marijuana and MDMA are popular, being safer, and many consider more enjoyable, than alcohol, though of course they should not be used in Australia due to their illegal status.

[mescalito]

Juz be careful, I've been through them all!!

From Avanza-Zoloft-Allegron-Prozac-Lovan-whilst throwing in bezo's for anxiety-Luvox being,the next test!-man all I can say is there is no art to brain chemistry,when it comes to modern medicine

-pot and MDMA are also a great help,if not abused.In regards to pot....all diferent breeds have differing personalities to them- a wild leggy sativa can induce a panic attack, whereas, a true breed have an uplift feel,or a smashed feel.I've heard from many gnomes that know there shit;that a northern lights breed is perfect for it's anti-depressive/anxiety qualities!

Unfortunately that gnome was burned at the stake :D

[Thelema]

HAVE YOU ever tried Serzone?

its an atypical antidepressant with quite an unusual action. Instead of being tricyclic, tetracyclic MAOI or SSRI, its actually a 5HT-2 antagonist. So if your depression is associated with uncontrollable psychotropic urges, then give this baby a go. Will however probably block most lovely chemicals.

[mescalito]

Tell me more Thel??

I've always felt that Dopamine levels were responsible for my depressive phases-but SSRI's make me feel like (what I've been told..) an ecky's like, coming on .e.g. clench/Nystagmus/muscle tension/nausea and decrease in appetite not to mention restless sleep and insomnia :confused:

If THEY accepted the old ways we wouldn't need this pharmaceutical crap :D

BTW Zoloft gave me insomnia; wich is why I's writing now

[ 23. May 2003, 02:41: Message edited by: mescalito ]

[Thelema]

if you're after an anti-d that works on the dopamine system, the only available one is ZYBAN (buproprion) which is a dopamine selective RI.

Easy to get as an anti-smoking aid, impossible to get (at the moment) as a SDRI.

Marketed in the states as an anti-d however as wellbutrin.

[mindmelt]

Thanks for all the suggestions.Where abouts in Aus would be the best/easiest/cheapest way to access the high quality KAVA?...Also as for smoking weed,man Id have less anxiety munching a double dipped getafix.Indica ,sativa.,doesnt matter,cannabis can bring on in me the most extreme anxiety attacks Ive ever experienced .

[Tryptameanie]

Torsten's stuff is good but expensive. If you live in a major city, find an Islander grocery shop and ask at the counter for it. Typical price is $40/kg. Whatever you do, don't get the capsules.

[mescalito]

40 a kilo?? Man! I bin payin' 300 an OZ.........oh you mean kava

The nature of Cannabis is to make you suspicious(paranoid),part of it's personality!!

[t st tantra]

re anxiety attacks,there should be an old thread quoting andrew weil in the natural mind,about positive and negative patterning[paranoia].an understanding of this can change your experiences.

t s t .

[spaced]

mescalito:

SSRI's make me feel like (what I've been told..) an ecky's like, coming on .e.g. clench/Nystagmus/muscle tension/nausea and decrease in appetite not to mention restless sleep and insomnia              :confused:  

Is that something you just have to put up with for the first few weeks which passes or is it permanent? I don't know if anyone caught four corners a few weeks ago on paroxetine - they went through a range of side effects like self mutilation, killing your family - three generations all in one day, and addiction, all of which the manufacturers denied. One shrink believed the withdrawal effects were beneficial in that patients were less likely to stop taking their meds all of sudden.  Similar reactions have been reported with prozac so it is probably common to all SSRIs. And I know what you're all thinking - yeah but they were depressed anyway and that's just what depressed people do. Well, with the paroxetine, studies on the so called "normals" produced similar results.  

 

If THEY accepted the old ways we wouldn't need this pharmaceutical crap     :D  [QB]unfortunately THEY just won't listen. THEY stand to make vast amounts of money and maintain the interest of boureois monotony by drugging and imprisoning heretics and deviants. Get all your books - Grof, Ott's Pharmacotheon etc in hard cover edition and go and educate THEM. The hard cover might come in handy.

[QB]Zoloft gave me insomnia; wich is why I's writing now      

Do you take it morning or afternoon?

[spaced]

Thelema:

if you're after an anti-d that works on the dopamine system, the only available one is ZYBAN (buproprion) which is a dopamine selective RI.

Easy to get as an anti-smoking aid, impossible to get (at the moment) as a SDRI.

Marketed in the states as an anti-d however as wellbutrin.

Dexamphetamine and friends although not particularly dopamine selective have been used in the past as antidepressants - but, what goes up must come down.

[Tryptameanie]

St John's Wort also inhibits dopamine reuptake with the same potency as it does 5-HT and NE(and also GABA)

Wellbutrin inhibits NE reuptake as well as DA.

[mescalito]

WAS taking them in the morning 8 am and getting tired around lunch!

After Dinner......up to 3,4,5 O'clock and had a constant vertigo upon arising(and in my late morning dreams )

BTW my late brother hung himself a lil while back; after abusing his parents that same week-he wasn't the violent type, but was depressed,and on 'you-guessed-it!)

I'm sure an Ayhuasca Ceremony would have shown him the way.

I've had no luck with SIX different types of annie D's-the latest being Luvox(Emp.form=

C15 H21 O2 N2 F3.C4 H4 O4)!I wouldn't put that on toast I'd sooner lick a toad!- the psych said'here's four more that work differently,work your way through them' :confused:

It's a little hard when your emotions are all over the shop and your'e not sleeping/eating/feeling well.Viv'la Ayahuasca!!

[ 25. May 2003, 15:11: Message edited by: mescalito ]

[Tryptameanie]

SJW worked very well for my partner, who had a very negative reaction to both an SSRI(citalopram) and a MAOI(moclobemide). SAMe also increases dopamine levels, it seemed to work for me, and like SJW, it has similiar success rates to the SSRIs in clinical trials. Although I'm reticent to describe the effects from my personal experience( the effects of drugs like this that only work chronically are particularly hard to separate from placebo/suggestion), it seemed to mimic the more positive aspects of amphetamine, ie motivated and clear headed, easy to get out of bed in the morning, without wired jitteriness or teeth clenching etc.

[Thelema]

my own observation, my depression was associated with social anxiety and i found that aropax worked a treat. ive come off them now but the behavioural modifications that aropax encouraged have remained with me. coming off high dose aropax can itself be a trip and a half if you stop them suddenly. i felt like I was on shroom.

[mescalito]

Trust ya gut, if somethings saying don't,then don't mix'em.

Shit man, the doc's don't even know 'why' they work.

Bin through SSRI's,TCA's,combos (all under professional supervision.)

It' hard to know if your'e coming down from one or reacting to the new one

Seems to me- all the thinkers/questioners/Drug (plant/nature sybiosi)users etc. are being afflicted with this quarantine area called "mental illness"

Thelema see oz-pharm thanx!!

[ 26. May 2003, 01:27: Message edited by: mescalito ]

[t st tantra]

or is it depressing to be 'one of us' in the society we live in?

t s t .

[Darklight]

mescalito:

Shit man, the doc's don't even know 'why' they work.

I've seen instances where they don't even know what they ARE. A FOAF went to the local GP for treatment of depression, specifically asking not to be put on SSRI's as a first option. Came away with some tablets to try, and was told they were not an SSRI. He came round and we double checked online, and sure 'nuff even the manufacturer's web page stated that they were an SSRI

He returned to the GP, who again denied they were an SSRI until my FOAF handed him the printout. Then he said he hadn't been aware of it. FOAF said GP had been consulting some sort of printed material at the time of prescription, but I rather suspect it was BRW

A good GP is as rare as any other competent tradesperson I reckon

[ramon]

I guess a professional who is ignorant of the known properties of the medication he is prescribing is bad enough and you are always going to find varying levels of competency amongst any group.

But I do find it very scary that as a profession they are prescribing medications where the literature states that they are unaware or the specific mode of action but they are sure that it works. This mainly relates to the newer antipsychotics.

Not to mention that they are brainwashed / bribed by the pharmaceutical companies with all free gifts under the guise of education and seminars in resorts where have to spend a few hours learning about the new product and the rest of the weekend is all yours. The whole weekend paid for by the drug company.

[Thelema]

MY partner recently had a lucky escape; anti-acne medication was meant to be prescribed but instead the doctor gave beta-blockers at a dangerous level of dosage. given an already pre-existing heart condition, lucky to be alive. Rest assured this doctor will be reported to the AMA or whoever...

[mescalito]

Darklight:

A good GP is as rare as any other competent tradesperson I reckon

I agree- I was a more than competent tradesperson,'till depression took hold of every waking hour

Luckily my Psych/GP/new Soulmate is into altered states,hypnosis,teaching self help techniques,drawing from the collective consciousness,tie-cutting,eye movement desensitisation,laying the past to rest...and empowering people-not really keen on pills either-but tells me they almost always help through the depressive cycle,until you can stand up again

He also LOVES plants :D

I'm definitely going to introduce him to the life altering safe Halucinogens!!

He already is the BEST in our area,with a little more help from the plants of the gods-a true shaman he would be!!

[Sono]

mescalito:

 

Originally posted by Darklight:

[qb] I'm definitely going to introduce him to the life altering safe Halucinogens!!

Why? Do you want him to have a mental illness too, you darklight.

If you want good anti-depressants that are safe, natural and friendly, try:

L-Tryptophan

L-Tyrosine

Both are amino acids and when combined are fantastic and I think what you are looking for.

Apart from its role in the synthesis of proteins, tyrosine is important as the precursor of the neurotransmitter dopamine.

In addition to its role in protein synthesis Tryptophan serves as a precursor for seratonin and melatonin.

www.goldenglow.com.au - L-Tryptophan is $13.00 and L-Tyrosine is $16.60, discount if you buy a larger quantity - usually arrives in under a week.

I can't believe people with no medical, chemistry or science qualifications and a history of mental illness are prescribing 'anti-depresant' formulas for other people (as if they are 'in the know'). WTF

[Darklight]

Um, Sono, that weren't me that said that... please check my post again.

And while I totally agree with your recommendation of l-tyrosine and l-tryptophan here ( personally Golden Glow is a bit low dose at 90mg I think it is, but you need a script here to get anything stronger, or just take more ) other people's experiences are valid, no one is prescribing anythng as such- pesonal recommendations are a completely different matter

[mescalito]

I really don't think there are any real 'safe' anti-depressants out there...I mean nobody is the same-at all!!

SSRI's have given me HELL over the last???????????-my memory's fucked

Be careful with these chems

Individual life experiences,ie-poisons(spiritual/mental or physical),alter your ability to deal

I do believe that altering perception is everything we all need to do.

I'd sooner be a pot smoking/self medicating/nature loving/gardening/drunk,who loves his family.......

than a chemically lobotomised "comfortably numb" member of 'society'watching people argue

live @ 1 am :mad: