Jack Posted April 3, 2003 Well i guess it all began on Saturday nite, in the dream I had I smoked some crystal meth, then went out on a boat party, The nite began ok, but the usual sleazy hard-house/trance scene. I had 150mg mdma followed by some shiva. The guys were quite sleazy and in your personal space my partner was grabbed by this guy around the waist and I guess that is what set me off. There was a handfull of sleazy rather large steriod taking muscle men, that were dancing right up close to my beloved and being generally sleazy and trying to intimidate me by surrounding me at times, this really bothered me being quite protective (and male) I started dancing between them whenever they came too close to her. I did this not because I dont trust her, but because I dont trust them. I dont like what they do, how they go about doing it and dont like the uncomfortable/agressive feeling that they cause everyone, and especially the way they treat all women. The whole nite for me was a constant struggle with them invading personal space and with myself to try and stay calm and remain sane. After all this happend we arrived back at the harbour and there were 10 police waiting for the boat to dock, this sent my already high adrenalin levels sky rocketing as it turns out they were waiting to arrest a couple of people that caused fights on the boat. After that the paranoid delusions really set in, I thought people were following me, someone had put somthing in the exhaust of my car, we went to another club and i would park the car and think that someone had seen me and drive off. Then once I found what I thought was a safe spot I still wouldnt get out of the car thinking that people had seen us ect. I was able to get to sleep Sunday night and the nights after but would wake at like 5am ish with the mind straight back into overdrive. I had to take a few days of work. The night was living hell. Its taken me till yesterday (4 days) to get back to normal, I had 1gram of glutamine yesterday and it quitened my mind down. Up till then I still kept replaying events over and over in my head, I wish I had of thought about the glutamine when i got home on sunday. So i guesss what I went through was psychosis/ paranoid delusions.. not very nice. Glutamine brought back my sanity. lets just say that I wont be dreaming about going out for a while. [ 03. April 2003, 12:20: Message edited by: Jack ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 4, 2003 taking tyrosine will make your trip more positive and will remove most of the paranoia and the delusional comedown. The 'upside' is that it will also make you peak harder, ie prolong the drug effect. But the good thing is that the whoel experience is so much more happy/content/sociable/etc. Paranoia during amphetamine use is caused by an imbalance between adrenaline and dopamine, with the former going disproportionately higher than the latter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sono Posted April 22, 2003 How does tyrosine contribute to more Dopamine being produced in the brain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted April 22, 2003 L-Tyrosine is metabolised by your body and turned into dopamine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted April 22, 2003 OR maybe tyrosine has a retarding effect on adrenalin production. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 22, 2003 Thelema that doesn't make any sense. Firstly it is the building block for both dopamine and adrenaline, and secondly dopamine is NOT an antagonist for adrenaline (quite the contrary actually as increased dopamine usually also increases adrenaline somewhat). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted April 22, 2003 Things may not be so simple: 1) rate of production of adrenalin may exceed the rate of rate of production of dopamine per bloodstream quota tyrosine from time zero. Rate of molecular creation through liver etc.. plays a part. But I guess this is missing your point, Torsten. I am convinced that the subjective experience has more to do with the RELATIVE differences between neural-"transmittors" rather than their ABSOLUTE differences. But conviction isn't reason, and ill get back to you all. So in this case we should not ask "is tyrosine a 'building block'" for adrenaline and dopamine, BUT: what is the dopamine/adrenaline ratio since time zero? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tryptameanie Posted April 22, 2003 I am very interested in this. Please do get back if you find anything. Did you have any info on this Torsten, or were you just guessing from personal experience? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Thelema: I am convinced that the subjective experience has more to do with the RELATIVE differences between neural-"transmittors" rather than their ABSOLUTE differences. I fully agree. However in this case that made no difference. The notion of relative levels is essential and well documented actually. eg, a high dopamine level with very low adrenaline level can cause psychotic behaviour. A high adrenaline level with very low dopamine and low serotonin causes uncontrollable anxiety. bring up the serotonin on that last one and the anxiety becomes transient. Bring up the dopamine a little and the whole thing turns into euphoria. The problem with relative levels is that it means every person has different baselines, so if you don't know a person's baseline then you also don't know when his levels are out of whack. As baselines can be out of whack already in childhood, the idea of baselines is really an arbitrary concept. It doesn't make the research any easier... in fact it is the main reason why they aren't making much headway in this field I think. So in this case we should not ask "is tyrosine a 'building block'" for adrenaline and dopamine, BUT: what is the dopamine/adrenaline ratio since time zero? not so simple either. You are assuming that the person was totally balanced at time zero. Surely a person with an elevated adrenaline level (maybe minor anxiety disorder) is more likely to have escalating adrenaline levels and these may not be that different from 'time zero'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Tryptameanie: Did you have any info on this Torsten, or were you just guessing from personal experience? Lots of personal experience and experience with other people. Not a lot of hard science sadly as there aren't any 'standards' or easy ways of measuring things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loaded Posted April 23, 2003 Intriguing. Torsten could you link me to some documentation on tyrosine and dopamine level adjustment? Is the case you stated with speed the same as that for mdma? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loaded Posted April 24, 2003 Also, do benzos have any potential for terminating psychosis? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted April 24, 2003 Jack: Well i guess it all began on Saturday nite, in the dream I had I smoked some crystal meth, then went out on a boat party, The nite began ok, but the usual sleazy hard-house/trance scene. I had 150mg mdma followed by some shiva. Who does such things to begin with? :D Protecting a lady, how nice of you! Ahhhhh and the wonders of placebo. [ 24. April 2003, 11:39: Message edited by: brian ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted April 24, 2003 On-Lucid: Also, do benzos have any potential for terminating psychosis? I'd say so since they are widely used in psychiatry...maybe not to terminate a psychosis, but rather to relieve it a little.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 25, 2003 Originally posted by On-Lucid: Intriguing. Torsten could you link me to some documentation on tyrosine and dopamine level adjustment? Nope. I did most of my web research too long ago for any links to still be active. However you will find plenty in the field of harm minimisation and "dopamine precurosr". Is the case you stated with speed the same as that for mdma? To some extent. MDMA acts on serotonin and dopamine. However it's adrenaline effects are minimal. Thus the come down effect is the combination of low serotonin and low dopamine. However, the stimulant action does have some effect on adrenaline too. Anyway, tyrosine will help for both dopamine and adrenaline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted April 25, 2003 Originally posted by On-Lucid: Also, do benzos have any potential for terminating psychosis? Most definitely. I used to knock myself out with a short acting benzo such as temazepam after extremely heavy weekends that resulted in continuing psychosis . This is often simply due to the fact that you can't get to sleep, so knocking yourself out for 4 hours is a good thing. Benzos are usually prescribed for adrenaline related problems such as anxiety. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soma8 Posted May 2, 2003 hmmm... Maybe I never used enough to get psychosis when I used to use it... buuuut... I tend to adopt the same policy that gets you through a bad trip of any other sort - be aware that your state is making you prone to this kind of ideation. I had a very odd experience once with this stuff where I discovered that an attitude of acceptance seemed to flood my brain with blissful yumminess. I feel that meth is mildly psychedelic, and the presence of extreme euphoria and paranoid delusions is a feature that is also present in psychedelics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
