Shady shoppers stealing millions using scanner tricks at Coles and Woolworths self-serve checkouts

[ballzac]

in a sense i agree w/you Ballzac, it's utopian to replace human labour w/machines, & in the case ov driverless cars it would also drastically reduce the road toll while speeding up traffic.

However in the case ov checkouts i don't think it applies.

the self service checkouts don't speed up the transaction in any meaningful way, they just replace a person w/you doing the scanning.

& seeing as how many checkout operators are at school or students working evenings or weekends, hardly anyone is being saved from a life ov drudgery so they can do something more fulfilling w/their life.

 

Very good point. I hadn't thought of it like that. Still, money is being saved by the business, and if people don't feel that there is sufficient competition for those savings to be passed on to the consumer, then it's that aspect that should be addressed in my opinion.

I personally like them. No need to make small talk with them, and the queues have reduced significantly. If people don't like them, there is still the option to use one of the manned checkouts.

[Psylo]

Awesome. Price over all else. This is why we are heading for a Depression, because people don't make an ethical stand when they can save a few measly bob. While youre at it, fuck buying Australian produce too, when overseas-owned products are cheaper. Tough luck to Aussie companies, they can go work in the mines too !

[ballzac]

Please spare me the ridiculous statements of extremity that you are fond of when trying to illustrate your opinions.

 

Following the consequences of opinions to their logical conclusion is probably the best method we have to find inconsistency in belief systems. Considering that we have no objective way of knowing which "oughts" are true, developing consistency in our worldviews is, to me, the most important thing. This is a huge part of the socratic method, which has been a staple in western philosophy for a couple of thousand years. A implies B, but you believe A and not B, therefore you are either wrong about A, B, or both. You may not agree with me on its importance, but I hardly think it's fair to call it ridiculous.

[Psylo]

Yes Ballzac. I have seen this exact MO countles times before. All I will add is 'you are so clever'

[GoOnThen]

We have all been pushed and shoved into the thinking that we are getting lower prices by taking the service out of retail and all the time the big retailers are telling us the service is still there along with lower prices. Bollacks do you remember when Bunnings warehouses first opened they advertized the fact that each section had a trades person or at least a knowledgeable person that you could get assistance from which they did until they wiped out the opposition. Now you will be lucky to find a person that actually wants to speak to you and you sure as hell wont want to ask a question because the have know idea.

I don't do self service if I can help it especially not in a a place like WW or Coles I have to wander around to find what I want if I ask someone were something is they shrug there shoulders and send me down the front of the store to ask someone else and then they want me to scan and pay for the products that I have in my trolley all with no service at all but they still charge the same. I am certain that there margins have not come down if anything they will be up because they have screwed the suppliers so hard that a lot of them have given up and ether rolled over and branded there products as Coles or WW products. Has any one noticed how many small suppliers still have products on the shelves in the big retailers ( including bunnings )

Has any one been to a service station lately and actually got any service other than some lone person taking your money of you. Ever tried asking what sort of oil to put in your car or ask for assistance because your car has broken down on the forecourt.

I used to work in a service station after school and pump petrol and later in life I worked rosters week ends and security was always a priority we always had at least 2 people on at all times. In my engineering shop we always have two people here. The policy is so a worker is never on his own in case something goes wrong yet servo's operate with one person in the middle of the night and that is ok ? What about the safety of the worker Bollocks that would cost to much and there margins would suffer.

I never have got the attitude of they will have to find a different job. What is wrong with there old one other than it is cheaper to get the customer to do it. How long will it be before some old lady is charged with stealing from one of these diy self serve registers when the poor old dear has made an honest mistake.

I could go on but I might start going on about the good old times I will say one more thing I worked in many positions over my working life and most involved dealing with customers in retail positions and managerial positions. The philosophy was always offer quality products at each price point at a competitive price and if you offer great service you will have customers return again and again. And I still follow the much same in my business now with quality of work and service being the most impotant. If I do both of those well then most of my customers are quite happy to pay extra for the job.

Cheers

Got

Edited November 12, 2012 by GoOnThen

[ghosty]

Personally I think the major chains usually have far fresher food than the local IGA’s or whatever. Plus you get far more variety for far better value, particularly from woolworths.

 

i can only disagree. i dont use IGA. never have. much there is fresh but too dear for most of it. the produce at woolies is rotton! i wouldnt buy it, let alone eat it. i will take some pics the next time i go there. none of that should be able to be sold. i get my produce up the road at a small green groser. his prices are at least half of that of coles and woolies and the food is fesh, REALY fresh! they have bigger and better range too. i think i got a pic on my fone that i took of the green chilli's at woolies a while back. i will find it and post it here as a small example of what im on about. vanilla beans are always half the price of coles too, so is this and so is that. with all the over pricing going on with these big companies im not supprised that people dont have the money to buy other overpriced australian crap like electrical goods etc. all this has an effect on the economy. as far as im concerned, let the economy collapse. mind you, i have never had respect for greedy and greedy people.

[ballzac]

I never have got the attitude of they will have to find a different job. What is wrong with there old one other than it is cheaper to get the customer to do it.

 

A job is an agreement between an employer and an employee. The employer requires a job to be done, and the employee requires money, so they enter into a contract to exchange money for services. If an individual or corporation does not require the services of a job-seeker, then yes, they will have to find another job. Neither an individual, nor a corporation, has a responsibility to manufacture unnecessary jobs so that kids can get work experience. If we want people with little work experience and no money to be given both those things without providing a service that is required by an employer, then it makes more sense to get this done by increasing unemployment benefits and improving the work for the dole system, than to arbitrarily expect certain corporations to employ people that they don't need.

So what's wrong with their old job? It doesn't exist! A job only exists if someone requires services. And if they don't, then you need to find a different job. It's unfortunate for a person who loses their job, but it's just a fact of life. You could make the same argument about all sorts of jobs that don't exist. What's wrong with being a switchboard operator or a level crossing attendant? Well, nothing...if someone requires that service. But you wouldn't expect telecommunications companies to reinstall the old fashioned switchboards just so that they can waste money employing people that they don't need.

[ghosty]

here is a VERY small example of the kind of fresh, thats always on offer from woolies ashgrove.

[Snowfella]

Well, buy it if you really want to put hurt to them mate.

http://woolworths.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Website/Woolworths/FreshFoodIdeas/freshorfree/

If you are not satisfied with any fresh food item you buy from Woolworths, the next time you shop with us, bring along your receipt and stop by the service desk. Speak to our friendly staff member and you’ll get a full refund and a replacement item.

 

It's likely a QA issue at the local store, they just don't check their shelfs often enough to remove the older stock. So if they get enough ppl coming by to complain, and take them up on their own policy, things might just change.

[ballzac]

here is a VERY small example of the kind of fresh, thats always on offer from woolies ashgrove.

 

Pretty typical in my experience too. Although, I've discovered that shopping early in the morning tends to get you the best stuff. I think people pick the best stuff early on, and then they refill without chucking out the garbage that's left behind, and by the end of the day there's just a pile of crap to choose from. Another big difference is that a lot of the stuff is frozen and then thawed, which totally destroys it. There's a good place here where I try to buy a lot of my food, but they're pretty exxy. They're similar to what macro was like before they got taken over, but they're just a family business, and seem to have a fair bit of pride in what they sell.

[ghosty]

"they just don't check their shelfs often enough to remove the older stock" LOL all their stock is this shit, every time i've walked through to have a look.

"If you are not satisfied with any fresh food item you buy from Woolworths, the next time you shop with us, bring along your receipt and stop by the service desk. Speak to our friendly staff member and you’ll get a full refund and a replacement item." this would be good i guess if i thought for half a second they would actualy have fresh goods. however, this isnt the case. i have never seen fresh produce at their stores. ever. with their prices and bad food etc. others can play that time wasting game. i will just support smaller business with real produce and no games and other shit.

[ghosty]

"Another big difference is that a lot of the stuff is frozen and then thawed, which totally destroys it." right on! and why is this the case? i think it's due to the fact that they charge so bloody much for these things that they cant move it fast enough. hence this shit. it all points to greed and greed only. as i've said.

[ballzac]

"Another big difference is that a lot of the stuff is frozen and then thawed, which totally destroys it." right on! and why is this the case? i think it's due to the fact that they charge so bloody much for these things that they cant move it fast enough.

 

I think it's more that they don't buy locally, so it needs to be frozen for long term transportation.

it all points to greed and greed only. as i've said.

 

No shit, they're a business. What did you expect, philanthropy?

[ghosty]

um... yes. that would make a nice change. this is why i buy everything i can off-shore. why pay 3-5 times the retail price for anything in this land irrelevent of where it's made.

[Snowfella]

Can tell you right now that none of the fresh produce is frozen and then thawed in store for sale! It's pure and utter BS! Sure I work for the great "enemy" but I know the processes involved in our recieving, storage and despatch of chilled stock and there's just no way stock gets frozen while in our care....period!

There's temperature checks on every load that comes in, QA checks on everything to make sure it's within tolerances, coldest storage room is at 4C and temp checks on every truck going out.

If anything get's frozen while in transit, temp checked as the doors of the pan opens and needs to be between 2 and 5C, the stores won't accept the delivery and will send it back to the warehouse. I've personally rejected and ordered stock dumped worth more than what I'd make in 5 years!

[ghosty]

ok. it doesnt affect me because i dont buy crap from those stores. i have exressed my feelings and will make no further comments on this topic. in closing allow me to be hypocrit. i dont condone stealing and i activley prevent it where i can. however, if you can get something cheaper / free from the real thieves (coles / woolies) then you have my blessings.

[ballzac]

Snowfella, as I said, it's more about the transportation. It seems they don't freeze any more, if this article is anything to go by, but they still have long term storage, and a lot of the techniques to allow the products to survive long term make it little of a surprise that the produce does not behave, or taste, quite like fresh produce.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/what-they-do-to-food-20120608-201su.html

[Snowfella]

That's your choice mate, if you feel you can get fresher produce at a better price elsewhere then go for it!

For me though I'll keep on shopping at my local store, price is reasonable and I'm comfortable knowing the procedures that are in place keeps me and the family safe.

Better the devil you know!

@GOT: long term storage comes more from the supplier stage though. As I said earlier there's just no way the big 2 have storage space to keep things for months in order to sell later! Suppliers keep it on ice or non ripened in sheds and then deliver to fill a demand.

And that's half the buyers fault nowadays as there seem to be a thought that nothing should be out of season in todays day and age. If stock wasn't stored longterm there just wouldn't be lots of things for sale in certain seasons, least unless it was inported from overseas.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Snowfella

[santiago]

the stores have little to do with pricing they are just the final extension of the logistics, the main costs come from logistics ie actually getting it onto the shelves first and paramount, all the money is made before it gets onto the shelf, of course people have to actually buy it but they cant buy it unless it actually gets onto the shelf, the stores themself and those shop employees are really just an afterthought, they pay shop assistants about $30 and hour if lucky on a public holiday but the DC box packer $70+ on the same day. buying in massive volume and sorting it out efficiently logistic wise is the real money earner, not the checkouts.

[Torsten]

ballzac, we recently ahd wollies move into Mullum. There was a big promise of jobs for young people because jobs would be transferred from the existing small supermarkets to woolies as well as extra jobs created because those who were going to woolies in the nearest bigger town would start shopping in mullum instead. Then the self checkouts opened and the normal check out lanes are rarely staffed. Suddenly there are a shitload less jobs in mullum. I understand that we need to move with the times and evolving technologies, but I think if the only thing that ever matters to us is the labelled price of goods rather than the social costs attached to it then we are doomed. So now unemployment in mullum is higher, but our food is a little cheaper. What's more important though?

Also, what bothers me more is the financial drain these huge corporations cause. The purpose that woolies serves was previous served by 3 butchers, 2 greengrocers, 2 supermarkets, a farmer's market, lots of local farmgate sales, a healthfood shop, and all of their many staff. Many of these businesses are no longer viable and their extra jobs are gone. The majority of the money that was previously earned or brought into the area would be distributed via wages and local investment back into the local community. Kids had casual jobs with caring employers. And many shops would buy from local producers because it was cheaper for them to do so.

Woolies on the other hand buys nothing local and pulls all the money out of the local economy. Nothing stays here unless locals have shares in woolies or are directly employed by woolies.

In the late 90's banks started closing rural branches because they found it was too expensive to maintain them. 8 years later they realised it was too expensive NOT to have them. ANZ was one of the earliest to move out, but decided at some stage to move back into many towns that the other banks deserted and thus their market share rose dramatically. Now the major banks have almost as many rural branches as they used to before the closures started. The customers voted with their feet and their dollars.

I don't think the same thing will happen with supermarkets because our society is obsessed with the concept that we are doing it tough and that we need to save every dollar possible so we can buy more pointless crap and luxury items. I am not on of them. I prefer to take my money to businesses that buy local, employ local, pay fair prices for their produce and charge fair prices for their produce. That usually means spending a little more, but at least I know I am contributing to the health of my commnity rather than just looking after my own wallet and feeding the leeches. If you remove all the real jobs you end up with an economy like the UK which is based on the financial sector and really doesn't produce anything much. Ask them how that is working out for them for the last few years....

[Psylo]

the stores have little to do with pricing they are just the final extension of the logistics, the main costs come from logistics ie actually getting it onto the shelves first and paramount, all the money is made before it gets onto the shelf, of course people have to actually buy it but they cant buy it unless it actually gets onto the shelf, the stores themself and those shop employees are really just an afterthought, they pay shop assistants about $30 and hour if lucky on a public holiday but the DC box packer $70+ on the same day. buying in massive volume and sorting it out efficiently logistic wise is the real money earner, not the checkouts.

 

What absolute shyte. The retail stores dictate the prices to producers, driving them to the brink of bankruptcy (go and speak to some Australian dairy farmers). This ruthless business model is extended to negotiate ridiculously lean wholesale prices on everything they do, beyond retail consumer goods. They do the same with logistics providers, and I can assure you that Woolworths will be paying a significant amount less on a square metre/weight ratio for shipping/logistics than a smaller, but regular corporate customer would for transportation.

Are you even aware of how the supermarkets operate their logistics ? It's a central warehouse arrangement, where suppliers deliver to a single location in the state, and a secondary transport company, branded with the supermarkets logo, will distribute from the central warehouse to the stores. Even if Woolworths paid the same for logistics, the central warehouse model alone saves money.

In comment to Torsten's post. I'm assuming that Mullumbimby is a small town, and already has an IGA? In Picton, Southern Highlands NSW, a single street town, there's a huge IGA AND a Coles (and a McDonalds for fucks sake). Quite an overkill for a population of 3000 people, and perhaps only 10,000 in the greater areas of the town. What I would like to know is why the councilmen and planners allow this to happen. I see no reason why an IGA (a franchise, many of which support local community interests), in conjunction with the local butcher, baker & greengrocer, can't service such a small area. All that Coles needs to do is run at a loss for common items for 12 months, thus pulling customers out of IGA, and they'll soon enough collapse. All the 'off radar' cummunity funding also topples over with the IGA's absense.

The supermarkets, and their business models are geared for maximum profit, on an increasing scale each year. They need to get investive about how they reach the next profit goal, and the automated checkouts are the next step, at the expense of people's jobs. And customers who use the supermarkets as their 'one stop shop' are furthering this corporate disease and crippling your local community. Do some of you even know where your local butcher is ? Ever walked inside ?

[nabraxas]

used to spend alot ov time in Sorrento.

coles started a development there on a small bit ov land.

i asked in the local grocery store what they thought about it.

they said it would be fine because it was only going to be a small coles express.

when it opened it was a full on supermarket w/most ov the development being done

underground, which was why on the surface it looked small.

at a stroke coles put 2 local bottleshops, 1 deli, a grocer & a newsagent out ov business.

[santiago]

psylo im pretty sure the prices are sorted way before they even get to the DC, the suburban stores themselves have no say whatsoever on pricing they just recieve the already costed stock, pop it onto the shelves as fast as they can and pop it through the checkout. the efficiency in the whole process is astronomical thats why if you look at old pamphlets the prices are cheaper today than 10 years ago in alot of normal goods. i dont know exactly how the pricing works but i would hazard a guess the pricing of the products is sorted 5 stages before the DC, mayby even before the stuff is bought initially, im not really sure the pricing was not really something a normal DC staffer gets privvy to, but having been one for 3 years previously, sweated through thousands of picks on the llop, forked, reverse logistics, chiller and freezer and recieving i cant say i understand pricing but i do understand the undercurrent process fairly well.

Edited November 13, 2012 by santiago

[goneski]

Whatever happened to passion, bettering yourself and obtaining a skilled position?

Good riddance to menial jobs. Maybe it will encourage people to pursue a proper career?

I'm sorry if I sound like a pompous arsehole, but the fabricated necessity of keeping jobs just for the sake of keeping people employed is absolutely ridiculous.

[Psylo]

what's your point? The local supermarket model stores aren't franchises, they are wholly owned branches of the mothership.

There is always a logistics component and other 'to-market' costs in the price of retail goods, even when I buy from the growers markets. Any increase in hidden costs won't be carried by the retailer, they will be passed on to the customer. If, as in recent times, their reported overall profit declines, they will lay off staff, because with automated machines, the number of checkout attendants required has decreased. And the end consumers are supporting the technology. If there was a boycot on using them, they would be white elephants, but no, consumers feel empowered under some false sense of convenience, so the customer is to blame as well as the retailer.

If Woolworths laid off, or simply failed to refill the jobs of just three people per store, employed at a rate of $40k a year, thats a $10mil profit for the company, not including the super payments, insurance, uniforms etc. The self-serve checkouts make it a reality to run a leaner staff roster. The now out-of-work staff can't get a job in their local butcher or greengrocer, because their former employer has already bullied them out of the market.

Lower prices are just the beginning