Ethical food question poll

[teonanacatl]

Some curious questions. Maybe more to follow if I can be bothered.

Edited January 5, 2013 by teonanacatl

[Max Cady]

I'd buy caged eggs at the price of organic free range eggs if the price difference went to stopping battery hens, the reason I'd still eat the caged eggs is to help eliminate the evils of wasted food in this world....

[waterboy 2.0]

If you answer no then you cannot finish the poll.

(I also raise and harvest a fair proportion of the families animal products consumed - which probably costs more...lol)

Edited January 5, 2013 by waterboy

[teonanacatl]

Updated to allow for no's.

[bogfrog]

A fringe benefit of buying ethically raised meat is that it comes with built in portion-control cause you pay more money for a smaller amount.

Eating meat too often is detrimental to your health and having quality meat less often means you can appreciate it so much more.

I also feel really crap and guilty after eating depressed animal.

[teonanacatl]

Ill let a few more people answer the poll before I pose a few more Q's.

Personally I dont buy free range/ethical animal products. I live in the bush and shoot my own so I guess it is free range, as to whether people consider my methods of acquirement ethical is another can o worms.

[bogfrog]

I think killing an animal for yourself and your family to eat is one of the most ethical approaches you can take, as long as it is done in the most humane way feasible.

IMO you really should be able to kill an animal if you are prepared to eat it.. Which makes me a total failure cause i couldnt kill any of the animals i like to eat.

Good food for thought and thought for food.

[waterboy 2.0]

^ as a bloke that has and will eat all sorts of unmentionables thats a refreshing take on it .

[whitewind]

all sorts of unmentionables

 

Curious..

[teonanacatl]

Interesting results!

So I posed this question as my experiences living a remote and very self sustainable life for the last few years and interaction about this life with other people have definitely raised a few questions for myself.

The first world human population has reached an interesting point I think. We have reached a point in our civilisation where we care about the treatment of animals we eat. Not entirely stupid as happy animals are healthier etc. However modern agriculture evolved for production of quantity yet now we are happy to sacrifice quantity and cost for ethics.

I proposed however that we have placed the rights of animals above the rights of other humans (third world) and to some extent above opportunities for ourselves and children. I would propose that people should sacrifice some of their ethics and buy cheaper caged eggs (for example) and difference in $ go towards food for third world countries or education for our children etc (just examples).

So noone voted for symbol of status or talking point, but I think this is oversight. Many said it tastes better which is a talking point. An interesting social experiment for you would be to comment to your peers that you have started buying caged eggs, surprisingly in my experience this is a significant statement to make. In my experience some people dont care, others are totally outraged. Whether we like it or not it is a symbol of status (not high class but of ethics) in much the same way buying organic food or being a vegetarian is.

My thoughts arnt exactly well put out today sorry.

I hunt my own food and I must say not all kills are quick and immediate, its just not always possible. To watch an animal die is an experience I think everyone should have, and no I dont think that is psychotic. Sometimes Im sick of killing animals, so I go without.

In terms of eggs I buy caged ones, Im poor and dont care how the chickens are raised, I can detach from that.

The funny thing is most free range farms also do caged eggs so your supporting it regardless. There was a report into the conditions etc and stress caused to the animals and it found there was no difference between caged vs free range but there was between farms, ie better managed farms had happier chickens regardless of how they were raised. The biggest criticism of this report was that critics wanted a lower density for actual free range chickens.

All the lessons learnt in living, in death we learn the rest.

Anyway Im rambling now.

[waterboy 2.0]

I think I understand some of your points well Teo.

Some will freak out (and have) when I have told then I have eaten black swan eggs (while on eggs as an example), but wouldn't bat an eyelid to cage raised eggs But the biggest problem for me is they cannot understand how these were harvested in a sustainable fashion that has been taught for thousands of years within my kin....wasn't until europeans started shooting them and setting dogs onto them numbers started to drop..... (ok enough of that...).

I raise a variety of poultry for egg and meat production now. I know every animal, their characters and antics, they do not fear me.

I am also an animal amongst them, no more-no less. I treat them with respect in life and ultimately in their death. I am also well "versed" in how to humanely kill a variety of animals, and this is important point to make.

At times I have seen and heard SOME others speak of "ethical foods" but can only come to the conclusion that it is one way to disassociate themselves from the actual products....because everything is "OK" because the label says so. I've seen some bloody shocking "free-range" operations with absolutely shithouse animal welfare..... this also includes piggeries

^This IS a generalisation folks, I also know of others that refuse caged eggs as a principle of the production methods and this is genuine. I am not giving anyone shit for making this a choice to be clear.

Edited January 10, 2013 by waterboy

[IndianDreaming]

I can understand some people's right to be picky and choosey - but Gee's it makes life hard when ordering pizza "Is that chicken free range, gluten free, fair trade, certified oraganic, without nuts, sugar free, decaffinated?" - Just eat the bloody chicken! It would eat you if it could...

* No chickens were harmed during the writing of this post *

Edit: I don't eat steroid chicken anymore, the breasts are the size of a turkey and it gives me a shocking headache

Edited January 10, 2013 by IndianDreaming

[qualia]

http://youtu.be/l2LBICPEK6w

[bullit]

no chickens r on roids anymore!?!?! once upon a time i worked in a meat chicken farm u dont wanna eat these chooks its a fucken mess in there, stupid chook will eat eat eat eat no room to play nuthin!!!looks like 1 big white feathered sheet in a fucken hothouse three months later size 16 lol!

a stressed chook will lay a shitte thin shell and is lackin taste too a happy chookin egg

FUCK CAGED CHOOK EGGS!!!!

Edited January 10, 2013 by bullit

[coin]

There's nothing about health in the questions...

Look at how massive the paleo diet ("movement") has become...there's a lot of people now who don't care so much about ethics, but they do very much care about the CLA content of their beef and butter, from grass-fed vs grain fattened feed-lot animals, for example.

On another note, the poultry industry seems to be pushing for an increase in the allowable bird density, under the "free range" classification. IIRC the recommended stocking density (by Aust Egg Corp ltd) is 1500 birds per hectare, while some are wanting to move up to 20,000 and still be classified as free range. They say that if the standards are not lowered/recommended welfare standards are imposed & enforced, Australians will have to start paying the 'true' cost of eggs (around $1 each, maybe a little more) and they would eventually start importing cheaper eggs from countries with far worse food safety & welfare standards.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but was it not only a few generations ago that most families had a meat day and a fish day per week, with leftovers on another day, and keep the rendered fat, bones for stock, etc. Now it seems like people expect meat to be so cheap that they can eat it every day, maybe even twice daily (not to mention $1 carton of milk, loaf of bread, etc.)

Edited January 11, 2013 by coin

[Distracted]

In fact, a new report from the UK-based Institution of Mechanical Engineers has found that up to half of the food produced around the world goes to waste.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3667833.htm

Eat what you can, don't turn something down for ethical reasons.

[IndianDreaming]

I think the problem of food ethics goes well beyond chickens and eggs. I've come to the conclusion that food companies have zero interest in nutrition, health or ethics - they want money and nothing else. Their single aim is to increase their profit margin and no holes are barred at achieving that goal. They'll add known carcinogens, poisons, dyes, fillers, drugs, addictive substances and the maximum amount of each possible within the law, all with the aim of getting you hooked, not fed or healthy. The lower the nutrition content and the higher the addictive nature of their product, the more you'll buy buy buy. Adverse health effects, disease, ethics etc. are only marginally taken into account to save them money on lawsuits. Anything that they can do to make more money they'll do.

I've been eating healthy for all of about 18 months now, and if I eat something from a packet with colourings or msg or any 'number E this or E chemical that' I get sick, really sick and feel like I'm poisoned - msg gives me a headache within 20 minutes of eating it, my mood changes drastically, my entire thought processes change and I catch myself thinkng completely differently than i was before being poisoned - and then i crave, crave, crave for 24 hours or more from a single dose.

Food from packets isn't food these days - It's a massive dose of carcinogens, addictive drugs, inhibitors and chemicals designed to mimic satiety.

As for chickens: It really only slightly matters if the chicken is free to run around or caged, it's the chemical soup they feed both types that makes the real difference. Feed your own chickens commercial chicken pellets and then compare the eggs to your own chickens fed vegetable scraps. Feed your chickens drugs and the dose goes straight through the chickens ass and into your brain...

Edit: *** Rant mode off ***

Edited January 11, 2013 by IndianDreaming