Shady shoppers stealing millions using scanner tricks at Coles and Woolworths self-serve checkouts

[Psylo]

Whatever happened to passion, bettering yourself and obtaining a skilled position?

Good riddance to menial jobs. Maybe it will encourage people to pursue a proper career?

 

Fuck that, who's going to dry-clean my $4000 suits and wash the Beamer?

Honestly though, why should all people quest for 'a proper career'? Perhaps it's attractive to have less responsibility and stay in lower level jobs. Less money for sure, but significantly less stress, more time for friends and family. What is important to one person is not a golden rule for all.

[goneski]

My partner drives taxis (whilst studying). On a typical 8 hour shift, she pulls in around $200 tops (lucky if that).. 50% goes to the owner of the taxi. So she gets $100.

She also has to pay around $300 or so for a taxi licence + periodic medical examinations + 10% GST on her income + income tax.. So that $100 dwindles even further.

She's come across taxi drivers who have worked 8 - 12 hour shifts only to bring in $70.. Then, on top of that, they're losing all of the above (income tax, GST..)

Considering the high cost of living in Australia, there's one reason to aim for a skilled position.

I honestly don't know how anyone could stand doing the same boring, repetitive job.

I don't know how the hell anyone could be happy doing that. Seems a hell of a lot like The Last Man to me.

If people think a simplistic self-serve checkout machine is so deplorable, I think we're all in for a rude shock in the coming years.. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Nanotechnology is looking to replace a lot of physical labour.

I agree that they may be a way of cost cutting, but I also believe it's a possible catalyst for encouraging people to get off their arses and do something, too.

And I'm not talking about obtaining a skilled position so you can buy thousand dollar suits (like real estate agents) or Beamers -- I'm talking about skilled positions that encourage you to

learn and constantly develop, whilst providing for a comfortable living (unlike taxi driving!). It's possible to have this and be working typical 9 - 5 hours without sacrificing your personal life..

I find it quite sad that there are people out there who are content with working in the same job year after year doing the same repetitive tasks over and over with no room for (self)-development..

Edited November 13, 2012 by SYNeR

[nabraxas]

Whatever happened to passion, bettering yourself and obtaining a skilled position?

like i said most ov the checkout staff are students or at school.

they are bettering themselves, & at the same time they are earning money & finding out what it's really like in the "real world"

remove that opportunity & some ov them might not be able to afford to study, & the school kids will continue to sponge off their parents, or

otherwise wont be able to afford driving lessons or to save up for their first car.

[nabraxas]

& yeah, sometimes it's nice to just go to work, do your job, go home & forget about it.

higher paid positions usually come w/more responsibility, stress, often more hours (at Coles managers are expected to stay at work until the job is finished, & if that means staying back 2 or 3 hours then that's what you have to do & you wont be paid for that extra time).

usually work is taken home, if not physically then mentally.

some people will take less pay for a more relaxed work experience.

[goneski]

A lot of checkout staff I've seen are middle-aged people without any intent of studying or otherwise obtaining a career.

And I know way too many people around my own age or a little older who started working at a supermarket only to end up stuck there and not get anywhere

and lose any and all motivation for doing anything beyond packing shelves, etc.

It's a matter of balancing opportunity with personal life.. And as I've already said, you can have the opportunity with little to no impact on your personal life anyway.

You don't have to work stupidly long hours. It's about playing the job market smart. Researching and finding something that interests you.. If you understand the job market

and various industries, you can have your cake and eat it too.

I know quite a few people in highly skilled positions who have a work life that's just as relaxed as anywhere else -- sometimes even MORE relaxed. You'll often find in a skilled position,

working for a decent employer, they will respect you more and allow for more freedom in the workplace. Shit, I just work a normal 8 hour day and I can work whenever the hell I want..

As long as I work a normal 8 hour day. I can even sit at home and work. It's not about making demands, it's about the employer appreciating they have skilled staff and offering more respect

and the little perks that come with that..

Before that, whilst I was looking for a job in which I was qualified, I worked crumby IT help desk jobs that required no qualifications and minimal experience.. And the difference was immense. You were seen as replaceable, given

no respect (despite having some skills) and managers couldn't give a shit about you. This was observed across multiple workplaces, too.

[santiago]

ah its not all bad, im looking forward to having a robot wife to look after me when i get older. i suppose if people want to steal which is the core subject here then good luck to them, each system has its weaknesses and strengths and life adapts either way. me personally if i was going to have a criminal record i would shiver at the thought of having stealing from an automated checkout on my card, not that having any criminal record is good, but theft and petty theft at that from a supermarket would have to be the worst in the lamest kind of way to become a crim.

[GoOnThen]

Whatever happened to passion, bettering yourself and obtaining a skilled position?

Good riddance to menial jobs. Maybe it will encourage people to pursue a proper career?

I'm sorry if I sound like a pompous arsehole, but the fabricated necessity of keeping jobs just for the sake of keeping people employed is absolutely ridiculous.

 

It takes all kinds of people to make the world go round. I am sorry but you do sound like a pompous arsehole not everyone has the capabilities or the inclination to "better themselves". This what is wrong with the whole education system and the younger people heading out into the work force. The whole system is now set up for higher education and the expectations of working in "proper careers". What is wrong with being a blue collar worker like a tradesman or laborer or even a checkout operator.

There will always be a lot of unskilled people looking for work the problem now is we are getting rid of all of the positions that that they used to fill. Should these people just give up and go on the dole.

Should we just keep putting a line though all jobs that are service based because they don't make money and without them the bottom line looks better. Should we continue to tell people to better them selves and look for better jobs that they don't have the personal or practical skills to do and so they end up in the unemployment line because they don't want the jobs that they are suited to or the jobs are not there any more.

Going back to the WW and Coles discussion it wasn't that long ago when both of the big retailers had two people on the registers one to scan and one to pack. what happened to the bag packer ? Did you notice that when they dropped the bag packer it wasn't long before the self serve registers were rolled out. I think you will find that it wasn't coincidence that with no bag packers the registers slowed down so the queues were longer and no extra staff was put on then a little while latter the self serve registers roll out and you are forced to use them or wait in long queues behind the slow registers.

It is hard these days for the customer to force businesses to offer good service because of the monopoly situations. It is good to hear that the country towns have had a win with the banks but that was only achieved by one of them breaking the norm and going back out to the country to try and win back costumers and so the others had to follow suit. The problem we have with the high turnover retailers is they have to much control so if the main players make changes to the way they run there business then most accept it because there is no were else to go. I actually get caught with this dilemma all the time. I normally wont go back to a business if they don't offer good service whether its the staff that are rude or that there products are crap if there are other places I can buy what I need I will go and try there next time. But I still find myself buying from the big retail bullies because I cant go and buy what I need from somewhere else because they have ether bought them out or forced them out.

Cheers

Got

[santiago]

you make an interesting point GOT. considering from a marketing point of view the longer you can make someone stay generally the more they pay, it would be of interest to keep people in lines longer as they will buy those cute lollies to keep the kids quiet and those stategically placed dollar goods on special like twisties. people are gonna complain no matter what so why not use the line to your advantage. i dont think this is the direct purpose but indirectly i think it adds millions to the bottom line.

good luck to university graduates i say, but the truth is only about 5% eventually make it into their chosen vocation, and then when they do they better be damned sure they want that for life otherwise they have wasted time and money, i personally think the current university, tafe whatever its called heirachy is a complete and utter financial scam.

put it this way, when i said i worked at the DC, they were actually very high employers of migrants especially africans, i love the fact that when i worked at the DC many of these africans without an an education without any experience, from really bad situations at home many times worse than you can imagine, started packing a few boxes and moved on to the fork in a few months, and with an amazing smile on thier faces worked overtime whenever they wanted, pretty much had money on a tap and most of the hard working ones who were glad just to be in australia and alive and could not believe that by simply working a public holiday, for 12 hours if they wanted to...they would get nearly $75 bucks an hour. personally i think alot of uni graduates can only dream of that, for the 4 years it takes to get the university degree...someone with no experience at all and no qualifications, not even born in this country will be $350K up on you already...truth.

[qualia]

in my experience markets are cheaper than chain stores for fruit/veg anyway, and that's before factoring in the vile capitalist mentality of coles and woolworths.

[qualia]

personally i think alot of uni graduates can only dream of that, for the 4 years it takes to get the university degree...someone with no experience at all and no qualifications, not even born in this country will be $350K up on you already...truth.

cos it's all about money isn't it. maybe someone wants to be an engineer? good luck getting an engineering job without a uni degree (but seriously, good luck getting one even with a degree ).

[santiago]

i hate to admit it qualia but yeh life is mostly about money, there is a fine line in life between want and need. wanting to be an engineer and keeping a roof over your familys head for example are two different paths, i too have dreams but before dreams i take care of reality first.

[Torsten]

Psylo, Mullum has about 3000 people, so quite similar situation as you describe. We had two small supermarkets in town. One IGA and one independent called Mallams. The local loyalty always lay with Mallams which left the IGA struggling as it was seen as the invader. But Mullum has grown a lot in the last few years and anyone who's been here less than 20 years doesn't know the history. Mallams was the typical country town store that sponsored local events and supproted local people in perfect reciprocation. The woolies applied to come to town and was rejected by council. A couple of years later Mallams announced it needed to upgrade to bigger premises and that it wanted to use the site that Woolies had identified to build a supermarket, bigger bottleshop [it already ahd a small bottleshop at the old location], plus room for 3 or specialty shops to make it a typical country town mall. Council pruned the project down to supermarket and bottleshop because at the time there were already lots of empty shops in the main street. The community was right behind this project because it was for a community orientated business.

A few months after the DA was granted Mallams sold it's interests to Woolies. Even those who approved of woolies did not find this move ethical, but it was all too late. Over the following months it turned out that Mallams never had any intentions of expanding and that the whole scam was perpetrated because woolies made Mallams an offer they could not refuse, even if it meant selling out the whole town. That's who Mullum fought wollies and won, but then lost. The only thing left for council was to make life hell for woolies. They were forced to upgrade several streets, sidewalks, power supplies, and to treat their waste water on site. But ultimately there was not much council could do to stop woolies.

The locals forget quickly. Now you see a lot of cars parked in the woolies carpark that still have the bumper stickers 'woolies - I won't shop there'. But there are also many who feel strongly enough about all this which has given the local farmers markets a huge boost.

[Psylo]

Thanks for sharing, that's absolutely shocking, and certainly an underhanded tactic. This has compelled me to look for some other recent instances, and there's plenty. Here's a small taste of what's been going on over the last couple of years with the big supermarket players wanting to expand"

June 15th 2012 - Grocers afraid of squeeze

an example where Woolworths purchased what was previously an IGA car park in a regional city.

A mega supermarket was built directly across the road from another Woolworths.

“Two Woolworths facing each other just to push out competition,”

October 5th, 2012 - ACCC goes local as it blocks Woolworths' acquisition of Ballarat hardware stores

Woolworths' proposed acquisition of an independent chain of three hardware stores owned by G Gay & Co in Ballarat, Victoria.

October 19th 2012 - Woolworths planning to buy Hawker IGA

"I think the ACCC have really got to think about the saturation and the eventual lack of competitiveness by putting a huge Woolworths in there,"

Save Newport from the Woolies Plan

The plans assume council carparks (and) our public land will be rezoned to accommodate this dominating store

September 23rd, 20101 - Residents rally against Woolworths in Annandale

“I’ve received countless emails and phone calls in opposition to this DA and I can’t even go out there and make a site inspection,” Leichhardt councillor Daniel Kogoy told the meeting. I can’t do my job because the State Government has taken away my job of determining these applications.”

“There is a huge Coles at Broadway and in Leichhardt there’s a Coles on Norton St and a Woolworths on Marion St. Why would we want another one? It just doesn’t make sense.”

Edited November 13, 2012 by Psylo

[Psylo]

Woolworths' proposed acquisition of an independent chain of three hardware stores owned by G Gay & Co in Ballarat, Victoria.

 

PS: I have been into one of these gay hardwares, theyre called "The Tool Shed"

[goneski]

The whole system is now set up for higher education and the expectations of working in "proper careers". What is wrong with being a blue collar worker like a tradesman or laborer or even a checkout operator.

 

This is the way the world is going. A lot of employers now aren't even bothering with people unless they've got a university degree, despite the job not actually requiring tertiary qualifications.

Employers like to see someone who shows commitment and discipline. It's called competitiveness.

There's nothing intrinsically 'wrong' with being a laborer or checkout operator. Having said that, I've hardly ever come across one who was happy with their job. The vast majority of checkout operators I've come across are bored

senseless, and I've come across way too many laborers that end up fucking their backs or otherwise causing irreversible physical damage. At the end of the day, these jobs are becoming

obsolete. Adapt or die. This is how the world works. Of course, a lot of people will bitch and moan about how difficult their lives are, yet they stick in the same shitty job with shitty pay and make NO attempt at achieving

something.

There will always be a lot of unskilled people looking for work the problem now is we are getting rid of all of the positions that that they used to fill. Should these people just give up and go on the dole.

 

No, but they should make some kind of attempt at doing something rather than being lazy, self-entitled and expecting work without having any skills. Pretty obvious.

Given how high dole payments are compared to some low-income jobs (see my post about taxi driving), going on the dole is actually a valid option thanks to our generous government. Although obviously

this doesn't solve anything and only serves to make things worse.

Should we just keep putting a line though all jobs that are service based because they don't make money and without them the bottom line looks better.

 

No. I never said anything about putting a line through serviced based jobs 'because they don't make money'. Reread my posts. The bottom line is, 'service based' jobs are often menial. As a result, employees are bound to be treated like shit and seen as replaceable (not saying this is okay, just making an observation). And, where available, technology can gladly step in and fill someone's shows.

The basic reality is, a job will lose value if there's no demand for it and/or it lacks complexity and the technology is sufficiently complex (and affordable) to cover the position's requirements..

I really don't understand all the hostility toward the advancement of civilisation and how people ridiculously think we should just keep jobs just for the sake of keeping people employed. How audacious.

Where's the work ethic and passion to actually find an interest, and see where it leads you?

Shit, lets ditch everything. We can go back to the day of scribes where everything is hand written. It will keep people employed, right? I'm sure there are numerous other instances of obsolete jobs we could

return to.

Should we continue to tell people to better them selves and look for better jobs that they don't have the personal or practical skills to do and so they end up in the unemployment line because they don't want the jobs that they are suited to or the jobs are not there any more.

 

Well, if people did better themselves, and looked for better jobs -- they would have the skills necessary to get into the job. Your logic doesn't follow unless I'm missing something. You obtain the skills necessary, you work your way into an entry-level position doing whatever, and, if so desired, you advance your career.

And do you really think a lot of checkout operators like their jobs as they are?

but the truth is only about 5% eventually make it into their chosen vocation, and then when they do they better be damned sure they want that for life otherwise they have wasted time and money, i personally think the current university, tafe whatever its called heirachy is a complete and utter financial scam.

 

Source please? Even if this were true, as I've stated, the bottom line is, employers are going to gravitate more towards university graduates even if the job doesn't call for it.

Why is it a financial scam? Even if you didn't get a job in your chosen profession, having a degree could potentially mean the difference you and some other person getting the job.

personally i think alot of uni graduates can only dream of that, for the 4 years it takes to get the university degree...someone with no experience at all and no qualifications, not even born in this country will be $350K up on you already...truth.

 

$350k? Again, sources please. Are we comparing someone in the mining sector to a university student? Even if you want to take that as the extreme example to illustrate your point, there are Engineering

jobs in the mining industry that do require a degree and are higher salary. After the four years, the student is actually in a better position because they actually have the potential to obtain the Engineering job.

The other person doesn't have a chance in hell without an Engineering qualification.. And yes, I'm talking *actual* Engineering positions as accredited by Engineer's Australia. Not a random job with 'engineer' in the title.

If you're going to compare jobs across industries or compare someone employed vs a university student, that's extremely disingenuous

when you've provided no further context, future projections, etc.

University is an investment and takes time before it begins to pay off. Comparing someone employed against a 4th year university student is very naive. Four years is nothing in the grand scheme of things, especially if you start a degree early / straight out of school.

What about doctors who spend years at Med School to be on salaries of hundreds of thousands? There are many university graduates (again, it depends on the degree you do and the job market) who are

on MUCH higher salaries than those without qualifications. It doesn't take them long to be 'in front' (seeing as though we're playing the 'my penis is larger than yours' game here) of those without qualifications. Your maths is shit.

I suggest looking at some statistics regarding graduate salaries for making proper comparisons.

Edited November 14, 2012 by SYNeR

[waterboy 2.0]

In my line over half the uni grads are useless and reflects poorly on the education they are given, and we have been training in house a better quality of keen workers. In fact the degree of poor literacy and numeracy skills is so low from many young uni grads still amazes me .

In fact a lot of uni grads think they are entitled to top dollar...lol...and have issues entering the field at entry level.

This is not that uncommon talking to folk across many professions these days.

[ballzac]

There will always be a lot of unskilled people looking for work the problem now is we are getting rid of all of the positions that that they used to fill. Should these people just give up and go on the dole.

 

Unfortunately, yes. I don't think the dole is an ideal system, but it's preferable to expecting employers to continue offering jobs that aren't of any value to them. It seems to me that we both agree that people who are unemployed and unskilled should be able to get an income that will cover basic living expenses and in the process provide them with experience. Where we disagree is who should be responsible for funding this. If it is funded by the state, then it's very simple. We are all chipping in with our taxes to help people who are not doing as well as us. But if you arbitrarily expect certain businesses to pay what is essentially unemployment benefits, then it starts to get very complicated when you try to work out who should take on more workers and for what tasks. It would make more sense to increase taxes for high earning businesses and to use these funds to improve the dole and work for the dole schemes. This would be much easier to actually implement across the board.

Unemployment is a complex problem with no easy solutions, but expecting employers to provide work experience and benefits to people who are otherwise unemployed is not even close to a viable solution, and that is essentially what you're advocating when you say it's wrong to get rid of positions that aren't needed any more.

There are other factor to consider in some situations. I mean, if there is a permanent employee on a contract and they are no longer needed, then the employer has the responsibility to retain the employee. But we're talking about fabricating non-existant jobs for the benefit of the unemployed. It doesn't make any sense.

Having said all that, in a free market you're perfectly welcome to vote with your money, and if you choose not to buy from stores that have self-serve, then that's great. But I'm going to continue using them. I like them. And if I start to get a sense of guilt because there isn't enough menial work available for young job-seekers, I'll pay some kid to mow my lawn rather than campaign for Coles to provide a position that they don't need filled for a service that I, as a customer, don't find helpful.

[Psylo]

I've come across way too many laborers that end up fucking their backs or otherwise causing irreversible physical damage. At the end of the day, these jobs are becoming

obsolete. Adapt or die. This is how the world works.

 

And how might you suggest that buildings be erected without a workforce of labourers? Or public facilities such as parks & water foreshores maintained?

[goneski]

And how might you suggest that buildings be erected without a workforce of labourers? Or public facilities such as parks & water foreshores maintained?

 

As I've already alluded to, nanotechnology is going to make a massive difference in the coming years.. All the way from mass production and construction, down to

extremely fine, nuanced surgery.

[qualia]

population skyrockets, possibility for employment reduced, social welfare programs slashed.

uhuh, recipe for success right there

[goneski]

population skyrockets

 

is a recipe for success on its own.

[cactuscarl]

Bit of a miss there I'd say mate. If the smaller stores pick up their produce from the same farmers markets that the big 2 do then I can more or less guarantee you it goes on the shelf just as fresh! Big 2 just don't have the storage facilities to stock up on produce for more than a few day's, place I work at more or less empty the racking every day and start anew every morning! And the deliveries come straight from the markets or growers. So if anything gets stored and later ripened it's in 99% of cases at the supplier, not the big 2.

 

I'm not sure how much of this has been said I haven't read the whole thing but this ^^ is not true woolworths buy wherever its cheaper for example they buy strawberries from Victoria and ship them up to Qld as soon as their farms start fruiting meanwhile Qld farms are forced to plow their plants right in the middle of the season. They also simple tell the farmer what they will pay for their product and id you don't like it to bad you can't sell it anywhere else. If you ever get any fruit or vege cheap from woolworth them the farmer has been truly screwed. Woolworth is one me the worth things to happen to this country

[Anodyne]

I've never used one of these self-serve checkouts, so I may be missing some nuances of the process here, but...

On the rare occassions I venture into one of these overlit monstrosities because nowhere else will sell me imitation-nutella-product at 3 a.m, I am usually, not to put too fine a point on it, not feeling my most bright and capable self. At these times, I really need someone to help me with the transaction. A self-service set-up just wouldn't work. While my main attitudes to the concept are apathy and amusement, there's still a small corner which yelps "hang on, you want me to do what? Queue up to give you money, and do all the checkout work myself?". The amusement bit usually wins though - it's fun to think of all those lawyers and engineers having to play checkout-chick.

[Max Cady]

how about disabled people syner? how will nano technology help assimulate them into their community if there is no work for them at supermarkets or the like where they can work along side so called normal people?.

What about people who have lost all their family and are in the throws of grief or emotional turmoil and can't handle the stress of their normal career but have to do something to keep a roof over their heads?

I'd like to drop you in the Glenorchy Bus mall or equivilant rough area and see if you have the life skills to make it out alive....

If you're ever confronted with someone who is extremely violent with no education and nothing to lose maybe then you'll realise there are some things you can't learn in books

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I1ggW3qak4

I see you had your mind all made up you group of

pitiful liars. before i woke to face the day, your master

plan transpired. -something told me- this job had more to

meet the eye. my song is not believed? my words some-

what deceiving? now i'm unwhole.

you've waged a war of nerves

but you can't crush the kingdom

can't be what your idols are. can't leave the scar.

you cry for compensation. i ask you please just give us...

5 minutes alone

i read your eyes, your mind was made up. you took me for

a fool. you used complexion of my skin for a counter

rascist tool. -you can't burn me- i've spilled my guts out

in the past. taken advantage of because you know where

i've come [from]. my past.

you've waged a war of nerves

but you can't crush the kingdom

can't be what your idols are. can't leave the scar.

I bury your compensation. i ask you please just give us...

5 minutes alone