US Government shutdown

[Halcyon Daze]

Straight from the horse's mouth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMpHmy26M4Q

[Halcyon Daze]

[Sallubrious]

A few of my relatives are in the US for a holiday and it's ruined it for them. A lot of the things wanted to see are closed.

Although I understand the process that's lead to this debacle, it seems ludicrous that one issue can affect the the day to day running of a nation.

Over here if a bill gets knocked back twice we'd have a double dissolution trigger for an election.

How could a president be so determined to force his will on people that he'd push the point to this extent. If you were struggling with mortgage payments it could mean losing your house.

From what I've read of the Obama-care legislation it has the capacity to bankrupt a lot of individuals and weigh the nation down with even more debt.

[goneski]

And the population being converted from full to part time to avoid Obamacare. It's basically another exercise in the transference of wealth and the eradication of the middle class. It complements Quantitative Easing (Round 23492034 or Round infinity?) quite well.

The economy (on a global level) is fucked. At this point, the Americans are just kicking the can down the road.

In one sense, as nihilistic as it sounds, I actually look forward to the next reset. It's fucking sickening the way the economy is so debt-fueled and how they end up in crippling amounts of debt only to further inflate asset bubbles (housing!). Of course though, the downside is that banks will be bailed out (or bailed in, if Cyprus is any indication of what the future holds).

Unfortunately, history will just keep on repeating itself.

Edited October 3, 2013 by goneski

[Halcyon Daze]

it seems ludicrous that one issue can affect the the day to day running of a nation.

How could a president be so determined to force his will on people that he'd push the point to this extent.

The way I see it, this is a small group of extreme right-wingers holding the government hostage over an issue that has been 30 years coming, 3 years in the crafting, passed the high courts and finally went to a hard fought election over and the people spoke decisively.

Lets face it, the tea party was a grass-roots movement that has been totally hijacked by multi-millionares to do their dirty work. They just want to keep their dirty hands on the money at the expense of sick and suffering people, and they're willing to hold the knife to the neck of the country.

Besides, the funding issue will come up again in a couple of months and then again around christmas. There's no way the Tea party is going to resolve anything, they will just pull the same stunt again and again.

There's a reason they say don't negotiate with terrorists, because you give them an inch and they'll take a mile. And it's not even over an ideologial dilemma either, it's all about the money for the millionares who prop up the tea party.

As for the unusual structure of the Affordable Care Act, there are some really bizzare things about the US system. If they were to simply convert to a system like the rest of the world then they would have to compensate the big corporations for money lost due to their law changes. This would be in the order of billions and is not economically viable by a long way. the way around this is to make insurance compulsory and compensate the people based on their socio-economic status. A nice move in a game of chess and by the way, this structure wont last too long, it's just the first step toward a far better and simpler system.

This croocked mess is actually one of Nixon's dodgy legacies. It's good to see the US is actually freeing itself from this trap

As for the debt, it's quite simple why the US would favour stimulus over austerity, (ie favour debt over cuts). Because this was a major lesson learned in the 1930 great depression, a soft landing is better than a hard one, and it's actually working nicely for the countries who chose stimulus. The US economy is on the way up again and lets not blame the democrats for causing the GFC, they've only guided the US through on the advice that the republicans would have also taken. The EU on the other hand took austerity to solve their problems and their economies have ground to a halt and it's a disaster like the 1930's depression (almost). Would you have preferred that for your friends in the US?

Anyway, it's not a Republican vs Democrat thing at all, but the Republicans are certainly trying to capitalise like the opportunistic self harming vulture terrorist-leeches that they are.

[goneski]

Recovery? What recovery? All I'm seeing is Bernanke blowing asset bubbles (S&P500 and other markets, and now property... again.. *sigh*), and a stagnant, sluggish labour market with VERY skewed official statistics (oh hai guys.. unemployment is down!.. except not really, and job creation has been largely part time.. yay for lack of job security).. and, MOAR DEBT! Who gives a shit about debt, when you can just inflate it away?

The large divergences between consumer spending and confidence, construction, unemployment and various markets hitting all-time highs is incredibly grotesque. Not to mention how distorted and fucking ruined markets are thanks to algorithmic trading and large hedge funds (see nanex.net for in-depth analysis on different techniques used, including examples of market crashes)

If anyone thinks it's a game of red vs blue, they're a moron. Bankers run the show. Political affiliation means sweet FA anymore (did they ever?)

Edited October 3, 2013 by goneski

[Halcyon Daze]

Well I'm all for power to the people and I hardly accept the notion that the Dems and the GOP are all the same. Otherwise these extreme situations wouldn't be happening. It's not the first time the Republicans have shut down the government either.

In this game of chess, the tea party have flipped the table and pulled out their guns, what an embarrassment for the GOP, to team up with extremists.

The tea party is now on a suicide mission. No-one will vote for them next time, and that's not good news for the Republicans. But who's going to try and stop them LOL.

The House speaker Boehner isn't even in charge of his speech notes.

"The President provided, uh, a one-year delay of the employer mandate," he said. "He's provided exceptions, uh, for unions, uh, and others. Uh, there's even an exception for members of Congress. Uh, we believe that, uh, everyone should be treated fairly, and so we're going to move, uh, here in the next several hours, uh, to take, uh, the – the Senate bill, ah, add to it, uh, a one-year delay of the individual mandate on the American people."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/republican-rumps-demands--force-shutdown-leave-leader-john-boehner-speechless-20131002-2us6y.html

Republicans are killing America and everybody's seen it now.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Halcyon Daze

[bogfrog]

Pentagon Warns to Expect "Radical" Change in US Government Soon:

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/10/pentagon-warns-to-expect-radical-change-in-us-government-soon/

"According to this MoFA bulletin, GRU intelligence assests were notified by their Pentagon counterparts this past week that President Barack Obama is preparing to invoke the powers given to him under 50 USC Chapter 13 to hold that various American States are now in a state of insurrection thus allowing him to invoke the National Emergencies Act under 50 USC § 1621 and invoke the highly controversial continuity of government plan for the United States allowing him, in essence, to rule with supreme powers."

Sinister.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Ceres

[Halcyon Daze]

I think what the tea party is doing is pure treason. If Obama decides to invoke emergency laws then fair enough. The whole thing is a joke and the tea party need their asses kicked and put in jail.

[bogfrog]

I get what your saying about the tea party, but I dunno if Obama deserves the benefit of the doubt here.. Considering his track record and all the fishy shit that has been going on.

Maybe i have just assimilated too many different theories into my brain, and i'm sorry for even posting here becuase i dont understand the intricacies of the situation, but to me this situation immediately seemed like a fissard to cover much more sinsiter agendas.

I just feel like things are about to get really fuckin nasty in the US.

[goneski]

I get what your saying about the tea party, but I dunno if Obama deserves the benefit of the doubt here.. Considering his track record and all the fishy shit that has been going on.

Maybe i have just assimilated too many different theories into my brain, and i'm sorry for even posting here becuase i dont understand the intricacies of the situation, but to me this situation immediately seemed like a fissard to cover much more sinsiter agendas.

I just feel like things are about to get really fuckin nasty in the US.

Yep. The Red vs Blue team thing is BS. In my opinion, it's merely a tactic to divide and distract.

[Sallubrious]

I think most people don't even know of the implications of this bill.

The US constitution has clauses regarding federal "enumerated" powers. Those powers include establishing federal courts and post offices and things like deploying armies and navies etc.

Most other powers are controlled by the states.

If this bill goes through (and is upheld in the Supreme Court) then the Federal government will have the power to bypass the current constitutional laws and assume total control over everything. With the provisions Bush put in place(and others not mentioned) outlined above Ceres, this will bypass all congressional checks and balances and give supreme power to one man who we all know is an installed puppet.

In the words or Randy Barnett of Georgetown Law School regarding the implications of this bill
“Congress can assert any power it wills over individuals so long as it delegates enforcement of the penalty to the IRS.”

IRS raids have become somewhat akin to drug raids or swat teams, they come in with helmeted officers wearing flak jackets and have the power to shoot anyone that opposes them.

With a stacked Supreme court it's hard to see any hope on the horizon there, so I see the Replublicans as holding the last chance of hope for any chance of freedom the people of US the might ever have.

If this goes through the US will be on the fast track to the conditions seen in Russia during the Bolshevik revolution, they already have the intrusive surveillance systems in place and IRS officers carrying guns, and FEMA concentration camps complete with coffins.

This is Fascism disguised as care - scary times for the blue planet.

[whitewind]

so I see the Replublicans as holding the last chance of hope for any chance of freedom the people of US the might ever have.

You really, really think the Republicans wouldn't actually be part of any illuminati/corporate takeover of the US?

They are not independent any more than anyone else in that godforsaken country.

And if you think a whole bunch of loonies with awesomely big guns but who are intrinsically incapable of working as a community (SOCIALISM!!) let alone part of a working team (dad's army) stands a pissing chance against the technological might US military you're having a laugh, no matter what the constitution says.

[Sallubrious]

You really, really think the Republicans wouldn't actually be part of any illuminati/corporate takeover of the US?

They are not independent any more than anyone else in that godforsaken country.

And if you think a whole bunch of loonies with awesomely big guns but who are intrinsically incapable of working as a community (SOCIALISM!!) let alone part of a working team (dad's army) stands a pissing chance against the technological might US military you're having a laugh, no matter what the constitution says.

No way, I don't think they aren't part of the agenda, but right now they're the only thing delaying the democrats totalitarian bill. The Republicans are for the most part under the control of the same type of corporate influences as the Democrats. It could be argued that are controlled by different factions but it's very complicated these days.

That country is fucked whichever way you look at it.

[DiscoStu]

i was reading this today, puts somethings in perspective

a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning

[DiscoStu]

technological might US military

not just military, the state cops are becoming increasingly militarised as well,

basically any armed resistance would be totally annihilated within days, with extreme prejudice

[goneski]

The Republicans are for the most part under the control of the same type of corporate influences as the Democrats. It could be argued that are controlled by different factions but it's very complicated these days.

Exactly. Follow the (paper) money trail to the central bankers / Wall St.

Plenty of reading on http://www.zerohedge.com for those who aren't up to speed.

Edited October 9, 2013 by goneski

[Heretic]

Something similar occurred in Australia when the Libs blocked supply and got rid of Whitlam ....