K Rudd comeback!

[Halcyon Daze]

^^true that

But on the other hand, she is a bit butch so it's a fair enough question when targeting the 'yobbo' vote.

I wouldn't put it beyond them.

[DELETED ACCOUNT]

I'm waiting for the radio presenters to ask Kevin Rudd if his wife is a lesbian.

Dare they, dare they?

Heh, are there any radio presenters as disgraceful as Howard Sattler who might dare ask such a question? Hmmm...

[ThunderIdeal]

did anyone have a pretty good understanding of the events leading up to rudd's deposition?

i'm curious if there's more to the story than my basic understanding because IIRC he was very popular up until the mining companies threw some dollars at influencing public opinion. i think i've missed some stuff which happens when you don't watch tv, or was it just a case of "this guy is unpopular, we might do better in the next election if we replace him with julia"?

i don't know... i think it's a shame the mining companies were able to dodge that bullet because it could have been a great benefit to australia (we've got the minerals! mining companies can't just dig a hole somewhere else because it suits them). maybe it's me who has the short memory but that to me is the one big failure of the ALP in this century, yes there has been various fuckups along the way but they've pushed some serious items through, even just recently, and against the odds... don't forget the national broadband network, what a boon for this country who has lagged behind the rest of the world for so long with internet quality/quantity.

as far as realistic options (eg the two party system isn't going anywhere soon) i get the impression that where it actually counts, the ALP has done EXCEPTIONALLY so somebody please explain to me because i'm ignorant, looking past any surface level bullshit that the media yammers on about, internal bickering, claims of illegal doings twenty years ago, looking past all of the bullshit that doesn't actually impact how the ALP has performed, please tell me why australia wants to sack them.

[DELETED ACCOUNT]

... looking past any surface level bullshit that the media yammers on about, internal bickering, claims of illegal doings twenty years ago, looking past all of the bullshit that doesn't actually impact how the ALP has performed, please tell me why australia wants to sack them.

I think that all the 'surface level bullshit' the media pushes, along with the hoards of dodgy labour ministers (particularly in NSW, poor Kristina Keneally!) actually count for a lot more than you might think. I dare say the general public base most of their opinions on what they perceive via the media, which is a shame in a way, because being a little closer to the action here in Canberra where I'm privy to some inner workings, I also think the ALP have done a fine job, particularly Julia Gillard and her many thousands of public servant departmentees.

On another note, the internal bickering also counts for quite a lot -- I hear that Rudd is a flat-out first-class c*nt to work with.

[Halcyon Daze]

It was a worry when Rudd was knifed, the Mining Tax was a big threat to many powerful people who pulled strings behind the scenes, that's why I'm not a Labor voter, but the main reason I'll be happy to see Labor re-elected is to finish the job.

I like almost everything they've done, especially the small but significant steps towards renewables, and more importantly for me is the Broadband. Because quite simply, the NBN will smash the stranglehold the right-wing media has on delivering the truth to the masses.

That alone will change politics in future and this is why Abbott is desperate to block the NBN. The Media is Abbott's most powerful weapon, in the same way that it was also Hitler's most powerful weapon.

Like many of history's great fiends, I think Abbott is obsessive and hell bent on gaining power at any cost, and I would prefer anyone over him. IMO he's the single greatest threat the the future of the nation.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Halcyon Daze

[Scarecrow]

i really don't understand why everyone's making such a big deal about who's the head assclown of australia.

the IMPORTANT thing to realize from this whole fiasco is that the people you vote for are simply puppets, and have absolutely no say in what happens. that means it doesn't matter who you vote for, because even if they have the best policies ever conceived, they're still just a figurehead with next to no real power. a disposable cardboard face stuck on to "the machine" that we have all been made into cogs for. people think the old face is getting ugly? better replace it with a new one! (and then keep doing the same shit)

it doesn't matter who we vote for, nothing will change. the people we vote for are part of parties which just want more power, and, given the opportunity, they're going to take more power by slowly sucking our rights (and wallets) out of us like leeches.

the heads of parties just create a smokescreen, bickering and creating a whole big drama, just to distract people from what's really going on.

we have other parties that aren't so compromised, but it's actually entirely impossible for them to win, because it's a two party system. these parties are allowed to exist because they give the impression that we have the option to choose a better party, but really we don't.

the fact that this is all blindingly obvious is even more depressing. people go around sucking television's dick so much that they just let it tell them what to think, instead of looking at things critically for themselves.

...and this is why i intend to secede from society as soon as i can, fuck everything

Edited June 28, 2013 by Scarecrow

[glimpse]

...and this is why i intend to secede from society as soon as i can, fuck everything

[whitewind]

I'm not sure I entirely agree, Scarecrow. Seceding from society is all well and good (great for spiritual and emotional development, as I well know) but society still carries on, barely notices you're missing. Unless you take hundreds, thousands with you and start again. But without something to trade with the existing civilization all around you, you would be back to subsistence type living. Trust me, I've done research. Fresh water, food, clothing, timber and building materials.. and the tools to acquire them all come from thousands of years of civilization. Can we shuck off the ties of knowledge and start again? Do you really want to?

Sometimes the major parties do have good policies, especially left-wing ones which should be (and used to be more so in the past_ more socialist, community orientated, taking tax and sharing it around kind of behaviour. Without that pressure, the right wing capitalists would have gone nuts. We know what happens when capitalism is at work,here we have "good" capitalism, where we all have to work our socks off and be part of the system, and get our little carrots when we do what's right.

"Bad" capitalism is where the goodies aren't shared around so well, and people get really fucked up.

Neither is very good for us, but if we get back to politics it's actually the impact of the economic system which is so devastating to all parties. 99% of the policies are impacted by the mighty $ which means they are ineffective and hard to manage. If we had a steady state economy with much greater sharing, the policies espoused by the left wing would be fantastic, and the right wing groups essentially wouldn't HAVE any proposals. They would be extinct, except the Tony Abbotts of this world would likely continue try to impose religious and moralistic nonsense on us instead of economic slavery.

[qualia]

the IMPORTANT thing to realize from this whole fiasco is that the people you vote for are simply puppets, and have absolutely no say in what happens.

not true, representatives still have a vote on the floor of HoR or the senate. whether that vote makes a difference is another story.

it doesn't matter who we vote for, nothing will change.

disagree again. since 2k7 we've had arguably many good reforms, tax reforms, ndis, higher pensions, dental health scheme, carbon pricing (despite your political views it does as advertised). i'm fairly certain we'd have none of those things if the country stayed with howard and the lnp.

the heads of parties just create a smokescreen, bickering and creating a whole big drama, just to distract people from what's really going on.

what is really going on? agree the personality contest of pm is a furphy, perpetuated by the media to distract from more in depth discussion.

we have other parties that aren't so compromised, but it's actually entirely impossible for them to win, because it's a two party system. these parties are allowed to exist because they give the impression that we have the option to choose a better party, but really we don't.

2pp is a bit shit. but it only comes into play if you vote 1 above the line in the senate, which most australians don't. but still, you have the ability to avoid it yourself if you do so choose (House of reps ballot is different). there were lots of greens senator elected in 2k10, enough to give them the balance of power in the senate. however people have let themselves be dictated to my msm that the greens are "extreme" and "dangerous" or whatever, and as such their result will go backward this year. however the greens were instrumental in bringing in some of the reforms we've had this electoral cycle, reforms which the electorate has shown to appreciate.

the fact that this is all blindingly obvious is even more depressing. people go around sucking television's dick so much that they just let it tell them what to think, instead of looking at things critically for themselves.

lol. all 100% true.

anyway the point is the system is not necessarily rigid, it's just intellectual laziness on the part of the australian electorate which lends itself to the current situation we have.

[Distracted]

i really don't understand why everyone's making such a big deal about who's the head assclown of australia.

the IMPORTANT thing to realize from this whole fiasco is that the people you vote for are simply puppets, and have absolutely no say in what happens. that means it doesn't matter who you vote for, because even if they have the best policies ever conceived, they're still just a figurehead with next to no real power. a disposable cardboard face stuck on to "the machine" that we have all been made into cogs for. people think the old face is getting ugly? better replace it with a new one! (and then keep doing the same shit)

it doesn't matter who we vote for, nothing will change. the people we vote for are part of parties which just want more power, and, given the opportunity, they're going to take more power by slowly sucking our rights (and wallets) out of us like leeches.

the heads of parties just create a smokescreen, bickering and creating a whole big drama, just to distract people from what's really going on.

we have other parties that aren't so compromised, but it's actually entirely impossible for them to win, because it's a two party system. these parties are allowed to exist because they give the impression that we have the option to choose a better party, but really we don't.

the fact that this is all blindingly obvious is even more depressing. people go around sucking television's dick so much that they just let it tell them what to think, instead of looking at things critically for themselves.

...and this is why i intend to secede from society as soon as i can, fuck everything

So you do reckon some vested interest will decide whether we get a fiber optic cable, independently of whoever is in parliament at the time?

I think the rise in independent parties is promising, i helped get Xenophon into SA's parliament where he got two seats and had to choose someone else to take the seat in his name, then helped him get into the senate afterwards too.

I think if more people realise if they vote for an independent who actually wants to put initiatives that contribute to their local area, rather than just look at issues that people all over australia are talking about... then our country will get a bit better. People stand to gain more by not voting for a party, all depending on who you vote for of course

I'm not sticking my head in the dirt here and trying to say everything works perfectly, of course the system is fucked... but that doesn't mean it will always be fucked.

[LokStok]

@scarecrow, that level of resignation & cynicism is just a pretty handy justification to cop out & do nothing.

Actually, its form of apathy thats common in affluent 1st world countries like ours

@distracted, i couldnt agree more with your take on voting in independents. Xenophon is a shining example!

[glimpse]

Actually, its form of apathy thats common in affluent 1st world countries like ours

all the ones with just as shitty a two party system i would guess

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=D5gXRPXs0PQ

edit: i feel rudd v abbott is more a case of 2 shit sandwiches though

Edited June 28, 2013 by glimpse

[Scarecrow]

I'm not sure I entirely agree, Scarecrow. Seceding from society is all well and good (great for spiritual and emotional development, as I well know) but society still carries on, barely notices you're missing. Unless you take hundreds, thousands with you and start again. But without something to trade with the existing civilization all around you, you would be back to subsistence type living. Trust me, I've done research. Fresh water, food, clothing, timber and building materials.. and the tools to acquire them all come from thousands of years of civilization. Can we shuck off the ties of knowledge and start again? Do you really want to?

Oh, believe me, I'd love to start my own community. Given the opportunity, I'd do so without hesitation. But I also have no delusions regarding how likely that is to happen AND be allowed to continue.

I'm also aware that it's not going to be easy to completely secede from society. It's probably effectively impossible, in fact (which is also astoundingly depressing). I'll just have to do the best I can to gain as much freedom as I can in the prison I was born into.

 

Sometimes the major parties do have good policies, especially left-wing ones which should be (and used to be more so in the past_ more socialist, community orientated, taking tax and sharing it around kind of behaviour. Without that pressure, the right wing capitalists would have gone nuts. We know what happens when capitalism is at work,here we have "good" capitalism, where we all have to work our socks off and be part of the system, and get our little carrots when we do what's right.

"Bad" capitalism is where the goodies aren't shared around so well, and people get really fucked up.

as i'll mention below, good policies are a means to keep the masses from becoming riotous, as well as part of the voting game (how many promised policies actually get delivered?).

and, as below, things need to be at stake for people to have any interest in voting (and feeling like they've been part of a democratic process!) whatsoever.

 

Neither is very good for us, but if we get back to politics it's actually the impact of the economic system which is so devastating to all parties. 99% of the policies are impacted by the mighty $ which means they are ineffective and hard to manage. If we had a steady state economy with much greater sharing, the policies espoused by the left wing would be fantastic, and the right wing groups essentially wouldn't HAVE any proposals. They would be extinct, except the Tony Abbotts of this world would likely continue try to impose religious and moralistic nonsense on us instead of economic slavery.

i can't comment on this, i actually know very little about politics and economics because i tend to avoid them like the plague.

 

not true, representatives still have a vote on the floor of HoR or the senate. whether that vote makes a difference is another story.

you're right. of course they aren't completely useless, but i'm sure you understand what i'm getting at; they don't really hold any more sway over decisions than anyone else involved.

 

disagree again. since 2k7 we've had arguably many good reforms, tax reforms, ndis, higher pensions, dental health scheme, carbon pricing (despite your political views it does as advertised). i'm fairly certain we'd have none of those things if the country stayed with howard and the lnp.

obviously people need to be kept happy, placated just enough to prevent too much questioning. our governments are assholes, but they aren't stupid. they are perfectly aware that if they push their luck too much (too quickly) they'll end up facing rebellion. based on what i've seen, i think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that this is their only motive in making these sorts of reforms and infrastructure improvements.

 

anyway the point is the system is not necessarily rigid, it's just intellectual laziness on the part of the australian electorate which lends itself to the current situation we have.

intellectual laziness is one good way to look at it, but i'd argue that the real problem is that people are in such a state of stuporous exhaustion from their nine to five jobs that they've become completely subversive to whoever is in power, and television brainwashing. the result is that they've straight up forgotten how to be think for themselves.

 

So you do reckon some vested interest will decide whether we get a fiber optic cable, independently of whoever is in parliament at the time?

no, i think that's part of the popularity contest. if nothing is at stake in the elections, people would lose interest. at least, i'd hope so.

 

I'm not sticking my head in the dirt here and trying to say everything works perfectly, of course the system is fucked... but that doesn't mean it will always be fucked.

unfortunately, if we look at history, we can see freedoms slowly being stripped away one by one. and we've all observed attempts to further this in our own lifetimes (for example drug laws, attempts towards internet censorship and monitoring, etc). as far as i can tell, things will only go downhill unless there are some drastic changes.

 

@scarecrow, that level of resignation & cynicism is just a pretty handy justification to cop out & do nothing.

Actually, its form of apathy thats common in affluent 1st world countries like ours

it's not a cop out man, it's more of a resignation of defeat. unless people get mad enough to start a revolution (which may or may not happen in my lifetime), there's basically absolutely nothing i can do. becoming an activist or what have you isn't going to change anything, and i'm no public speaker or politician.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Scarecrow

[teonanacatl]

I was really looking forward to an election where no one wanted either of the main leaders and we ended up with a load of small parties and independents representing us.

This was why he got voted in in the first place, if you ask me

 

[Halcyon Daze]

First he dumps the carbon tax, now Rudd has slammed the door shut on refugees. Abbott is finished IMO, but at least he's left his evil legacy

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-slams-door-on-refugees-20130719-2qa5b.html

Edited July 20, 2013 by Halcyon Daze

[whitewind]

Rudd has turned out to be just as psychopathic as his peers. Can't say I'm surprised, but disappointed.