Bwiti / Iboga initiation doco on cable/sattellite

[Torsten]

National Geographic channel, now and at 3am.

This is a fascinating doco giving a good insight into the uniqueness of the iboga cult.

[Darklight]

Will you tape it for me pleeeease?

[Torsten]

I taped it ages ago. It is compulsary viewing at wandjina

[spiraleyes]

good doco-thought the title was a bit much though.

its sad to see what the missionaries have done.

but ya get that.

is the experience of ibolga at all like any other plant?

how would it best be described in words? (torsten)

[spiraleyes]

did you see the scorpion doco beforehand?

see them giving birth to live young,ha

those centipedes freak me out.up to a foot long. (shudders)

it gives birth to itself then eats its own skin.perfect

[DreamingNagual]

MOJO'S Sister was gonna tape it for him but couldnt work out how to set the video

[Torsten]

Originally posted by spiraleyes:

good doco-thought the title was a bit much though.

yeah, but considering mainstream it is prolly the title that gets most people watching.

is the experience of ibolga at all like any other plant?

no. It has nuances of other indole plants like yohimbe, shrooms, LSA, but even using all of these as guides still doesn't come close to what iboga does.

how would it best be described in words? (torsten)

eeek! for starters, it's a 36 hours or more experience, so I am not going to elaborate too much

I think just like any other trip, it very much depends on the individual and their transmitter levels. I know some people freak out pretty badly and others really enjoy it. The most impotant aspect is probably the intensity and the duration. Both contribute to a very deep experience that does not allow you to hide much from yourself. A common thread in most experiences is that one experiences a sense of purpose and understanding of society, which can be very healing. Physically and mentally very taxing.

In low doses it is great for going to raves

[spiraleyes]

sounds good-bad desirable-fearful,

36 hours WHAA

someday

what size doses are used for breaking addictions opiates etc?

if i take it at raves,will i dance like that?

awesome moves

oh and torsten,one thing ive noticed with you,is that taking anything at raves is good

[This message has been edited by spiraleyes (edited 27 September 2002).]

[Torsten]

Originally posted by spiraleyes:

what size doses are used for breaking addictions opiates etc?

without looking it up..... I think about 400mg of pure alkaloid.

oh and torsten,one thing ive noticed with you,is that taking anything at raves is good

oooops! busted

There is a time, place and headspace for everything. My experiences with very low dose iboga extracts at raves were fantastic. Very clear mind, minor phosphene type visuals, warm glow, and a nice feeling of being 'out there' without lacking any control. It is pure energy when taken in small doses and can keep you dancing for 2 or 3 days non stop with one or two tiniest doses. This is the stuff to take when you want to rave without loosing the plot.

I would never advocate high doses of this in any public setting. Even in its traditional context the initiant stays in solitude for most of the trip. I suppose once used to the effects and experienced in the twists and turns, a social trance dance is quite suitable. I would not regard raves as safe enough for this though.

The rave is my church. Techno my gospel. And the drugs my sacraments. Sure, I have tried to find the best in each substance in relation to raves. This does not mean that they are suitable for everyone. Like last weekend i saw some people on ayahuasca at a bush doof and they were utterly boring, unsociable, and generally looked like they were having a miserable time. What's the point of that?? if you're not having the time of your life every weekend, then why bother with it? Surely if introspection is the aim then there are much more suitable settings.

I also have some reservations about other drugs at raves. I am even critical of the purpose of MDMA at raves. This appears to be much more suitable for a small group and in a comfy setting (homeparties). Not so with MDA however, which needs to get 'out there'. I would never take salvia, or any downers at raves. There was a time when a combo of coke and cannabis was popular - for f*cks sake....why??

Speed is usually heaps of fun in the early hours, but later on it is boring and it makes people boring. Worse even when it makes them aggressive.

So no, I certainly don't approve of all drugs at raves and I think that some are underestimated just the same as others are overestimated. I also don't find raves as safe, nurturing and peaceful as they were 10 years ago. Much has changed as rave has come close to the mainstream. But whenever an underground goes mainstream, a new underground develops. I am looking forward to it

[spiraleyes]

quite a spill T

the trance tribe here in adelaide is really cool.

lots of friendly secretive sharing freaks.

right place,right substance,right dose,right time is certainly the key.

what effects does 400mg have in 'trip' like effects.

or is that to small for these effects?

it doesnt sound small.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by spiraleyes:

quite a spill T

I get a little passionate, especially about the rave scene. It was a major part of my life for the last 14 years. In almost all aspects of it.

the trance tribe here in adelaide is really cool.

lots of friendly secretive sharing freaks.

Yeah, I've met a few of the adelaide crew. It seems they were lagging behind a little bit, but turns out this is a good thing.

right place,right substance,right dose,right time is certainly the key.

with anything , yes.

what effects does 400mg have in 'trip' like effects.

or is that to small for these effects?

it doesnt sound small.

Oooops. no this is NOT a small dose. This is a large dose. Small doses are 5-40mg.

Large dose visuals effects are of the 'true hallucination' type. This means they are not simply distortions and light-plays of the actual field of vision, but rather total manifestations of thigns/people/spirits that aren't there. I think taking a medium dose of this would be quite frightening as one might try to retain some control. The good thing about high doses is that you have no choice but to give up. The feeling of dying and being in a different realm is very distinct. There are fun elements to almost any drug experience, but not this one. It is hard work from the very beginning right through to the end. I find the long and exhausting tail end counterproductive in terms of addiction treatment and it would be good to develop a way of terminating the trip after the main block of 15 hours, as long as this method does not diminish the 'afterglow', which once again (in my opinion) is a significant part of addiction treatment.

I have never experienced the 'telepathic' effect that harmaline is claimed to have (hence the alternate name telepathine), but I would think that this effect is similar to the connectedness experienced in an iboga trip. Connectedness to a world we don't experience in any other form, consisting of both the real world and an ancestral spirit world. Much of what i read about australian aboriginal culture reminds me of the way I felt on iboga.

No comparison to any other drug or non-drug-perception can do iboga any justice.

[gomaos]

Originally posted by Torsten:

The rave is my church. Techno my gospel. And the drugs my sacraments.

And God is a Dj.

if you're not having the time of your life every weekend, then why bother with it?

Jeez I envy you (younger)folks.

I never have the time of my life on any weekend.

All I ever do(on weekends)is worry about and look after and try to restrain teenagers.

And I'm sick of it.

I'm gonna crack soon.

(I know all this is off topic, but I just had to put it here.

BTW only one of my 2 ibogas survived the winter...)

[woof woof woof]

Originally posted by Torsten:

I have never experienced the 'telepathic' effect that harmaline is claimed to have (hence the alternate name telepathine), but I would think that this effect is similar to the connectedness experienced in an iboga trip.

___________________________________________

I have experienced many telepatic situations on and off drugs. Meditation (focus on innerself) + psychedelicacies = lots of telepathy.... < for me.

I think telepathy comes from having a good inner awareness. Which prolly means that all transmittors are being properly counter balanced when they occur initially.

So fine tuning yourself is all there is to it.

[This message has been edited by brian (edited 29 September 2002).]

[Torsten]

Originally posted by gomaos:

And God is a Dj.

na, the DJ is GOD

Jeez I envy you (younger)folks.

I never have the time of my life on any weekend.

I actually meant that you should have the time of your life every weekend that you go out (not every weekend as such). What's the point of going out, taking drugs and having a crap time??

I am over the every weekend thingy too. been out about 6 times in the last 12 months!!, so that's not an impressive number by any standards. You've got kids to keep you busy, and I've got plants

Brian, I fully agree. I wasn't talking about not having had telepathic experiences. I was specifically referring to such experiences on harmaline. I don't like the physical effect of harmaline, so my experiments with it were not enjoyable as such.

[gomaos]

Originally posted by Torsten:

You've got kids to keep you busy, and I've got plants

Luckily I've got plants too. They're so much more relaxing (than kids)...

[MrBumpy]

Luckily I've got plants too. They're so much more relaxing (than kids)...

You're telling me...you should have seen the trouble I went through after I tried to smoke my neighbours kid

[Guest reville]

Originally posted by Torsten:

I don't like the physical effect of harmaline, so my experiments with it were not enjoyable as such.

maybe you should stick to harmine then.

capi is so much cleaner

[Torsten]

Originally posted by reville:

maybe you should stick to harmine then.

capi is so much cleaner

ahh crap. hate not having my books handy.

i thought caapi contains both! thus the alternate name telepathine for the harmaline alkaloid.

My experiment was with purified harmala alkaloids (yes from peganum, but with all the toxic alkaloids removed).

Can't say I enjoy caapi either, but willing to give it another try sometime.