afungitobewith Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I degrafted a handful like that so far. The pereskiopsis rooted and its been growing. A few of the columnars I think also rooted from the base. So when the stock dies they should continue to grow seamlessly I think. There was a thread on another forum about degrafting ariocarpus on pereskiopsis. Didn't mention any real issues with rot when the stock died. Well anyway crosses fingers. Awesome photos and genetics everyone!! :popcorn: Edited May 2, 2014 by afungitobewith Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted May 4, 2014 This is the weirdest individual of the "TPMxN1" that I grafted, i know it's still a young seedling but it looks more like a spachinaous 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted May 5, 2014 Fantastic Plant, Philo! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks EG I had another TPMxN1 graft that had the same phenotype but after I planted it in the ground it started cresting and lost the "spachinaous" look Observation: most (if not all) of my TPMxN1 grafts started throwing roots once the reached 10-15 cm, so I plant them in soil by leaving 2 cm of the pereskiopsis attached to them. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted May 5, 2014 My grafted TPM x N1 plants have thrown roots pretty early on while grafted as well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted May 5, 2014 Do you think it's associated with their monstrosity? I kind of feel that way since I only experienced this with these seeds. I haven't grafted any of the other crosses last season so I can't comment on them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookahhead Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) I've had it happen on nearly all my grafts, so it's not isolated to these seeds. I believe it has to do with light/orientation. Though they do seem to do it earlier/more often than some of my other plants. They also are significantly more prone to pupping than my other crosses, which certainly helps in propagating them. The tall one are zelly's crosses I had planned to try this idea on more of my grafts, but never got around to it. So this is the only one I have. I'll try to get an updated picture and determine if it actually worked. Air Layering is common way to propagate plants. http://www.instructables.com/id/Propagating-Plants-by-Air-Layering/Cacti ARE Plants! Love All Ways Edited May 5, 2014 by hookahhead 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted May 5, 2014 Nice idea but why do you use it on cacti? IME seedlings root much more easier than bugger cuttings, plus you can always cut below the grafts leaving an inch or more of the pereskiopsis and plant it and this little piece of the pereskiopsis will root in 10-14 days and while is growing the graft will throw it's own roots ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookahhead Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) So at no point is the plant without roots. The hope is that this plant will already have rooted into the burlap before degrafting. You can still cut below the the union, and place into a pot. The roots will be able to grow out of the burlap, which will eventually decay. I had intended on doing the same thing to this guy. Edited May 5, 2014 by hookahhead 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadhor5 Posted May 7, 2014 So would it be safe to assume that cresting is definately a genetic trait, and monstrosity is likely genetic as well? I see lots of crests, not many standard looking monstrose growth, however most of these crosses involve both some monstrosity and some cresting amongst the parents right? This thread seems to dispel most of the theories on mutations not being entirely genetic, has anyone had any non mutants from these seeds? I see hookahead has one thats growing fairly normally, but it started as that crazy ball... XD Im so excited to plant my seeds this summer, I wish i couldve done it earlier >< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmattz0r Posted May 7, 2014 I feel that monstrose and cristate traits are mostly genetic but can be caused by environmental factors and pest damage as well. The cacti who go cristate after such damage are probably genetically predisposed to doing so which goes back to mostly genetic reasons There's a great book, Teratopia, that is all about variegated and cristate cacti/succulents. I'd suggest reading it. It's quite expensive so here's a link with a PDF version 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookahhead Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) I am a passionate ecologist and I enjoy plant research. In about 2 weeks, I will start my "summer job" for a third year. I will be paid a decent wage to hike around a beautiful forest, spending the day counting flowers. We have 125+ plants tagged/GPS located to study reproductive trade-offs of my state flower. Our research is institutionally funded, and I am proud to say that I have received 2 awards for presenting, as well as have my name in a published journal because of it. With that said, I present you with my cactus air layering research. Scientific method: Formulation of a question: How can I root my cactus before degrafting? Hypothesis: Air layering will encourage root development for grafted cacti. (Null = minimal or no roots will be formed) Prediction: Layering is more complicated than taking cuttings, but has the advantage that the propagated portion continues to receive water and nutrients from the parent plant while it is forming roots. This is important for plants that form roots slowly, or for propagating large pieces. Since I have observed root buds on several Trichocereus scions, I believe air-layering will provide a way to significantly increase root development while still on the grafting stock.Testing: This plant has certainly grown a good bit over the past several months and roots are now visible below the wrapped area. At first, I tried to look "down the barrel", but couldn't see much. So I decided to investigate further. Expecting to see numerous roots, I carefully unwrapped the burlap. The result was rather dismal, this is was the only sign of root development. This untreated Psycho0 x Super Pedro severely contradicts my hypothesis. Conclusion: Despite only trying this on one plant, air-layering does not seem to offer any benefit. However cacti never cease to amaze me. The pup I posted earlier is developing a second root, and even one of my perskiopsis has arial roots! So back to the original topic.... here's an update on my TPQC x TPM "L1" On occasion, it puts out these strange areole "bumps" that haven't grown after several months. So, I've started using these for grafting. Edited May 8, 2014 by hookahhead 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrogen Posted May 8, 2014 Hhhmmm, better try a larger sample size before jumping to conclusions ;) It could be that the layering wasn't at the base of the graft no? I mean, the scion may have just thought it was an obstruction, like another plant - in nature the plant would never have soil above the bottom of the plant but not at the bottom of the plant - so it may have evolved to not throw roots unless the very base of the plant is in soil.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted May 9, 2014 hh- in the course of your experiments on air layering, are you notating & recording variables such as lighting, ambient temps & humidity? I'd betcha the ambient temp/humidity plays a big role in aerial root growth. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookahhead Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) Yeah, I completely agree that no conclusions can actually be drawn from the limited sample size. This was a very poorly conducted experiment and several factors could have influenced the results... I didn't keep up to well with watering the top part, which would have probably helped. Perhaps the one area where a root tried to push out, couldn't actually make it into he burlap. I also have no idea what the likelihood of it developing many roots are, since I don't have any clones from it. t could be that the layering wasn't at the base of the graft no? I mean, the scion may have just thought it was an obstruction, like another plant - in nature the plant would never have soil above the bottom of the plant but not at the bottom of the plant - so it may have evolved to not throw roots unless the very base of the plant is in soil.. Although this is a possibility, I don't think it's very likely. I did wrap it very close to the bottom, but wrapping the actual union might be helpful. Though it was never intend as a "control" the The psycho0 x super pedro shows roots can develop other places than the bottom, and including the area that I wrapped on the other plant. I don't think they are able to make much of a distinction between the ground, or some kind of obstruction. Instead, I believe the arial buds are caused by photosensitivity and their ability to root as logs. From my observations, aerial roots tend to develop when a side of the plant receives low levels of light. For instance, I have a Icaros DNA peruvians that is a little over 2ft that has root buds nearly the entire length on the "back" side, because it was next to a wall. This is possibly why they appear at the bottom a lot of times, because the plant is blocking it's own light hh- in the course of your experiments on air layering, are you notating & recording variables such as lighting, ambient temps & humidity? I'd betcha the ambient temp/humidity plays a big role in aerial root growth. No, this wasn't any kind of controlled study. Humidity/temp are something to consider, and I believe I have seen it suggested that aerial roots may help the plant gather extra moisture. I still argue that light has a much greater role than moisture in this effect; I seriously doubt any significant amount could be collected through small fat root nubs. Edited May 9, 2014 by hookahhead 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EthnoGuy85 Posted May 9, 2014 So would it be safe to assume that cresting is definately a genetic trait, and monstrosity is likely genetic as well? I see lots of crests, not many standard looking monstrose growth, however most of these crosses involve both some monstrosity and some cresting amongst the parents right? This thread seems to dispel most of the theories on mutations not being entirely genetic, has anyone had any non mutants from these seeds? I see hookahead has one thats growing fairly normally, but it started as that crazy ball... XD Im so excited to plant my seeds this summer, I wish i couldve done it earlier >< How many other people have these seeds and have yet to start them???? I got a few crosses from nitrogen and had them in soil within 2 days. Then was lucky enough to get a few seeds of the others from a member at the nook and had them in soil the day I got em. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted May 9, 2014 How many other people have these seeds and have yet to start them???? Me I've a bag of 40+ TPQC x TPM seeds, but I'm like duh, what do I want with more babies to take care of?? For shits & giggles i threw down a bunch of my Juuls x Jack seeds. Now theres a bunch of damn variegates & albino's in the seedlings, and no way do i want to do the required grafting, so I'll just probably let them die. I want less to do, not more. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrogen Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) Before anyone judges Zelly for this sort of neglect - you have to see it to believe it, the sort of things that are happening over at his place ;) The man has got his hands full, to say the least.. TPQC x TPM - I love that cross - for some reason its the one I have the fewest of, maybe 8-10 of them growing, I have several times that many TPM x (SS02 x pachanoi) going.. Lol, you would have thought I'd have seen to it that I wound up with quite a few of each hybrid for myself - and generally I did, but the TPQC x TPM is an exception.. And no more seed is left of any of these crosses, it's all in circulation or in the ground at this point.. They are all freaks though, the TPQC x TPM specimens - I selected only the mutants to graft and can't recall what happened to to the starter tray of them.. Edited May 9, 2014 by nitrogen 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookahhead Posted May 9, 2014 I have already made a few offerings in hope of appeasing the cacti gods enough to grant you more freaky flowers this year. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadhor5 Posted May 9, 2014 I feel that monstrose and cristate traits are mostly genetic but can be caused by environmental factors and pest damage as well. The cacti who go cristate after such damage are probably genetically predisposed to doing so which goes back to mostly genetic reasons There's a great book, Teratopia, that is all about variegated and cristate cacti/succulents. I'd suggest reading it. It's quite expensive so here's a link with a PDF version AWESOME! thank you! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EthnoGuy85 Posted May 9, 2014 Me I've a bag of 40+ TPQC x TPM seeds Jealous 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Berengar Posted May 13, 2014 Here's my only Nitrogen hybrid! (it might be from 2011 if it's not in the first post, I'm not sure) It's a Psycho0 X cuzcoensis, beautiful plant, bluish colour, fierce spines, astonishingly fast growth, and it is the fastest rooting cactus I have ever seen! Absolutely love this cross! It was grafted on a fairly small Pereskiopsis it's first season and it grew about 50 cm in that time. After degrafting, I lost about 20 cm of it due to stupidity, but it looks like it will make up for it soon! The body really fattened up since it got it's own roots. Everyone here has very interesting plants, but I'm not really a fan of 'freaks', I'm wondering if anyone is growing the Psycho0 X N1? That to me sounds like a drool-worthy cross, I would love to see some pictures if anyone has any! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted May 13, 2014 That is beautiful! Thanks for sharing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmattz0r Posted May 13, 2014 I have some Psycho0 X N1 sowed but they are still tiny, will be doing some grafting of a few once I get some more stock so I can see the lovely spines 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Berengar Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Cant wait to see them! That cross reaally makes me wish I joined here earlier! (I appologize if it's not allowed here, but I just have to ask if anyone has a couple extra seeds of that particular cross (P0 X N1) and would be willing to trade ) Btw, just found an old photo of P0XCuzco while it was grafted. This is less than 6 months from seed, and it's about 45cm (18 inches) tall. Edited May 14, 2014 by Tangich 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites